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DeltaWave null-testing audio comparator (beta)


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1 hour ago, Arpiben said:

 

When curves are not matched delta phase and phase values in result tab have discrepancies. Not a big deal, but I would like to understand why. In Result tab phase is provided for a range 0 Hz- 10 kHz for example. Result may be 0.2° when inband phase noise can have values greater than 5° or more. Result may be 0.2° when delta phase curve indicates 0.5° at 10.000 kHz. 

 

Drift plot shows corrected red curve when no correction applied in Result tab or logs, why?drift.thumb.jpg.32ffa4cff0098145d0382644cf592384.jpg

Ex:

 

 

I'm not sure I understand the question. There's no drift correction in the above plot. The constant phase offset was adjusted to bring the overall phase difference closer to zero, that's all I see there.

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2 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand the question. There's no drift correction in the above plot. The constant phase offset was adjusted to bring the overall phase difference closer to zero, that's all I see there.

 

You are perfectly right. I mix up things with the drift correction curve. My apologies Paul.

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Just noticed the recent files list under file menu.  That is very handy.  Is this new to 29 or did I just miss it in earlier editions?

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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7 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Added in .27, I believe.

Sounds about right.  I asked for something like that.  Thanks.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Have updated to 1.0.29, and just noticed that the resampling setting is not being respected - have two 44.1k files and want to resample to 176.4k - which DW refuses to do. Tried a few things, including restarting DW - no go!!

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Still have the problem that Manual Corrections ignores the offset value at times; the Matching panel is essentially identical to the Original - and Cache File Data is the culprit, it appears.

 

Yes, unchecking that restores sanity ...

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When playing the tracks, and switching between them, the volume settings set previously are not remembered. So, play Reference, play Matched and adjust level so volume is roughly comparable, again switch to Reference, then play Matched - the Matched level has been lost.

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45 minutes ago, fas42 said:

When playing the tracks, and switching between them, the volume settings set previously are not remembered. So, play Reference, play Matched and adjust level so volume is roughly comparable, again switch to Reference, then play Matched - the Matched level has been lost.

I've been seeing the same issue.  You can adjust the digital gain and if you switch back and forth it isn't where you left it, and it isn't where you had it on the other track.   Seems to stick on the value when you select play for that track the first time. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Should this be happening:  First is original spectra:

image.thumb.png.75ed467f2211c099c677dc358c4f3ea5.png

 

Then when I display Matched spectra look at the lower right where it looks like lots of noise is added to the Compare spectra.  

 

image.thumb.png.2ebd7eb64bb66434a3b0849203362e30.png

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Other odd behavior with Archimago's  files.   Notice how after matching there is a big hump in the compare spectra.  And much noise at frequencies above 20 khz.  These are 96 khz files. 

 

image.thumb.png.8f869818d2379baa507853381a105889.png

 

image.thumb.png.e30ca1965f9c58e71824a6c46d3b88ae.png

 

image.thumb.png.eda7588fa789d07533e0b08f87ab3897.png

 

Now I will swap Ref and Compare files.  Notice how the original spectra looks as expected for swapping the files.  But after matching the Compare file again gets high frequency noise and you get the same hump around 20.4 hz.  If this hump were real you'd expect it to become a dip once swapped.  It doesn't.  This seems to be happening whenever the files are 30+ ppm different in speed.  Files which are less than 4 ppm different aren't doing this.  No added high frequency noise and the delta spectra is very close to flat.  No big hump at 20 hz. 

image.thumb.png.2e1264496b1c00256619525a0d73f382.png

 

image.thumb.png.7ab0cc564c31201db3524b7b796f1c48.png

 

image.thumb.png.038737f15b4ad3859af743ba9eb89cad.png

 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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I took the fast file above and slowed it 30 ppm in Audacity and retested.  Notice the high frequency noise is much less and no 20 hz hump.  Also notice the difference RMS is now 9 db lower. 

 

image.thumb.png.6dd3f6ef1188f1a971922c76a4f5143f.png

 

Now this isn't new.  I went back to v 26b and it also puts the high frequency noise and the 20 hz hump in there with the greater than 30 ppm speed difference.  However, it only managed a poor match rather than good or very good.  And the difference RMS with the large ppm difference was worse by 27 db instead of only 9 db worse.  So v 30b handles all this better than the prior versions. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Again while working with Archimago's files I'm finding in nearly every case the sample offset can be done manually to 1 or 2 or sometimes more samples and get a better match. As if the sample offset has a problem or something about these files is causing a hiccup.  The results improve when you do this.  This btw is working on samples I've changed speed upon to get it less than 10 ppm different.  It happens with the unchanged version as well.  The change in speed by Deltawave seems on the money, but then it applies a wrong offset.  

 

When I use other files I'm not having this problem.  I've been trimming one or two seconds off the front which helps some.  But still the wrong offset is a persistent problem.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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16 hours ago, esldude said:

Should this be happening:  First is original spectra:

image.thumb.png.75ed467f2211c099c677dc358c4f3ea5.png

 

Then when I display Matched spectra look at the lower right where it looks like lots of noise is added to the Compare spectra.  

 

image.thumb.png.2ebd7eb64bb66434a3b0849203362e30.png

 

That's usually a side-effect of the spectrum display selection (FFT size and window). Try switching them to see if this goes away. 

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3 hours ago, esldude said:

Again while working with Archimago's files I'm finding in nearly every case the sample offset can be done manually to 1 or 2 or sometimes more samples and get a better match. As if the sample offset has a problem or something about these files is causing a hiccup.  The results improve when you do this.  This btw is working on samples I've changed speed upon to get it less than 10 ppm different.  It happens with the unchanged version as well.  The change in speed by Deltawave seems on the money, but then it applies a wrong offset.  

 

When I use other files I'm not having this problem.  I've been trimming one or two seconds off the front which helps some.  But still the wrong offset is a persistent problem.  

 

I'll play around with these files. One issue I can imagine that might cause this is the difference between the clocks (or waveforms in general) near the beginning, where the DAC (or the ADC) may have some trouble synchronizing with the source. But I'll take a look.

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16 hours ago, esldude said:

Other odd behavior with Archimago's  files.   Notice how after matching there is a big hump in the compare spectra.  And much noise at frequencies above 20 khz.  These are 96 khz files. 

 

image.thumb.png.8f869818d2379baa507853381a105889.png

 

image.thumb.png.e30ca1965f9c58e71824a6c46d3b88ae.png

 

image.thumb.png.eda7588fa789d07533e0b08f87ab3897.png

 

Now I will swap Ref and Compare files.  Notice how the original spectra looks as expected for swapping the files.  But after matching the Compare file again gets high frequency noise and you get the same hump around 20.4 hz.  If this hump were real you'd expect it to become a dip once swapped.  It doesn't.  This seems to be happening whenever the files are 30+ ppm different in speed.  Files which are less than 4 ppm different aren't doing this.  No added high frequency noise and the delta spectra is very close to flat.  No big hump at 20 hz. 

image.thumb.png.2e1264496b1c00256619525a0d73f382.png

 

image.thumb.png.7ab0cc564c31201db3524b7b796f1c48.png

 

image.thumb.png.038737f15b4ad3859af743ba9eb89cad.png

 

 

Was this with all the files, or a specific one? Can you please post the Results text from the comparison where this problem occurs?

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17 hours ago, fas42 said:

When playing the tracks, and switching between them, the volume settings set previously are not remembered. So, play Reference, play Matched and adjust level so volume is roughly comparable, again switch to Reference, then play Matched - the Matched level has been lost.

 

Looks like a problem with the 'continuous' play feature when pressing play while another track is playing. If you first click in the file name text box for the corresponding file that's playing and then change the volume, it'll stick. But if you just press the play button, it loses track as to which volume setting to update. I'll fix it.

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4 hours ago, esldude said:

Again while working with Archimago's files I'm finding in nearly every case the sample offset can be done manually to 1 or 2 or sometimes more samples and get a better match. As if the sample offset has a problem or something about these files is causing a hiccup.  The results improve when you do this.  This btw is working on samples I've changed speed upon to get it less than 10 ppm different.  It happens with the unchanged version as well.  The change in speed by Deltawave seems on the money, but then it applies a wrong offset.  

 

When I use other files I'm not having this problem.  I've been trimming one or two seconds off the front which helps some.  But still the wrong offset is a persistent problem.  

 

Just to echo Dennis's findings here - manual correction makes a better fist of things so many times, and it's the offset that is quite obviously out, just from eyeballing in the Matched panel. Merely by adjusting by the displacement observed in the visuals, a far improved alignment is achieved - this should be detectable by the software, and used for fine tuning matching.

 

On another note, have you had any thoughts on trying to compensate for non-uniform group delay, Paul?

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37 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Was this with all the files, or a specific one? Can you please post the Results text from the comparison where this problem occurs?

It occurs with Wild World and Le Mal de Vivre.  Not with the others.  It happens any time you compare files from device A or B with files from device C or D.  The difference being those pairs of devices are off by 30 ppm in speed.  

 

I'll run a couple and post results in a minute.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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16 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Just to echo Dennis's findings here - manual correction makes a better fist of things so many times, and it's the offset that is quite obviously out, just from eyeballing in the Matched panel. Merely by adjusting by the displacement observed in the visuals, a far improved alignment is achieved - this should be detectable by the software, and used for fine tuning matching.

 

On another note, have you had any thoughts on trying to compensate for non-uniform group delay, Paul?

I don't know what about these files are causing this, but I don't think a single comparison I've made of Arch's files couldn't be improved up, and it was like Frank by looking at the Matched panel and adjust sample offset.  I think the closest pair was off by a half sample.  DW did report less than excellent matching, but the report was obviously off.  Most of them required 1.5 to 2.5 samples adjustment to get fairly close.  While DW was reporting matching of a few microseconds.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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DeltaWave v1.0.30, 2019-05-25T17:39:22.1212785-05:00
Reference:  D - Wild World.flac[L] 8632320 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Comparison: A - Wild World.flac[L] 8603648 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Settings: 
    Gain:True, Remove DC:True
    Non-linear Gain:False    EQ FFT Size:65536, EQ Frequency Cut: 0Hz - 0Hz, EQ Threshold: -144dB
    Correct Drift:True, Precision:30
    Upsample:False, Window:Hann
    Spectrum Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrum Size:65536
    Spectrogram Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrogram Size:4096, Spectrogram Steps:4096
    Dither:False
    Trim Silence:False

Discarding Reference:  Start=1s, End=0s
Discarding Comparison: Start=1s, End=0s

Initial peak values Reference: -3.524dB   Comparison: -3.675dB
Initial RMS values Reference: -21.166dB   Comparison: -21.228dB

Null Depth=13.249dB
X-Correlation offset: 19436 samples
Drift computation quality, #1: Very Good (3.2μs)


Trimmed 0 samples ( 0.00ms) front, 0 samples ( 0.00ms end)


Final peak values Reference: -3.524dB   Comparison: -3.696dB
Final RMS values Reference: -21.152dB   Comparison: -21.527dB

Gain= -0.0141dB (0.9984x) DC=0 Phase offset=202.42604ms (19432.9 samples)
Difference (rms) = -40.1dB [-43.41dBA]
Correlated Null Depth=49.94dB [46.49dBA]
Clock drift: 34.04 ppm


Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=0.39%) at 16 bits
Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=0%) at 24 bits
Files match @ 49.8314% when reduced to 7.9 bits


Phase difference (full bandwidth): 56.9339737829184°
                 0-10,000Hz: 51.2363600701568°
                 0-20,000Hz: 46.3402721189724°
                 0-24,000Hz: 42.7987677217951°
                 0-44,100Hz: 49.1013869160931°
                 0-48,000Hz: 56.9339737829184°
RMS of the difference of spectra: -85.9040973299296dB
gn=1.00162980674891, dc=0, dr=3.4043283E-05, of=19432.8998709808

DONE!

Signature: 8f9775968324c5ea0800c85c7cd86010

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the results page after I slowed the compare file by 30 ppm in Audacity.

 

 

 


DeltaWave v1.0.30, 2019-05-25T17:43:24.6607925-05:00
Reference:  D - Wild World.flac[L] 8632320 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Comparison: A - Wild World 30 ppm slo.wav[L] 8607744 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Settings: 
    Gain:True, Remove DC:True
    Non-linear Gain:False    EQ FFT Size:65536, EQ Frequency Cut: 0Hz - 0Hz, EQ Threshold: -144dB
    Correct Drift:True, Precision:30
    Upsample:False, Window:Hann
    Spectrum Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrum Size:65536
    Spectrogram Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrogram Size:4096, Spectrogram Steps:4096
    Dither:False
    Trim Silence:False

Discarding Reference:  Start=1s, End=0s
Discarding Comparison: Start=1s, End=0s

Initial peak values Reference: -3.524dB   Comparison: -3.676dB
Initial RMS values Reference: -21.166dB   Comparison: -21.23dB

Null Depth=12.872dB
X-Correlation offset: 19174 samples
Drift computation quality, #1: Very Good (3.19μs)


Trimmed 0 samples ( 0.00ms) front, 0 samples ( 0.00ms end)


Final peak values Reference: -3.524dB   Comparison: -3.619dB
Final RMS values Reference: -21.154dB   Comparison: -21.16dB

Gain= -0.0705dB (0.9919x) DC=0 Phase offset=199.730718ms (19174.149 samples)
Difference (rms) = -50dB [-51.37dBA]
Correlated Null Depth=67.7dB [59.63dBA]
Clock drift: 4.04 ppm


Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=0.77%) at 16 bits
Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=0%) at 24 bits
Files match @ 50.0236% when reduced to 9.13 bits


Phase difference (full bandwidth): 67.9870733957844°
                 0-10,000Hz: 47.0054070231397°
                 0-20,000Hz: 53.1728675007677°
                 0-24,000Hz: 51.0500276878744°
                 0-44,100Hz: 61.2338399403019°
                 0-48,000Hz: 67.9870733957844°
RMS of the difference of spectra: -99.1337192307866dB
gn=1.00815142657064, dc=-5.03102378887611E-07, dr=4.043046E-06, of=19174.1489148799

DONE!

Signature: cffdb2191784694eb0b488d37613666a

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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DeltaWave v1.0.30, 2019-05-25T17:49:47.5576642-05:00
Reference:  D - Le Mal de Vivre.flac[L] 11372544 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Comparison: A - Le Mal de Vivre.flac[L] 11345920 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Settings: 
    Gain:True, Remove DC:True
    Non-linear Gain:False    EQ FFT Size:65536, EQ Frequency Cut: 0Hz - 0Hz, EQ Threshold: -144dB
    Correct Drift:True, Precision:30
    Upsample:False, Window:Hann
    Spectrum Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrum Size:65536
    Spectrogram Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrogram Size:4096, Spectrogram Steps:4096
    Dither:False
    Trim Silence:False

Discarding Reference:  Start=1s, End=0s
Discarding Comparison: Start=1s, End=0s

Initial peak values Reference: -5.452dB   Comparison: -5.533dB
Initial RMS values Reference: -27.759dB   Comparison: -27.834dB

Null Depth=12.969dB
X-Correlation offset: 2243 samples
Drift computation quality, #1: Excellent (1.94μs)


Trimmed 0 samples ( 0.00ms) front, 0 samples ( 0.00ms end)


Final peak values Reference: -5.452dB   Comparison: -6.059dB
Final RMS values Reference: -27.753dB   Comparison: -28.508dB

Gain= -0.0216dB (0.9975x) DC=0 Phase offset=23.360081ms (2242.568 samples)
Difference (rms) = -41.87dB [-45.68dBA]
Correlated Null Depth=49.56dB [47.91dBA]
Clock drift: 33.43 ppm


Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=1.51%) at 16 bits
Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=0.01%) at 24 bits
Files match @ 49.9952% when reduced to 9.77 bits


Phase difference (full bandwidth): 14.325946548039°
                 0-10,000Hz: 30.9893568280198°
                 0-20,000Hz: 21.9136267540084°
                 0-24,000Hz: 20.0043175321093°
                 0-44,100Hz: 15.4674957741854°
                 0-48,000Hz: 14.325946548039°
RMS of the difference of spectra: -90.7331214410073dB
gn=1.00248986443164, dc=0, dr=3.3427834E-05, of=2242.5677322559

DONE!

Signature: 576ee699452108901c278f3cae331ded

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And after the compare file is slowed 30 ppm in Audacity.

 

 

 


DeltaWave v1.0.30, 2019-05-25T17:52:04.1875662-05:00
Reference:  D - Le Mal de Vivre.flac[L] 11372544 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Comparison: A - Le Mal de Vivre 30 ppm slo.wav[L] 11347968 samples 96000Hz 24bits, stereo, MD5=00
Settings: 
    Gain:True, Remove DC:True
    Non-linear Gain:False    EQ FFT Size:65536, EQ Frequency Cut: 0Hz - 0Hz, EQ Threshold: -144dB
    Correct Drift:True, Precision:30
    Upsample:False, Window:Hann
    Spectrum Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrum Size:65536
    Spectrogram Window:BlackmanHarris, Spectrogram Size:4096, Spectrogram Steps:4096
    Dither:False
    Trim Silence:False

Discarding Reference:  Start=1s, End=0s
Discarding Comparison: Start=1s, End=0s

Initial peak values Reference: -5.452dB   Comparison: -5.533dB
Initial RMS values Reference: -27.759dB   Comparison: -27.834dB

Null Depth=12.37dB
X-Correlation offset: 1983 samples
Drift computation quality, #1: Excellent (1.96μs)


Trimmed 0 samples ( 0.00ms) front, 0 samples ( 0.00ms end)


Final peak values Reference: -5.452dB   Comparison: -5.458dB
Final RMS values Reference: -27.754dB   Comparison: -27.754dB

Gain= -0.0814dB (0.9907x) DC=0 Phase offset=20.664762ms (1983.817 samples)
Difference (rms) = -67.71dB [-70.66dBA]
Correlated Null Depth=62.25dB [67.05dBA]
Clock drift: 3.43 ppm


Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=2.91%) at 16 bits
Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=0.01%) at 24 bits
Files match @ 50.0138% when reduced to 11.55 bits


Phase difference (full bandwidth): 16.384616820212°
                 0-10,000Hz: 32.908195994264°
                 0-20,000Hz: 23.2704649991824°
                 0-24,000Hz: 21.2429381052507°
                 0-44,100Hz: 16.5065687228965°
                 0-48,000Hz: 16.384616820212°
RMS of the difference of spectra: -107.768135993824dB
gn=1.00942107360986, dc=-7.40238420226983E-08, dr=3.427331E-06, of=1983.8171867867

DONE!

Signature: 8eecca28795323158082ffd08726549e

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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