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Shootout at the Linux Corral: AudioLinux vs Euphony

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12 hours ago, bobfa said:

The current bug is that it does not run roon bridge properly.  You can run Squeezelite and that will work.  

The problem you have is that the unlicensed version will not boot on that NUC

 

 

Ok thanks for that... I remembered reading about the legacy boot issue after I posted my question... sorry, I should probably take any further discussion to your other thread so I don't clutter the listening impressions... I think I have some catch up reading to do on the other thread 😁

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7 hours ago, mriguy said:

Well done! You guys have really captured my interest in Euphony! Right now, I'm just using a Raspberry Pi with an Allo Digi-One into a Chord Hugo 2. A couple quick questions for your collective minds here...

 

Is bobfa testing/experiments going back and forth between AL and Euphony on his Roon endpoint or on his Roon core server?

 

What would be the best NUC to use for creating a Roon Endpoint, that will NOT be doing any oversampling? In this use scenario, is there a SQ difference between an i3 or an i5 or an i7 based NUC?  Is there a SQ difference between NUC6, NUC7 or NUC8s?  Is there a SQ difference between M.2 versus SSD based NUCs? Thanks very much for any thoughts and guidance you might have.  

 

Right now, my Roon Core is running on a Mac Mini.  The suggested idea of special version of Euphony for Roon users only (without Stylus), but with an adjusted price would be fantastic.

 

I can't wait to give all of this a try.  Keep up the great conversation! I'm hanging on every word!

I have been testing both core and endpoint on Euphony.  I am not at a point that I have spent any time dual booting the Roon Core machine.  I brought it up on Euphony and have been working on the endpoint.  I "plan" to go back to Audiolinux on the core and see what I hear.  I have too much work to do and some travel coming up to even talk about a timeframe.

 

I am glad that the Euphony folks are "watching" now.

 

Bob

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19 hours ago, sig8 said:

 And on the same lines......... I think it comes bundled with HQPlayer embedded, which is about $247 ; I already have that, so I should be able to get one without it for less.

 

I’m assuming one has to have the license to use the functionality in Euphony so I don’t think it includes the license you mention like it also does not include a Roon license.

 

They also mention this on their webpage:

Roon and HQ player license owners can enjoy the full benefits of Roon server and HQ player on Euphony OS.

 

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I want to take off on Larry’s comments on the other thread; that is, that it is possible that the sound of Euphony (@ $299) is matched or even surpassed by the currently-much-more-tweakable AudioLinux various parameters. Has anyone who had tried Euphony feel comfortable customizing AL parameters to try and compare beyond just out-of-box vs out-of-box?  

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32 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I want to take off on Larry’s comments on the other thread; that is, that it is possible that the sound of Euphony (@ $299) is matched or even surpassed by the currently-much-more-tweakable AudioLinux various parameters. Has anyone who had tried Euphony feel comfortable customizing AL parameters to try and compare beyond just out-of-box vs out-of-box? 

In theory you can do it because both are Archlinux you can tweak one to sound like the other, but there seem to be some fundamental differences also.

Audiolinux uses real time kernel, meaning output goes directly to Alsa drivers without any mixing or processing keeping the lowest possible latency. It is designed for high power processing although most of us use low power processors to good effect. ( you don't have to use a RT kernel)

It seems that audio processing and optimization is carried out with euphony to get a desired improvement in sound quality ?? If we used say euphony Kernel in audiolinux we may get a merging of sound.

Euphony doesn't offer ramroot or bridging in its current format so its difficult to offer a direct like for like comparison.

There is certainly more low frequency energy and presence to the Euphony 'sound' or if we compare that with audiolinux it could be due to the equipment used, since nothing in theory is being added. Using extreme 2 mode and specific cores for audio adds more energy to audiolinux, but still the theory is to 'add' nothing.

I use DSP to balance out an uneven headphone curve, boosting bass and adding some mid-range presence brought the 2 'sounds' closer,

but not quite the same presentation.

The similarities are very obvious to me both exhibit an open dynamic and detailed sound, more of whats on the recording.

 

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58 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

 

There is certainly more low frequency energy and presence to the Euphony 'sound' or if we compare that with audiolinux it could be due to the equipment used, since nothing in theory is being added.

 

 

?  Don’t you compare on same equipment?

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21 minutes ago, ted_b said:

?  Don’t you compare on same equipment?

Of Course, on my equipment the sonic signature is the same, there is a bit more low frequency energy and general presence, with Euphony a bit more delicacy and refinement with audiolinux I don't think the difference is enough to switch from one OS to the other,

but that's on my equipment eg. on a higher powered server eg. Pink Faun the balance could be different. Maybe once the bugs have been sorted out with Euphony someone can do a more detailed comparison.

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On 3/19/2019 at 2:14 PM, bobfa said:

Over the past few days I have been listening to the system and have some observations to report.  

 

What I have been doing is swapping between Audiolinux booting to the RAM and Euphony booting from the Optane M.2 stick in the NUC endpoint The endpoint is running Roon Bridge.  The Server is running Roon on Euphony.  ***As of right now this is hard to do with a configuration problem in Euphony that is patched on my system and should be in the next release.  (Bleeding edge)

 

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The first track that three of us have observed a significant and immediate difference is "Fanfare for the Common Man" on the Telarc release.  The first minute of the track tells us a lot.  Running AL the ring of the inital Gong hits are almost recessed.  They just do not sound right.  Reboot into Euphony and that wonderful ring is there and the decay just lasts forever.  The kettle drums are more distinctly presented.  Then the single trumpet comes in and it is haunting.  

 

images.jpeg.0ab660d11186b9c4c031d31d7fb85005.jpeg

 

Listening to Rodrigo and Gabriela play on their third album is a joy.  With Eyphony the edge of the guitars is gone the low and middle registers are much more present.  You can listen to the whole album and not feel drained.

 

DST_Immortalized_Cover_Digital-Clean_0.jpg.0b9de34ea550a5016dd0183d652f2543.jpg

 

Ok, we are moving off to a little different world here.  Grab "The Sound of Silence" from Immortalized by Disturbed.  Play that track all the way through a couple of times on Audiolinux and then listen to it on Euphony. You tell me what you hear!  Note: This version is a perfect rendition for our times as was the Simon and Garfunkle original for that time!  (The YouTube video is cool too.)

 

Unknown-1.jpeg.8247ca3041d2ea337290ef1b5207551d.jpeg

 

Joe Ford is an electronic music artist and there is quite a lot to listen in his works.  On the album "Culture" the second track "Distilled" will really show you the differences in the operating systems. Euphony is amazing at playing this one back.  When you are done with that track try the first track "Culture"

 

 

I have to run for now, but one last note.  Listen to "Omega" from BT's "Untitled" album.  The inital really deep base portion is amazing.  The track is long and the second half is very detailed and quiet.  Also around the 6 min mark there are a lot of differences to be heard.  Stuff is just missing on Audiolinux.  

 

 

Bob

 

PS:  Sorry for your Wallet!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bob,

 

i made a playlist of the of the above music and have been enjoying it tonight. Great recommendations, even if I’m “only” on AL! I love when people specify their favorite music tracks. Keep it coming!

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8 hours ago, austinpop said:

Bob,

 

i made a playlist of the of the above music and have been enjoying it tonight. Great recommendations, even if I’m “only” on AL! I love when people specify their favorite music tracks. Keep it coming!

Spring Break for my wife and I so I am going to be away from the keyboard for a bit.

 

I have a few more to add.

 

 

Amy Lee Love Exists

Evanescence Erase This

Liz Story Wedding Rain

Uncle Lucius Keep the Wolves Away

 

 

 

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On 3/24/2019 at 4:44 AM, ted_b said:

I want to take off on Larry’s comments on the other thread; that is, that it is possible that the sound of Euphony (@ $299) is matched or even surpassed by the currently-much-more-tweakable AudioLinux various parameters. Has anyone who had tried Euphony feel comfortable customizing AL parameters to try and compare beyond just out-of-box vs out-of-box?  

Romaz's last section of #542 mentioned that Euphony bettered his Audiolinux.

Any other AS members have done a similar comparison?

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@bobfa or anyone know if Euphony can support wifi connection ? Can I initially connect through Ethernet and then configure wifi network ?

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On 3/23/2019 at 1:44 PM, ted_b said:

I want to take off on Larry’s comments on the other thread; that is, that it is possible that the sound of Euphony (@ $299) is matched or even surpassed by the currently-much-more-tweakable AudioLinux various parameters.

 

Which thread and what AL parameters are those ?

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1 hour ago, Dev said:

@bobfa or anyone know if Euphony can support wifi connection ? Can I initially connect through Ethernet and then configure wifi network ?

There is no root access not sure once you've bought the software. No Wi-Fi setup in the configuration menu maybe it's work in progress.

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49 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

There is no root access not sure once you've bought the software. No Wi-Fi setup in the configuration menu maybe it's work in progress.

 

I haven't bought anything yet. I would like to try it first as its quiet expensive to start with. The problem is I can't do apples to apples comparison with AL and without wifi. I have found wifi setup to be far superior in my setup than the ethernet on AL. I shot a mail yesterday to Euphony asking about it but no reply yet. 

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11 hours ago, Dev said:

 

I haven't bought anything yet. I would like to try it first as its quiet expensive to start with. The problem is I can't do apples to apples comparison with AL and without wifi. I have found wifi setup to be far superior in my setup than the ethernet on AL. I shot a mail yesterday to Euphony asking about it but no reply yet. 

Let us know if you get a reply from customer service.

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23 hours ago, Dev said:

@bobfa or anyone know if Euphony can support wifi connection ? Can I initially connect through Ethernet and then configure wifi network ?

 

20 hours ago, Dev said:

 

I haven't bought anything yet. I would like to try it first as its quiet expensive to start with. The problem is I can't do apples to apples comparison with AL and without wifi. I have found wifi setup to be far superior in my setup than the ethernet on AL. I shot a mail yesterday to Euphony asking about it but no reply yet. 

9 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Let us know if you get a reply from customer service.

 

I got a one liner response.

 

"Sorry, we do not and don't plan to support wifi connections."

 

No further explanation given.

 

I tied to run the trial version. Here is what I found

 

1. the voucher code wouldn't work. It stops all the services after a short time. So if you are using Roon and have not register the trail, it would stop the server after a couple of minutes and then you would have to restart it.

2. Looks like when using the Stylus app I can't point the library to the external USB drive though the drives are seen and mounted. Not sure if its the limitation of the Trial or not. I have again asked by email.

3. The license is tied to h/w fingerprint. So if you are using a server/streamer model, and need to run Euphony on both, then you need two license. Quiet expensive in my opinion.

4. The inability to look inside a Linux system and drop to a shell will be frustrating for those Linux geeks who likes to peek inside and tweak things. 

5. I haven't yet critically compared the SQ with AL, though from what I can tell using Euphony for couple of minutes with Roon, they are both close.

 

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10 hours ago, Dev said:

 

 

I got a one liner response.

 

"Sorry, we do not and don't plan to support wifi connections."

 

No further explanation given.

 

I tied to run the trial version. Here is what I found

 

1. the voucher code wouldn't work. It stops all the services after a short time. So if you are using Roon and have not register the trail, it would stop the server after a couple of minutes and then you would have to restart it.

2. Looks like when using the Stylus app I can't point the library to the external USB drive though the drives are seen and mounted. Not sure if its the limitation of the Trial or not. I have again asked by email.

3. The license is tied to h/w fingerprint. So if you are using a server/streamer model, and need to run Euphony on both, then you need two license. Quiet expensive in my opinion.

4. The inability to look inside a Linux system and drop to a shell will be frustrating for those Linux geeks who likes to peek inside and tweak things. 

5. I haven't yet critically compared the SQ with AL, though from what I can tell using Euphony for couple of minutes with Roon, they are both close.

 

Get that trial activated and things will work better for you.  That initial setup is weird.  They will help you!  

 

On the trial you can use external USB for sure.  I did.

 

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:26 PM, Dev said:

 

 

I got a one liner response.

 

"Sorry, we do not and don't plan to support wifi connections."

 

No further explanation given.

 

I tied to run the trial version. Here is what I found

 

1. the voucher code wouldn't work. It stops all the services after a short time. So if you are using Roon and have not register the trail, it would stop the server after a couple of minutes and then you would have to restart it.

2. Looks like when using the Stylus app I can't point the library to the external USB drive though the drives are seen and mounted. Not sure if its the limitation of the Trial or not. I have again asked by email.

3. The license is tied to h/w fingerprint. So if you are using a server/streamer model, and need to run Euphony on both, then you need two license. Quiet expensive in my opinion.

4. The inability to look inside a Linux system and drop to a shell will be frustrating for those Linux geeks who likes to peek inside and tweak things. 

5. I haven't yet critically compared the SQ with AL, though from what I can tell using Euphony for couple of minutes with Roon, they are both close.

 

I faced same thing on your point no.2 and I will try to ask them if this limited to paid license.

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:26 PM, Dev said:

 

 

I got a one liner response.

 

"Sorry, we do not and don't plan to support wifi connections."

 

No further explanation given.

 

I tied to run the trial version. Here is what I found

 

1. the voucher code wouldn't work. It stops all the services after a short time. So if you are using Roon and have not register the trail, it would stop the server after a couple of minutes and then you would have to restart it.

2. Looks like when using the Stylus app I can't point the library to the external USB drive though the drives are seen and mounted. Not sure if its the limitation of the Trial or not. I have again asked by email.

3. The license is tied to h/w fingerprint. So if you are using a server/streamer model, and need to run Euphony on both, then you need two license. Quiet expensive in my opinion.

4. The inability to look inside a Linux system and drop to a shell will be frustrating for those Linux geeks who likes to peek inside and tweak things. 

5. I haven't yet critically compared the SQ with AL, though from what I can tell using Euphony for couple of minutes with Roon, they are both close.

 

I faced same thing on your point no.2 and I will try to ask them if this limited to paid license.

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2 hours ago, beautiful music said:

I faced same thing on your point no.2 and I will try to ask them if this limited to paid license.

 

You still have to add the mounted drive to your library under "Action" (the three dots).


Euphony (NUC7DNKE: Roon or Stylus) --> Euphony EP (NUC7CJYH: Roon Bridge or NAA or StylusEP) --> Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 --> Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA) (I2S) -->

Euphony (NUC7DNKE: Roon) --> WS 2019 Core (i7-8700: HQPlayer, JPLAY Femto, Roon Bridge, MinorityClean) / Matrix Audio Element H --> Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA) (USB) --> B & M Prime 6

Synology DS 112+ (LMS) --> pi3B+/HifiBerry Digi + Pro (PiCorePlayer) --> Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA) (SPDIF) -->  

bedroom: pi3/DigiOne (RoPieee) --> S.M.S.L M500 --> KRK Rokit 5 or AKG 712 Pro

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6 hours ago, beautiful music said:

I faced same thing on your point no.2 and I will try to ask them if this limited to paid license.

 

I got it working after I got the trial activated. Note the trial is also associated with h/w fingerprint, so the code is unique to your h/w and they activate through their server. When I ran from the USB, I saw the external drive already auto-mounted - all you had to do is to add the partition to the library and Stylus will start building it. However, yesterday I loaded Euphony into Optane and for some reason the same external drive wasn't auto-mounted. So I had to explicitly mount it and then add to the library (the "..." on the side). Easy steps...  

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On 3/31/2019 at 11:05 AM, Dev said:

 

I got it working after I got the trial activated. Note the trial is also associated with h/w fingerprint, so the code is unique to your h/w and they activate through their server. When I ran from the USB, I saw the external drive already auto-mounted - all you had to do is to add the partition to the library and Stylus will start building it. However, yesterday I loaded Euphony into Optane and for some reason the same external drive wasn't auto-mounted. So I had to explicitly mount it and then add to the library (the "..." on the side). Easy steps...  

Glad you got the trial working.  I am just getting back from vacation and have not been able to read much here for the last week...  Too much hiking....  

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A short status update.  I received and installed an Optane SSD for my server.  Did a little listening today and while I was working and listening at the same time there appears to be some nice little improvements.  Less harshness and some more detail in some of the music. I had the Evanescence Synthesis album on my overall impression is that there is more personality  in the vocals.  The orchestral sections of music have some more separation.    There needs to be more time spent.

 

It is looking like the update for Euphony with bridging in it will be out in a couple of days, so I will be able to move back to that in my listening.  I am almost at the point where I can dual boot both server and endpoint for my comparison.  Slow but sure.

 

 

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