Shootout at the Linux Corral: AudioLinux vs Euphony

[jkelly]

After switching from AL to the Euphony trial,
I continue to like the Euphony sound on my headphone system.
I have elected to use my 12v Atom DN2800MT motherboard,
which only has enough horsepower to upsample Roon/Tidal
44.1K to 352.8K.  

 

That is not a problem since I like to keep PCM...PCM. 

No big deal since the Holo Spring level 3 dac does an 
amazing job with PCM.

 

I am listening on HD650 headphones 
via a Bottlehead Crack with mods and NOS tubes.

When I tried Euphony after AL, I was struck with the fullness
of the sound, the increased bass and the wide, detailed soundstage
I experienced in my headphones.

 

With all the benefits of Euphony, I was a little put back by
the price.  So I wanted to check out other linux audio distros.
I tried both Volumio with local files and SnakeOil OS with Roon.
IMHO, both have more low end than AL.  Volumio's soundstage wasn't
as wide as Euphony. SnakeOil OS has less highs and a narrower
soundstage.  To me, Euphony bested them easily.

 

So this week I am going to do a Euphony vs AL final decision.
At this point I continue to be impressed with Euphony.

[LTG2010]

12 minutes ago, jkelly said:

So this week I am going to do a Euphony vs AL final decision.
At this point I continue to be impressed with Euphony.

If you want to level the playing field a bit you can disable alsa mixer in audiolinux as this degrades sound quality, (its already disabled in euphony) See audiolinux server configurations thread page 13, especially if comparing Roon on both systems.

If you want to compare the stylus player, then you can use ''mpd select dac and playback from memory'' in audiolinux.

[bobfa]

18 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

If you want to level the playing field a bit you can disable alsa mixer in audiolinux as this degrades sound quality, (its already disabled in euphony) See audiolinux server configurations thread page 13, especially if comparing Roon on both systems.

If you want to compare the stylus player, then you can use ''mpd select dac and playback from memory'' in audiolinux.

I really want to try that also!!

[Dev]

56 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

If you want to level the playing field a bit you can disable alsa mixer in audiolinux as this degrades sound quality, (its already disabled in euphony) See audiolinux server configurations thread page 13, especially if comparing Roon on both systems.

If you want to compare the stylus player, then you can use ''mpd select dac and playback from memory'' in audiolinux.

 

@LTG2010 If you are running in Roonserver/Roonbridge combo, do you need to disable the alsa mixer on server as well ? Shouldn't disabling in the streamer be sufficient ?

[LTG2010]

5 hours ago, Dev said:

 

@LTG2010 If you are running in Roonserver/Roonbridge combo, do you need to disable the alsa mixer on server as well ? Shouldn't disabling in the streamer be sufficient ?

I would disable both, on my setup I'm running just server to my dacs network card and the difference is not subtle. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts when you try it.

[Poldi]

Some time ago I wrote in the Audiolinux thread that after comparing my sMS-200 neo with my NUCPJYH with Audiolinux headless in ramroot that in sum I liked the sMS-200 a bit more because it seemed to sound more natural to me.

 

Since then I have tried Euphony on the NUC and compared it to the sMS-200 (both playing files from Qobuz and both units powered by a HDPLEX 200W linear power supply at 19V and 12V respectively [old version]).

 

The NUC is in a totally different league than the sMS-200. Much bigger and deeper soundstage that makes tracks sound more realistic and involving. So there is no real competition. But the sMS-200 is still a bit warmer sounding (perhaps due to a rolloff in the treble?). So in a perfect world, I'd like to have all that the NUC has to offer soundwise but add a little more weight in the lower mids to give for example guitars a little more weight.

To make matters worse I recently exchanged my Meicord Opal ethernet cable with a Viablue EP-7 with Telegärtner plugs. To my ears it is a lot better than the Meicord  (much better soundstage and more details, more natural). But is also brighter than the Meicord. While it is not sounding digital or harsh in any way, I could have used a ethernet cable with a more meaty sound to level out the sound signature of my NUC.

So my guess is right now, that I might go for the NUC7i7DN as it's said to sound fuller than the NUC7PJYH. As @bobfa rightly pointed out it seems to be a very flexible solution (optane!), no matter if you'll settle on Audiolinux or Euphony.

 

I have a question in this regard. @romaz mentioned in a recent post that a USB drive would sound as good as an Optane drive with AL or Euphony, both being better than a SSD. But isn't a USB drive flash storage just like SSD? So why is a USB drive sounding better then? Because my NUCPJYH is running Euphony from a USB drive right now and it's really slow sometimes (even though it's a really fast USB drive). I wonder if a SLC SSD inside the NUC would be an alternative but if sound is worse...

 

I have to add that I have spent more time with Euphony on the NUC and comparing it to the sMS-200 than I did with Audiolinux. So perhaps I had more time to get used to the sound signature of the NUC with Euphony. Therefore I will do a retest of Audiolinux headless to see whether my prior assessment of Audiolinux sounding too "digital" for my taste was right. Also I will try it with the new settings mentioned by Piero to make it sound more like Euphony.

[bobfa]

On 4/12/2019 at 1:05 PM, Poldi said:

Some time ago I wrote in the Audiolinux thread that after comparing my sMS-200 neo with my NUCPJYH with Audiolinux headless in ramroot that in sum I liked the sMS-200 a bit more because it seemed to sound more natural to me.

 

Since then I have tried Euphony on the NUC and compared it to the sMS-200 (both playing files from Qobuz and both units powered by a HDPLEX 200W linear power supply at 19V and 12V respectively [old version]).

 

The NUC is in a totally different league than the sMS-200. Much bigger and deeper soundstage that makes tracks sound more realistic and involving. So there is no real competition. But the sMS-200 is still a bit warmer sounding (perhaps due to a rolloff in the treble?). So in a perfect world, I'd like to have all that the NUC has to offer soundwise but add a little more weight in the lower mids to give for example guitars a little more weight.

To make matters worse I recently exchanged my Meicord Opal ethernet cable with a Viablue EP-7 with Telegärtner plugs. To my ears it is a lot better than the Meicord  (much better soundstage and more details, more natural). But is also brighter than the Meicord. While it is not sounding digital or harsh in any way, I could have used a ethernet cable with a more meaty sound to level out the sound signature of my NUC.

So my guess is right now, that I might go for the NUC7i7DN as it's said to sound fuller than the NUC7PJYH. As @bobfa rightly pointed out it seems to be a very flexible solution (optane!), no matter if you'll settle on Audiolinux or Euphony.

 

I have a question in this regard. @romaz mentioned in a recent post that a USB drive would sound as good as an Optane drive with AL or Euphony, both being better than a SSD. But isn't a USB drive flash storage just like SSD? So why is a USB drive sounding better then? Because my NUCPJYH is running Euphony from a USB drive right now and it's really slow sometimes (even though it's a really fast USB drive). I wonder if a SLC SSD inside the NUC would be an alternative but if sound is worse...

 

I have to add that I have spent more time with Euphony on the NUC and comparing it to the sMS-200 than I did with Audiolinux. So perhaps I had more time to get used to the sound signature of the NUC with Euphony. Therefore I will do a retest of Audiolinux headless to see whether my prior assessment of Audiolinux sounding too "digital" for my taste was right. Also I will try it with the new settings mentioned by Piero to make it sound more like Euphony.

In reference to the USB drive I think that there might be some confusion.  First on the NUC many have been using a USB stick and running in RAM with AL so that they can pull the USB stick. In my testing that is what I have been doing.  For Euphony my NUC supports the Optane “ssd” in the PCIE m.2 slot.  So that drive is always in the machine.  At this point I could not hear a difference with it in or out.

 

I have been concentrating on the server end for now.  

[Jay Tee]

On 4/18/2019 at 6:45 PM, bobfa said:

For Euphony my NUC supports the Optane “ssd” in the PCIE m.2 slot.  So that drive is always in the machine.  At this point I could not hear a difference with it in or out.

 

I have been concentrating on the server end for now.  

Earlier in this thread you mentioned adding an Optane module in the m.2 slot of your NUC and moving Euphony to that ‘drive’ to dispense with booting from the USB stick.

 

I’ve just followed you and added an Optane stick to my NUC running trial Euphony and it shows up in Euphony. I need your guidance on how to move  my Euphony from the USB stick to the Optane drive (assuming I can do it with the trial).

 

By the way I have removed both my SSDs from the NUC and perceive a more open see-through sound, quieter, if you will.

 

Thanks for pointing us to Euphony. I rate it above my Auralic Aries in realism. The Aries is good, but Euphony puts more meat on the bones.

 

I expect to buy my Euphony license as soon as I’ve sorted out my niggling issues.

[bobfa]

4 minutes ago, Jay Tee said:

Earlier in this thread you mentioned adding an Optane module in the m.2 slot of your NUC and moving Euphony to that ‘drive’ to dispense with booting from the USB stick.

 

I’ve just followed you and added an Optane stick to my NUC running trial Euphony and it shows up in Euphony. I need your guidance on how to move  my Euphony from the USB stick to the Optane drive (assuming I can do it with the trial).

 

By the way I have removed both my SSDs from the NUC and perceive a more open see-through sound, quieter, if you will.

 

Thanks for pointing us to Euphony. I rate it above my Auralic Aries in realism. The Aries is good, but Euphony puts more meat on the bones.

 

I expect to buy my Euphony license as soon as I’ve sorted out my niggling issues.

I have never tried to install the trial on a drive.  I just do not know.

 

[austinpop]

12 minutes ago, Jay Tee said:

Earlier in this thread you mentioned adding an Optane module in the m.2 slot of your NUC and moving Euphony to that ‘drive’ to dispense with booting from the USB stick.

 

I’ve just followed you and added an Optane stick to my NUC running trial Euphony and it shows up in Euphony. I need your guidance on how to move  my Euphony from the USB stick to the Optane drive (assuming I can do it with the trial).

 

By the way I have removed both my SSDs from the NUC and perceive a more open see-through sound, quieter, if you will.

 

Thanks for pointing us to Euphony. I rate it above my Auralic Aries in realism. The Aries is good, but Euphony puts more meat on the bones.

 

I expect to buy my Euphony license as soon as I’ve sorted out my niggling issues.

 

The trial disables the Install option. Once you buy the license, you have to do 2 steps: 

1. Complete installation - you’ll see a button for that 

2. “Install” - follow the steps and select the Optane SSD as target.

[Holzohr]

3 hours ago, Jay Tee said:

I’ve just followed you and added an Optane stick to my NUC running trial Euphony and it shows up in Euphony. I need your guidance on how to move  my Euphony from the USB stick to the Optane drive (assuming I can do it with the trial).

 

You can install the euphony image on the Optane stick this way: http://www.modelpromo.nl/AudioLinux-part2.htm

 

[Jay Tee]

Thanks all. Will report back after trying Holzohr’s suggestion.

[Holzohr]

6 hours ago, Jay Tee said:

Thanks all. Will report back after trying Holzohr’s suggestion.

 

 

[Jay Tee]

Holzohr,

One quick question: Can I use your routine to clone my current USB stick boot disk or do I have to start from scratch and use a fresh image?

 

[Holzohr]

6 minutes ago, Jay Tee said:

Holzohr,

One quick question: Can I use your routine to clone my current USB stick boot disk or do I have to start from scratch and use a fresh image?

 

 

To be honest I have no idea. I gave that way (decribed for Audiolinux) a try and it worked. Not sure if you must adjust the boot parameter when you clone your USB stick. You can try it and in case the cloning doesn't work you can go the "restore the image" way.

[Jay Tee]

Sorry I might’ve confused you with the word clone. I meant the same restore you described...but the question was did you do it with a fresh image or with the image on your already in-use USB stick.

[Holzohr]

1 hour ago, Jay Tee said:

Sorry I might’ve confused you with the word clone. I meant the same restore you described...but the question was did you do it with a fresh image or with the image on your already in-use USB stick.

 

When you place the image on your USB stick with help of Etcher or similar it is not an image anymore. You have two or three partitions on your USB stick then. So yes, I did it with a fresh (unzipped) euphony.img file that I copied onto a second USB stick (the first USB stick was the Linux live stick).

[Jay Tee]

@holzohr

Thanks. Very useful.

[bobfa]

I thought it was time for a status update.  I have been doing very little on the testing front as I have been setting up a whole new system with Kii Three speakers.  My systems design has been using my Server and NUC running Euphony and Roon on the server and Euphony and SQLite on the endpoint.  I had upgraded the power supply on the server to an HDPlex 400 and that is about it.   

 

There has been a lot of changes in the ensuing weeks on the AudioLinux front.  I am still not ready to go back to AL for testing yet.  I want to do one more test with Euphony running their Stylus player and HQPlayer up-sampler.  

 

Along with the speaker positioning and tuning I have to do the following?

 

Euphony Stylus with HQPlayer in the NUC

Roon Server  to HQPlayer endpoint in the HUC

 

And then decide how to test with the new updates of AL.  I really do not have a plan  for how or when.

 

[davide256]

I gave Euphony a whirl on NUC8i3BNH and was not impressed using it as standalone server/USB source. Interface is rudimentary and sound wasn't anything to write home about.  Is their a Euphony endpoint setup option I missed for the NUC7PJYH I use as Roon endpoint, all I saw was Roonbridge?

[bobfa]

1 minute ago, davide256 said:

I gave Euphony a whirl on NUC8i3BNH and was not impressed using it as standalone server/USB source. Interface is rudimentary and sound wasn't anything to write home about.

Is their a Euphony endpoint setup option I missed, all I saw was Roonbridge?

There are several options:

 

[Nenon]

20 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I gave Euphony a whirl on NUC8i3BNH and was not impressed using it as standalone server/USB source. Interface is rudimentary and sound wasn't anything to write home about.  Is their a Euphony endpoint setup option I missed for the NUC7PJYH I use as Roon endpoint, all I saw was Roonbridge?

 

Interesting... Euphony sounded a lot better for me when playing local files compared to ROCK or AL with Roon. I agree about the Stylus interface. It's not even remotely close to Roon. 

 

@davide256 - did you pay local files, or did you stream Tidal/Qobuz? I never compared streaming because I almost don't stream anymore.

[davide256]

7 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Interesting... Euphony sounded a lot better for me when playing local files compared to ROCK or AL with Roon. I agree about the Stylus interface. It's not even remotely close to Roon. 

 

@davide256 - did you pay local files, or did you stream Tidal/Qobuz? I never compared streaming because I almost don't stream anymore.

I have Qubuz at MP3 quality, great tool for music discovery. But for serious listening I always use FLAC files on locally attached drives.

Always possible that there is a DC power supply dependency, limited to SoTM SPS-500 at present for NUC8i3BNH server.

[Nenon]

12 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Always possible that there is a DC power supply dependency, limited to SoTM SPS-500 at present for NUC8i3BNH server.

 

So that was not a server you used with another OS as a standalone server/USB source before? I thought you just changed the OS and did not like it. Sorry if I misunderstood. 

[davide256]

11 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

So that was not a server you used with another OS as a standalone server/USB source before? I thought you just changed the OS and did not like it. Sorry if I misunderstood. 

I've tried Roon on various machines as a standalone server/endpoint... even with external media powered by LPS 1.2, that sounded inferior to Roon server streaming

to separate Roon endpoint, even if the endpoint was a simple RPI3B+. So I would not find  any comparison meaningful that was based solely on a 1 box solution.