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Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread


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On 5/20/2019 at 9:23 PM, Chopin75 said:

This may be obvious and so probably a dumb discovery as I am sure many have discovered this already. Tonight I discovered how noisy my external HDD (where the music is stored) is which when attached to  my PC actually affects the sound in quite negative way. I discovered this by accident as I suddenly found the sound of the same music file suddenly has become worse, and I realized that the only difference is I reattached the external HDD. So A/B comparison has confirmed this, with loss of space and air between notes, reduced analogue smoothness, and "harder" sound with the attached HDD, but once taken off the these issues are gone and sound becomes more "relaxed" etc...

Interestingly, even if I plug in the HDD without attaching or "mounting" the HDD to Euphony the sound still suffers. After mounting perhaps the sound gets worse (but rather subtle) compared with physically attached but not mounted.

Previously I did not notice much change probably I was using galvanic isolation device with another computer but now with this finless PC I am not using galvanic isolation device (sounds better without it) and so the HDD noise becomes more apparent. 

 

 

1 hour ago, bobfa said:

How is your HD connected?  Try USB in an external enclosure with an LPS lead powering it.  Thanks @lmitche for that tip! 

 

I was listening ant @Johnseye system and we found that the HD connected as above to his Roon Server sounded better than the NAS.  I think we are starting to get the computer noise down.

 

One thing to note about my external drive storage. The drive is powered by the sPS-500 and connects via USB to a tX-USBexp with its clock tap connected to the sCLK-EX. It does sound noticeably better than from the NAS over ethernet. 

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44 minutes ago, Superdad said:

HELP!!

 

So I have wasted a bunch of hours this holiday weekend just trying to get Euphony booted and a connection to it.  They sure have some fix-in to do.

 

Setting aside my end objective configuration I'd like to audition it in, I'm just trying to get it going at all.  No problem creating a Euphony boot USB stick using Etcher (have used that and other utils many times to make bootable Linux sticks).  But despite Euphony's indication that they support UEFI booting on Macs, here is what happens once I boot to the image--same on 3 different Macs:

 

P1090220.thumb.JPG.c3156c99a84c63ef2d49a2993f28c301.JPG

 

 

So then I figure I'd try booting this thumb drive on either my NUC or my Win10 laptop.  I can get either one to boot successfully--to the point where it says "EUPONY IS UP AND READY," please access on a web browser, etc.

 

Problem is, Euphony self-assigned itself an IP address--on a sub-net different from what my ADSL modem/router hands out.  On both machines it to 192.168.1.237.   But all addresses on my network are 192.168.8.xxx.

So of course attempting to access it from a browser does not work.

 

Suggestions anyone?

Thanks,

ALEX

 

P.S.  Regarding the Mac efivarfs/emergency shell issue, an hour ago I submitted a ticket, and now received the following reply:

 

"This is very peculiar issue with iMacs. You have to install gdisk command line utility.
http://macappstore.org/gptfdisk/
After that use gdisk /dev/disk3 (or whatever number is USB with Euphony on it) and then enter these
x
e
w
y
(Enter after every letter).
I'm writing from phone so I'll explain later what this is and why this problem occurs.

And use USB stick, not SD card because with them there is no solution at all."

 

That's nice I guess, but I replied that the issue is not just with iMac.  I at first tried two different Mac minis with same result.

 

Check your router for devices with assigned addresses. Then point a browser at that IP. 

 

I've also found that Euphony's login screen (which as we know is unaccessible) changes once its ready for a browser connection. It can take a few minutes.

 

Also if you're trying to connect multiple devices with Euphony on them you need to change the host name and use different registrations. 

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I've given Euphony a few hours over this weekend. Here's some of my initial thoughts. 

 

HQPlayer with Euphony is still a WIP.  Here's why it won't work as it should, or is at a minimum very cumbersome.  Here's some answers to my questions for Zeljko at. Euphony. 

 
I asked him how to setup a server with endpoint. Specifically with the server running HQPlayer and the endpoint as an NAA. I wanted to point HQPlayer to the NAA but my audio card is disabled.
 
I also want HQPlayer to autoselect the source Format, PCM or DSD, not set to only one or the other. 
 
His response... 
 
 " This is still slightly inconvenient. You have to have some audio card present. You can temporary enable internal audio cards in order for HQPlayer settings to show up so you can make necessary selections. NAA output for HQPlayer was a recent addition, we are still working on this..."
 
"Auto" mode is omission on our part, we will add it in next release, sorry."
 
Based on what I've heard so far with either Stylus running direct from my server to the DAC (not through the tX-USBexp as that's still hosting my external drive) and with Stylus upsampling through HQPlayer direct to the DAC, I hear a slight dimensional improvement but at a loss of smoothness.  I could guarantee you would be able to identify the digital source this way.  The digital edge is back and the dimensional improvement is so slight that it's not worth the negatives. 
 
The player GUI itself is buggy and cumbersome. I do think it's slightly better than HQPlayer's player but doesn't come close to Roons ease of use. I can see much time and frustration from using the Stylus player.
 
That said. I will be putting the 30 day trial through a lot more listening, including getting the server and NAA functioning together with HQPlayer. 
 
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5 minutes ago, luisma said:

Man if we all could live in the same state this would be so much easier :)

I'm grilling bone in ribeye here in Florida today and listening to Rodrigo and Gabriella Orion, would love to have you guys for supper 

 

They just came through Chicago. I so wanted to go but had work obligations. Next time. 

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7 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

John, what is "the loss of smoothness" in comparison to? Your reference configuration? Which is? Single server connected to DAC? Roon Core?

 

I'm just curious.

 

I recently posted it in your thread. Same sCLK-EX based ASRock server now with an sCLK-EX modified NUC, also using the sNH-10G. Mixture of SR7, HDplex LPS and Uptone LPS as the PSUs. 

 

Roon Core with HQPlayer desktop on the server. NAA on the NUC. 

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2 hours ago, austinpop said:

I notice several reports of increased harshness, loss of smoothness, and the like associated with trying Euphony on a standalone server, whether with Stylus, Roon, Roon+StylusEP, HQPlayer, Roon+HQPlayer, and Stylus+HQPlayer.

 

I've written about this myself, and it's the reason I don't consider my system finished just yet. What going to a powerful standalone system, compared to NUCs and other endpoints, gives you is big, weighty, DYNAMIC sound. However, this puts a bigger burden on the quality of the PSU on the server. And limitations of PSU quality manifest as harshness.

 

Very few of us besides @romaz have SR7 rails powering our server's ATX and EPS inputs. In my system, with the HDPlex 400W LPS powering the ATX and EPS inputs, and with an SR4-5 powering the JCAT Net Card Femto, I still find lingering harshness to be a problem.

 

My solution, and something I suggest people try, and report back - is to tune the "Max frequency" in Expert settings.

 

For example, on my server that has the i7-8700T CPU, the base frequency is 2.4GHz, and the peak is 4.2GHz. I have set the BIOS to be wide open - i.e. I've enabled Hyperthreading and Turbo. With Min and Max frequencies unspecified, Euphony's frequency hovers between 3.9 and 4.0GHz. This behavior is expected because - as confirmed by Željko - Euphony is preconfigured to use the "performance" CPU governor, so frequency is effectively pegged to the max allowed.

 

In my system, I can almost completely tame the harshness by setting the Max to 2.4GHz (or 2400MHz). Based on trial and error, I find a minimal rise in harshness up to 3200MHz, and depending on the music, I can stand to go up to 3600MHz.

 

Why bother to skirt this harshness boundary? In a word - dynamics! That is the elixir that this config provides, and I think we all have different thresholds of what we're willing to pay for it.

 

So bottom line - to those experiencing harshness with Euphony - try tuning the Max frequency and see what you think. Please report back.

 

Thanks, I'll cap the frequency and see if that helps.  Once I get things setup identically as I had with Audiolinux I'll be able to have an apples to apples comparison.

 

I could go back and use my SR7 with the HDPlex converter and power the CPU from a different rail on the SR7, which I believe is what Roy is doing now.  I'll see where some tinkering takes me first.  I had been very, very happy with my sound.  Hopefully this step back will lead to a step forward.

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18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi John,

 

Yes, definitely try that. However, keep in mind that Roy is powering the ATX and EPS from separate SR7 rails. If you only have one SR7 rail available, I believe he felt the EPS rail makes the bigger difference. Also, for this use case, these rails need to be the SR7 6A or 10A modules. I suspect an SR7 3A module will be too anemic for this purpose.

 

Yup I know. I could shift 2 SR7 rails in a single server environment. Will have to double check on the amperage of the second rail though. That could be an issue. Paul upgraded a component but not sure if I'm pulling a full 6A.

 

I did just get the HQPlayer NAA working on Euphony so I'm in business. Roon with HQPlayer on Euphony for now.  Will try that with Stylus and HQPlayer next. 

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8 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

Can you clarify what Stylus + HQplayer means? As far as I know, you can only play either Stylus or HQplayer embedded or NAA. When you play HQplayer embedded the Stylus is actually disabled and the HQplayer takes over. Do you really mean using Stylus as library management but HQplayer that actually plays the music files ?  

 

3 hours ago, sergiocurvelo said:

 

Exactly

 

In Euphony's settings, after you enable Stylus as your player, you should be able to select HQPlayer as your upsampler.  There's a limited selection of parameters provided.  You can also direct HQPlayer to an NAA in this mode.

 

Euphony uses HQPlayer Embedded.  I believe it's v4 but have not confirmed this.  There's no plan for them to use the Desktop version and it will require a separate license or else you're limited to 30 minute sessions, then need to restart the service.

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9 hours ago, Nenon said:

@Johnseye

What CPU are you using? Also, are you using the ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac motherboard?

It would be really good to hear your report with a single server solution / Euphony powered by SR7 rails. 

 

It's not the Z390, it's a Z270 chipset.  The board was modified by SoTM with the sCLK-EX.  It has no trouble upsampling DSD to 512.  The difference between the 200 and 300 series chipsets are minimal so that's not a concern for me, and it can run Optane if I need that.

 

If I do this with Euphony and use both rails to power this board, I'll need to have Ghent build me a cable.  I have some more tinkering to do with a 2 box solution before that.  I was able to smooth out the edge by getting HQPlayer to point to the NAA.  What I need to do now is put some time into listening, then swap back and forth between Euphony and AL.

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2 minutes ago, johnli said:

hi all

fascinating discussion

 

I've finally bought and  installed euphony and will compare it serious with AL again

There was a lot of hiccups for installation, and changing to a new USB stick and new M2 SSD saved the day.

 

Anyway, there is a new update just released today. I forgot to read the content and then just pressed update.

 

Any ideas what the update is about?

 

Thanks

 

Funny you should ask.  I just received this email from Željko...

 

Hi John,

Just wanted to inform you that I issued an update which fixes the issues you've mentioned:

- HQPlayer settings are always available  (you don't have to have some audio card present)

- Auto is added to selection

- If you have multiple cards on NAA you can select which one to use

 

Regards, 

Željko

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2 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Ahh...the unobtonium SR7 comes into every other discussions 🙂 You lucky chaps!.

 

Can anyone tell if the differences from other good quality PSU is like splitting hairs or the improvements are massive ? How much in terms of % are we talking about ? I am trying to guesstimate how much I am missing 🙁

 

On the other hand (and playing devil's advocate), maybe all these money spent into motherboard, CPU, chassis, Network/USB audiophile card, unobtonium SR7, expensive DC cables and endless tweaking is not worth than getting a reference server like a Auralic G2 which will mostly cost about the same. Anybody compare yet ? 

 

There are other PSUs that get close.  One of the benefits of the SR7 is that it has a higher amperage than some other supplies.  This can be a deal breaker depending on what you're trying to power.

 

I don't know what the G2 costs, but the nice thing about buying components is that you can upgrade pieces as needed instead of everything at once.

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54 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Like ? Anybody makes similar higher amperage rails that gets close ?

 

 

 

The G2 costs about $4000. Yes, I know what you are saying but if you look closely we are upgrading every component over time (yesterday it was Celeron, now its a NUC, tomorrow its an i9) - it just comes at an installment rather than one upgrade. I think the interest for most of us here is the never-ending tweaking part (be it through s/w or h/w) and delight of achieving something of our own and that is what drives this interest.

 

15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I don’t disagree. If there is an alternative to the SR7 with equal or better SQ and better availability, I want to know about it.

 

11 minutes ago, Dev said:

What I wanted to say earlier is if I can't have SR7, then its clear that I can't have the best DIY digital chain. What is my next best alternative - can it be a commercial server like a G2 whose cost would be somewhat similar to DIY server and have the same or better SQ ? If the answer is NO, then its clear that DIY is still a better path with whatever PSU you can afford. If the answer if Yes, then why not ? The question then becomes do we like tweaking more or just want to relax and enjoy the music 😊

 

You can talk to Sean Jacobs or Mattijs de Vries.  Each are involved in building PSUs for companies selling prebuilt servers.

 

As Rajiv pointed out, part of this hobby is the involvement in tweaking components and constant discovery.  Some of us just like doing that.  No harm or foul either way.  A lot of what we're trying is experimental so not a hardened, out of the box solution.

 

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6 hours ago, Superdad said:

 Did not sound near as good as AL/NAA, and I’m not looking to build an exotic server to get the best from it—especially since the Stylus player is too rudimentary for my taste (and yet Roon goes too far in the other direction for me).  I know, I am really tough to please. But I am loving the SQ I’m getting from HQ Player Embedded (on Mac mini w/JS-2) feeding NAA (on AL/NUC w/UltraCap LPS-1.2). Now I’m just trying get HQPe to scan a network shared SMB volume and I’m on the hunt for an iTunes-like front-end that works with HQPe.

 

What you're looking to do is normal, not hard to please.  I'm sure you've already tried JRiver but if you're looking for an iTunes like interface that's it.  There are some integration capabilities with it and HQPlayer, but I wish that was more like the Roon to HQPlayer experience.  Regardless, it's a great interface with a cloud music storage presence so you can listen to your collection on the go.

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3 hours ago, Balázs said:

 

All of us who aren't lucky enough to own an SR7 should try a quality power cord with the PSU. I connected an AudioQuest Dragon HC 1.5m to my HDPlex 400 (that drives my dual box Euphony source). It's worked magic on the SQ. 

 

I'm sorry, but a $7000 power cord on a $800 PSU?  Is that correct or did I miss something?

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  • 1 year later...

While I've been using Audiolinux for years I'm fairly new to Euphony and Stylus.  I typically run Roon to HQPlayer to an NAA.  I had been experimenting with HQPlayer direct and liked what I heard so I thought I'd give Euphony a try.  While I do like what I hear, I have some concerns of which hopefully there are simple answers.

 

  • How good is Euphony support?  I messaged them days ago and have heard nothing.  In contrast if I have a question for Piero at Audiolinux he responds within hours.
  • How often is Euphony updated?  HQPlayer on Euphony isn't running at the latest version with the latest filters and dither options.
  • Can HQPlayer be run as a stand alone player within Euphony or does it require another player in front and an NAA after?
  • Does HQPlayer in Euphony require a license?  I have both Embedded and Desktop 4 but not sure where to apply the license, unless it's included with Euphony.
  • Is it possible to access HQPlayer's config page from ipaddress:8088 or is that locked down and only available through Euphony?

 

 

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On 6/30/2020 at 5:02 PM, dminches said:

On a side note, I have found Euphony's tech support to be excellent and very responsive.  I have been going back and forth with Željko Vranić on my cover art issue.  He has been working OT to try to figure it out.

 

 

How do you contact Zelijko?  I sent a contact message through their contact webpage and have heard nothing back from them.

 

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13 minutes ago, cat6man said:

 

well, that makes the trial pretty useless.

can anyone confirm that ramroot is not supported in trial?

 

I was able to use ramroot in trial.

 

To further that, I also installed Euphony directly to my Optane drive using a guide provided by @Nenon a while back.  Simply put, I copied the Euphony config to an Optane drive while logged into Audiolinux.

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3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

While I've been using Audiolinux for years I'm fairly new to Euphony and Stylus.  I typically run Roon to HQPlayer to an NAA.  I had been experimenting with HQPlayer direct and liked what I heard so I thought I'd give Euphony a try.  While I do like what I hear, I have some concerns of which hopefully there are simple answers.

 

  • How good is Euphony support?  I messaged them days ago and have heard nothing.  In contrast if I have a question for Piero at Audiolinux he responds within hours.
  • How often is Euphony updated?  HQPlayer on Euphony isn't running at the latest version with the latest filters and dither options.
  • Can HQPlayer be run as a stand alone player within Euphony or does it require another player in front and an NAA after?
  • Does HQPlayer in Euphony require a license?  I have both Embedded and Desktop 4 but not sure where to apply the license, unless it's included with Euphony.
  • Is it possible to access HQPlayer's config page from ipaddress:8088 or is that locked down and only available through Euphony?

 

 

 

I received a response after creating a Euphony Support ticket.  To answer my questions:

 

  • Euphony support via the Support function appears to be quick.  Zelijko said he doesn't monitor the Contact form as often and was on holiday.
  • HQ Player is updated every 2-4 months.  Zelijko is working on incorporating 4.18 into Euphony now.
  • HQPlayer can not be used as a stand alone player within Euphony.
  • Your HQPlayer license can be added from the Main menu.
  • HQPlayer config page can be accessed from ipaddress:8089

The 2-4 month delay in getting current filters and updates from HQPlayer is concerning.  The actual HQPlayer "player" is a terrible interface, but it would have been good to know how it compares side by side on other platforms.

 

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2 hours ago, Holzohr said:

 

You can chose HQPlayer embedded under Audio systems. Is that not what you want?

I also have a HQPlayer 4 Desktop version for my Windows system and a HQPe licence I still have to transfer on my new Euphony NUC.

 

 

You can choose HQPlayer Embedded under Audio Systems but it requires an NAA. It does not play direct.

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19 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

Hmm.. no NAA needed here. I just activated my other Euphony NUC and started HQPe there. It does play direct to the DAC. There must be activated "Default output" (instead of NAA) under Output in the HQPlayer settings.

 

If using Roon or Stylus in front, then you don't need the NAA.

 

Are you using Roon or Stylus in front of HQPlayer?

 

Per Zelijko:

"You can run only HQplayer in Euphony but you have to have some sort of control program outside to feed it with songs."

 

If you're finding you can use HQPlayer without Roon, Stylus or an NAA then I'm missing something.

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8 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

Yes, I am using Roon in front of HQPlayer. I mean I feed HQPe from another Euphony NUC running Roon there. How do you want to feed HQPe with songs? 

I just opened the web interface. I guess I forgot user name and password. Do you know about them?

 

I wanted to use the native HQPlayer interface.  I am aware of the user name and password, thanks.

 

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I'm looking to do this because I heard a significant improvement by removing Roon as the source to HQPlayer.  HQPlayer direct was much better.  I need to evaluate this much further and this prompted my further look into Euphony as a platform.  I hate to eliminate Roon, but something has either changed with it or HQPlayer.

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30 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

Hi John,

 

I have attached my USB disk at the Euphony/HQPlayer NUC today. I had to switch to Stylus to mount/attach the USB disk and its music partition. /data/1.42.6-24922/ is the music partition in my case. Then I switched to HQPlayer embedded. In the web interface I typed /data/1.42.6-24922/ as library path and pushed the 'scan' button. The NUC was busy then for the next minutes scanning all the folders. I just listen via HQPlayer embedded standalone without Roon or something else in front. I use the Android app HQPDcontrol. I would have made some pics but I am in a hurry.

 

You also could try Roon together with the Stylus player. Just switch to 'Roon Core + StylusEP' and add the HQPlayer on Roon. Euphony is using the 'HQPlayer protocol' for their Stylus player then. I like this way very much.

 

Mario

 

Thank you very much Mario, I will try this and let you know how it goes.

 

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2 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

When you boot to Euphony it asks you if you want to copy files to RAM.  If you don’t answer it assumes (Y)es if the ramroot option has been selected.  However, you can quickly type “N” and it won’t write the root to RAM.

 

 

I have tried that. I press N constantly but it doesn't recognize the keystroke. 

 

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