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DeltaWave null-testing audio comparator (beta)


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6 hours ago, lucretius said:

I closed DeltaWave (version 1.0.43) and restarted it. This time, I did Process->Load Only.  Then I clicked on Play->Comparator.  Here's the result:

 

image.png.cf4893d2ef002ab08a616d0d2e5ff806.png

 

Actually, I had the same problem with DeltaWave version 1.0.40; the last working version for me was version 1.0.31.  I am using Windows 10 (version 1903).

 

Thanks!

 

I suspect this may be related to some old settings and result files hanging around causing problems. Can you please try this:

  1. Open DeltaWave. Go to Help -> Logging -> Open Log Folder menu. This will open Windows Explorer to the folder where all the DW files are stored
  2. Now that the folder is open in Explorer, exit DeltaWave (this is important!)
  3. When exited, go back to Windows Explorer in step 1 and delete all files in the DeltaWave folder that are there. This will eliminate all the old settings and results.
  4. Restart DeltaWave and see if this helps
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36 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I suspect this may be related to some old settings and result files hanging around causing problems. Can you please try this:

  1. Open DeltaWave. Go to Help -> Logging -> Open Log Folder menu. This will open Windows Explorer to the folder where all the DW files are stored
  2. Now that the folder is open in Explorer, exit DeltaWave (this is important!)
  3. When exited, go back to Windows Explorer in step 1 and delete all files in the DeltaWave folder that are there. This will eliminate all the old settings and results.
  4. Restart DeltaWave and see if this helps

 

I tried this (twice).  Unfortunately, this did not solve the issue reported.

mQa is dead!

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12 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

I tried this (twice).  Unfortunately, this did not solve the issue reported.

 

Thanks for trying!

 

Can you please confirm that the second issue you reported (when clicking Show) is still causing the error message? That particular one appears to be directly related to using some invalid old settings.

 

If you can try it one more time, please try to clean the folder again, start DW then post the screen shot of the main window (just before changing anything), and the settings window in DW? 

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28 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Thanks for trying!

 

Can you please confirm that the second issue you reported (when clicking Show) is still causing the error message? That particular one appears to be directly related to using some invalid old settings.

 

If you can try it one more time, please try to clean the folder again, start DW then post the screen shot of the main window (just before changing anything), and the settings window in DW? 

 

Cleaned folder.  Started DW again.

 

image.png.7cd467163ca8969f41524f743389ab50.png

 

Here's the setting window:

 

image.png.c890e8159fe6cfe6f91a290390d44b10.png

 

Linked reference and compare file:

 

image.png.7f5fc79fe70642e40d0dd7f8addd14d2.png

 

Clicked on Process->Load only.

 

image.png.1a86a5c74d55bc6f2e28cfa9308d8665.png

 

Clicked on Play->Comparator

 

image.png.2914a1e2db65c994fdd43d38e6d6c828.png

 

Clicked on Help->Logging->View Log

 

image.png.0d7d35dca53e2e6cf5bd0eb37f25cac4.png

 

I hope this helps.  Thanks.

 

mQa is dead!

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2 minutes ago, lucretius said:

Question.

 

When I run the Match process, I get "Residual error too large" and then I respond 'yes' in the dialog box asking if I 'd like to try alternate method. Then, everything appears to work.

 

Does this happen because the files are too large?

 

No, the files are too different. The clock drift differences are measured and then corrected, but if the result remains large, this error pops up. You can ask it not to use the alternate method, but in most cases, this will result in a poor match.

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An experimental version for your testing pleasure :)  

 

Version 1.0.45 introduces a new option to enable the alignment of simple, repetitive waveforms, such as sine-waves, multi-tone, square waves, etc. The option is enabled in settings:
 

         image.png.db207dadb767fd474ea6f5bf0d38c75c.png

 

 

The result is a better alignment of Comparison to Reference for simple test captures. For example, two 1kHz sine waves, raw, both captured with Apogee firewire audio interface in loopback mode:

image.thumb.png.e6b857859be2aff07ef81135aa5a71fa.png

 

And now aligned:

image.thumb.png.3e00f195a87e95542ab8a85d5d56133e.png

image.thumb.png.42e81cca9789a07195784b4ebcccb82a.png

 

Spectrum for the above two sine-waves:image.thumb.png.28ba26270a4f656b92b0005b634ba4b2.png

 

For single sine-wave tone captures, this also produces some measurements in the Results tab that includes THD, THD+N and Dynamic Range values for the comparison file. These numbers need to be verified, they seem to mostly match what I've been able to measure through other means (REW), but I've not done a lot of testing with different devices:

---Measurements (for a simple sine-wave only)---
Comparison DR = 106.6dB
Comparison THD+N = -108.41dB
Comparison THD   = -117.39dB
	H1 (1000Hz) = -1.4dB
	H2 (2000Hz) = -123.24dB
	H3 (3000Hz) = -118.64dB
	H4 (4000Hz) = -139.14dB
	H5 (5000Hz) = -126.02dB
	H6 (6000Hz) = -150.53dB
	H7 (7000Hz) = -139.52dB
	H9 (9000Hz) = -152.41dB

Here's an example of a multi-tone waveform, raw:

image.thumb.png.9ba161777b35e154f6c0cf95919b1366.png

 

And now aligned using the new setting:

image.thumb.png.0863ae3d2206a0cefa06fab2bf5ad0f8.png

 

Here's the spectrum of the above waveforms:

image.thumb.png.1d3e9d973549d8d326991e5352eb04a5.png

 

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25 minutes ago, TomCapraro said:

It seems to me an excellent solution.
I will do some tests by tomorrow.
Paul, for complex signals do you advise to deactivate the function since it is activated by default?

 

Deactivate this for complex signals.  Only turn this on when you know that you are measuring a simple periodic waveform.

 

When enabled, this will not do any clock drift corrections and will do a much simpler cross-correlation and offset computation to find the fractional offset. The reason is that phase slope cannot be accurately computed from a single tone or even a few tones.

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Hi Paul,

 

Please note that when dealing with pure tones results are varying depending on settings.

 

For pure tones with offset only ( same level) the best accuracy is achieved with:

 

 image.png.40f1e76336b442862b05c6dec01cbaa2.png 

 

If not DW may compute fake phase drifts or gain adjustments.

 

For pure tones with constant Time Interval Error, MATCH will crash DW 1.045.

 

Example:  sin((2*.pi*f0*t)-TIE)  fo=300Hz  TIE=10E-2

 

image.thumb.png.d5b19c86f66b4452d250dc2e619f4608.png

 

At the end for such signals I still prefer using manual corrections in DW 😉

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16 minutes ago, TomCapraro said:

Offsets that are too long are not aligned with Paul?
is there a pre-defined sample window?

sdgr.jpg

 

It's the size of single FFT frame, so should be within 64k samples or so, depending on your settings. I would recommend cutting out the extra zeros on both files. This is meant to work on periodic signals, and zero value at the front is not...

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9 minutes ago, Arpiben said:

Hi Paul,

 

Please note that when dealing with pure tones results are varying depending on settings.

 

For pure tones with offset only ( same level) the best accuracy is achieved with:

 

 image.png.40f1e76336b442862b05c6dec01cbaa2.png 

 

If not DW may compute fake phase drifts or gain adjustments.

 

For pure tones with constant Time Interval Error, MATCH will crash DW 1.045.

 

Example:  sin((2*.pi*f0*t)-TIE)  fo=300Hz  TIE=10E-2

 

image.thumb.png.d5b19c86f66b4452d250dc2e619f4608.png

 

At the end for such signals I still prefer using manual corrections in DW 😉

 

You don't have anything selected to correct? Try selecting Correct Phase Drift, as that will tell DW to make some corrections. It'll automatically skip actual drift calculation if Measure Simple Waveforms is selected. I can probably change it so selecting Measure Simple waveforms does something by itself, but right now, it'll skip all match operations if nothing else is selected.

 

Can you please post a log file for the crash?

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2 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Deactivate this for complex signals.  Only turn this on when you know that you are measuring a simple periodic waveform.

 

When enabled, this will not do any clock drift corrections and will do a much simpler cross-correlation and offset computation to find the fractional offset. The reason is that phase slope cannot be accurately computed from a single tone or even a few tones.

Paul, you say you don't use simple alignment with complex signals ... instead I get almost theoretical null results with the use of simple alignment on a pink noise loopback then comparing the digital file with the one acquired in analog.
I believe that we must always try as a valid alternative.

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37 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

You don't have anything selected to correct? Try selecting Correct Phase Drift, as that will tell DW to make some corrections. It'll automatically skip actual drift calculation if Measure Simple Waveforms is selected. I can probably change it so selecting Measure Simple waveforms does something by itself, but right now, it'll skip all match operations if nothing else is selected.

 

Can you please post a log file for the crash?

 

Check it for example with @TomCapraro 10kHz  7 samples  file:

 

-> Correct Phase Drift & Measure Simple Waveforms leads to a fake drift and a poor spectrum delta

image.thumb.png.1395d3c3de3b81568ce533018c82984f.png 

 -> ONLY Measure simple Waveforms leads to:

image.thumb.png.d1676c8e1deb178b9102467a67617098.png

 

Crash logs when dealing with TIE:

2019-09-30 00:05:33.0765|DEBUG|Wave.WaveForm|Settings: 
    Gain:False, Remove DC:False
    Non-linear Gain EQ:False    Non-linear Phase EQ: False
    EQ FFT Size:524288, EQ Frequency Cut: 0Hz - 384000Hz, EQ Threshold: -300dB
    Correct Drift:False, Precision:30
    Non-Linear drift Correction:False
    Upsample:False, Window:Hann
    Spectrum Window:Kaiser, Spectrum Size:524288
    Spectrogram Window:Kaiser, Spectrogram Size:65536, Spectrogram Steps:1024
    Dither:False
    Trim Silence:False
    Enable Simple Waveform Measurement: True

2019-09-30 00:05:33.0961|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Discarding Reference:  Start=0s, End=0s
2019-09-30 00:05:33.0961|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Discarding Comparison: Start=0s, End=0s
2019-09-30 00:05:33.1579|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|
Initial peak values Reference: 0dB   Comparison: 0dB
2019-09-30 00:05:33.1579|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Initial RMS values Reference: -3,01dB   Comparison: -3,01dB

2019-09-30 00:05:33.1689|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Null Depth=62,863dB
2019-09-30 00:05:33.1689|DEBUG|Wave.WaveForm|Progress Updating Charts, , 20%
2019-09-30 00:05:33.2477|DEBUG|Wave.WaveForm|Progress Cross-correlation, , 35%
2019-09-30 00:10:01.9045|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|DeltaWave 1.0.45.0 starting up
2019-09-30 00:10:02.1076|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Adding driver: [WASAPI]{0.0.0.00000000}.{f8793d52-f284-4752-bb2d-81282ff74d5b} | [WASAPI] Speaker/HP (Realtek High Definition Audio) 48000/32
2019-09-30 00:10:02.1232|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Current driver: [WASAPI]{0.0.0.00000000}.{f8793d52-f284-4752-bb2d-81282ff74d5b}
2019-09-30 00:10:02.2794|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Adding driver: [WASAPI]{0.0.0.00000000}.{f8793d52-f284-4752-bb2d-81282ff74d5b} | [WASAPI] Speaker/HP (Realtek High Definition Audio) 48000/32
2019-09-30 00:10:02.2794|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|Current driver: [WASAPI]{0.0.0.00000000}.{f8793d52-f284-4752-bb2d-81282ff74d5b}
2019-09-30 00:10:02.3106|DEBUG|Wave.WaveForm|TaskStart: Interactive=False
2019-09-30 00:10:02.3575|DEBUG|Wave.WaveForm|Settings: 

 

 

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