Shootout at the Linux Corral: AudioLinux vs Euphony

[Dev]

Roon UI is what is preventing me from using Stylus as well, though Stylus sounds better than Roon.

 

So far I have ditched the 2-pc setup and settled on a single NUC running AL and Roon + Squeezelite + Wifi combo. I am experimenting with the latest Euphony update but unable to get Roon + StylusEP working. Oddly, Roon + Squeezelite works flawlessly and Wifi as well.

[rickca]

Roon is designed as an end-to-end solution, isn't it ...  with the RAAT protocol and Roon Ready endpoints?  Yet many people are reporting that Squeezelite or EuphonyEP sounds better on the endpoint.  Too bad you can't buy just the UI.  But that would mess up the whole partner ecosystem.  Reminds me of MQA.

[Dev]

All you can do at this point to get the best of both worlds is to use Roon as the UI/Library mangement and Squeezelite/StylusEP/HQP as the playback. A bit expensive solution but works 🙂

[Dev]

Did anyone try Roon + StylusEP on a single PC with the latest update ?

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Did anyone try Roon + StylusEP on a single PC with the latest update ?

It does not work.  My USB Device  is disabled.  Took logs and screenshots and sent them off for review. 

 

[Dev]

11 minutes ago, bobfa said:

It does not work.  My USB Device  is disabled.  Took logs and screenshots and sent them off for review. 

 

 

If you are using StylusEP (which was my original question), then the USB device will be disabled in Roon since only one application will need exclusive access to it. In this case, you need to enable Squeezebox support and then select StylusEP from audio device.

[bobfa]

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

If you are using StylusEP (which was my original question), then the USB device will be disabled in Roon since only one application will need exclusive access to it. In this case, you need to enable Squeezebox support and then select StylusEP from audio device.

I am trying right now with Roon Core running on the single box.  The only output device I can run is roon.  I cannot run squeezlite or stylusEP.  Yes i have the squeezelite "switch" turned on.

 

 

[Dev]

I am just able to make it work (along w/ debugging with Željko). In the Roon's StylusEP audio device, make sure that the "Use FLAC Compression" flag is checked.

[Dev]

@bobfa Can you post Roon settings screen dump ? I am not able to understand where you are stuck.

 

This is what I did:

 

1. Select Roon + StylusEP in Euphony

2. Enable Squeezebox Roon -> Settings -> Enable Squeezebox support

3. Select StylusEP as Roon's audio device Roon -> Settings -> Audio (StylusEP is listed in the end) and make sure Flac compression is checked.

 

[mriguy]

I'm running the latest Euphony in Roon/StylusEP mode from a USB stick on a single NUCi3 and with all music files on a networked MacMIni. It sounds great and is it is a clear improvement over my previous single-NUC Roon/Stylus (standard) configuration. I'm so happy with Euphony! I looked at my "Use Flac Compression Flag" and it was set to On (in my case by default).

[bobfa]

5 hours ago, Dev said:

@bobfa Can you post Roon settings screen dump ? I am not able to understand where you are stuck.

 

This is what I did:

 

1. Select Roon + StylusEP in Euphony

2. Enable Squeezebox Roon -> Settings -> Enable Squeezebox support

3. Select StylusEP as Roon's audio device Roon -> Settings -> Audio (StylusEP is listed in the end) and make sure Flac compression is checked.

 

I was trying to connect direct I did not scroll down to find stylus EP!   My bad.

[bobfa]

There is a new release of Euphony today that fixes the issue where running WiFi only caused the machine to lose licensing.  I have updated to that release and I will proceed to the testing with WiFi.  I have my spreadsheet updated and will put that on here somehow.  

 

 

[Dev]

I tried Euphony earlier a month back or so but moved to AL setup primarily due to lack of Wifi. Ever since then and after lot of experimentation I have moved to single i7 NUC setup running AL in ramroot with Roon + Squeezelite combo on Wifi. This setup has sounded very good in my system and exceeds that of 2 NUC solution with server and streamer combo. Upon request to Željko, he promised to have it supported in his next release and he kept it. My trial has also expired in between but Željko was graciously kind enough to extend it some more just this time. Moreover the StylusEP which replaces Squeezelite has been enthralling and I had to try the new release.

 

Well, the latest Euphony update has been fantastic in my system. From limited listening that I had done so far, the SQ of Roon + StylusEP is a big step forward - a bit more holographic sound, more air around vocals and instruments, slightly more depth. I had to redo my speaker positioning a bit to take more advantage of it. I am also on Wifi which is not in the critical audio signal path. As a single box solution, it's simplicity is what makes it more interesting and appealing to me.

 

Still more comparisons to do - Wired vs wifi, Stylus vs StylusEP, etc but so far I am very impressed.

 

Will report back as I do more listening.

[lateboomer]

10 hours ago, Dev said:

I tried Euphony earlier a month back or so but moved to AL setup primarily due to lack of Wifi. Ever since then and after lot of experimentation I have moved to single i7 NUC setup running AL in ramroot with Roon + Squeezelite combo on Wifi. This setup has sounded very good in my system and exceeds that of 2 NUC solution with server and streamer combo. Upon request to Željko, he promised to have it supported in his next release and he kept it. My trial has also expired in between but Željko was graciously kind enough to extend it some more just this time. Moreover the StylusEP which replaces Squeezelite has been enthralling and I had to try the new release.

 

Well, the latest Euphony update has been fantastic in my system. From limited listening that I had done so far, the SQ of Roon + StylusEP is a big step forward - a bit more holographic sound, more air around vocals and instruments, slightly more depth. I had to redo my speaker positioning a bit to take more advantage of it. I am also on Wifi which is not in the critical audio signal path. As a single box solution, it's simplicity is what makes it more interesting and appealing to me.

 

Still more comparisons to do - Wired vs wifi, Stylus vs StylusEP, etc but so far I am very impressed.

 

Will report back as I do more listening.

 

Where do you store the music library? Is it external usb hdd connected to the i7 NUC? What type of hdd and is it powered from external PS and not from usb bus?

[Dev]

12 hours ago, lateboomer said:

 

Where do you store the music library? Is it external usb hdd connected to the i7 NUC? What type of hdd and is it powered from external PS and not from usb bus?

 

yes, I am using external USB 3.0 w/ 4Tb WD Red 3.5" drive powered by lps connected to the NUC i7.

[lateboomer]

42 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

yes, I am using external USB 3.0 w/ 4Tb WD Red 3.5" drive powered by lps connected to the NUC i7.

Is 3.5" drive a desktop hdd and also spinning type? Is it not more noisy than a ssd drive?

[sergiocurvelo]

I already have an UltraRendu. And I use another computer as a server. Which version of Euphony should I buy? I also use Roon Server and HQ Player emb.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, lateboomer said:

Is 3.5" drive a desktop hdd and also spinning type? Is it not more noisy than a ssd drive?

 

Not sure I understand. To my knowledge, all 3.5" drives are desktop and spinning type. I need something close to 4tb to hold my music library and SSD's that large are still quiet expensive. I have a 2tb one which I will compare at some point to see if they make difference.

However, if I connect one output of Uptone JS-2 to the external USB drive and another output to the NUC i7, I can clearly hear the spinning noise when I put my ear close to the speaker. To get past it, I use a separate lps just for the external drive. I am wondering if the hdplex 200w with isolated rails will solve this or not - if it does, I can replace two lps with one.    

[Nenon]

31 minutes ago, sergiocurvelo said:

I already have an UltraRendu. And I use another computer as a server. Which version of Euphony should I buy? I also use Roon Server and HQ Player emb.

 

When you buy Euphony, it only has one license. That's the license you need to get.

There are different ways how you can configure Euphony after you get a license. You would have to try for yourself what works best, but so far Roon + StylusEP seems to be the winner for Roon users.

But you can get a 30 day trial on a USB stick before you buy it.

[bobfa]

This thread has turned to something different for me.  It has turned into a  mission to standardize my setup for simplicity.

 

 I have been refining my systems design over the past few weeks and both AL and Euphony have been providing regular updates. Everything is now working as I want it to. Here is a quick outline of the system cleanup and testing I have done to prepare for the shootout.

My home network is now on all Ubiquity Unfi hardware.  The 24 port switch has two fiber ports.  One port connects to my server, and the other connects to my endpoint.  The FMC devices are connected powered linear power supplies.  I have upgraded Ethernet cables from the FMC to the end devices.  Both AL and Euphony can now use WiFi and appear stable.  I have a dedicated SSID for the system that only broadcasts on 5Hgz.

 

• I have conducted multiple tests over the last couple of weeks, and I cannot hear a difference from my server when it is bridged and directly connected to the endpoint.  I think that the switch may have made a difference.
• I had previously tested my NAS vs. External HD over USB. After an evening at @johnseye and listening to his system with the USB upgrades, I see that there is a possibility here to improve further.  As of now, the NAS is where I am keeping my music.  I have not been able to hear a difference in my system.
• I have both Fiber and Ethernet cables running from the basement to the living room.

 

I can boot AL from USB and run in RAM on my i7 NUC endpoint. The 32GB Optane card in the endpoint is where I have Euphony installed.  The endpoint can swap simply between OS and audio software.

 

The server is “fixed,” it is running Euphony and Roon server.  The server has bridging turned on as needed. 

 

I have a set of three tracks I am using to evaluate these configurations

 

 

 

I went through all the tracks multiple times with each setup.  I can swap systems designs using a Web Browser on my iPad in the listening chair. The average swap time is about 40 seconds. 

 

The Tiebreaker for me is between dual system Roon w/StylusEP on the endpoint and single box Stylus. Today after about three hours of listening pointing me to the dual system as best I found that taking a 2-hour break and then coming back to listen to track "Artifacture" by BT on his untitled album.  Just listen to the segment from 6:00 to about 7:00 a couple of times.

 

 

If I had never built the server and had been running a single box system I could have been satisfied.  I have not gotten to endpoint re-clocking, I am not using my TLS switch.  I am sure that I could optimize AudioLinux further.

 

Here is my current status:

 

SW for endpoint	Notes	"Results"
AudioLinux	V 1.3- menu 118 ramroot, boot extreme,operate extreme
Roon Bridge		I used to think this was great
SL Default		This told me that Roon Bridge is not as good as it could be
SL w Large Buffer	Not tested yet
Euphony	Running 3.0 the 0520 release
Roon Bridge		This is better than the AL setup. more space, depth.
SL Default		This takes us up a couple of notches, the depth and "blackness" improve.
SL w Large Buffer	Not tested yet
Stylus EP		The stage opens up the music is expansive and there is much more detail. This is still the best I have done BUT have not spent enough time on the standalone setup.
Stand Alone Testing	I do not pay attention to this to start with... I should have.
Roon	Skipping for now.
Roon +SL	Skipping for now.
Roon +SL large Buffer	Skipping for now.
Roon + Stylus EP		I am having a very hard time telling the difference between this and Stylus!
Stylus		This is very close to the dual box, but I still fall behind on expanse and depth.

[bobfa]

I have more to test.  I am going to narrow the matrix down and I am going to put the endpoint on WiFi.  I will be skipping the Squeezelite testing where I am using Euphony OS as their StylusEP outperforms the rest.

 

 

[HeeBroG]

Hi Bob,

 

I take it the best sound so far requires 2 Euphony licences; one for server and the other for endpoint running Stylus EP?

 

Geoff

[bobfa]

38 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

Hi Bob,

 

I take it the best sound so far requires 2 Euphony licences; one for server and the other for endpoint running Stylus EP?

 

Geoff

In my systems design with a NUC endpoint and a custom built Xeon server I have found that Euphony sounds best to me.  

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, bobfa said:

In my systems design with a NUC endpoint and a custom built Xeon server I have found that Euphony sounds best to me.  

Thanks for all your great work on this @bobfa  are you running 

Server: Euphony/Roon/

Endpoint: Euphony/StylusEp

Means we would need 2 licences to get your best SQ?

 

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks for all your great work on this @bobfa  are you running 

Server: Euphony/Roon/

Endpoint: Euphony/StylusEp

Means we would need 2 licences to get your best SQ?

 

 

I think it is also possible to run AL roon/ LMS on the server. Wouldn't make much difference I think. That what I planned to do.