Shootout at the Linux Corral: AudioLinux vs Euphony

[bobfa]

I have been using Audiolinux in a custom built DIY server and NUC endpoint. Headless  AudioLinux is getting more and more user-friendly and Piero provides great support.  For $100 (two copies) in software licenses, it is a considerable value.  I can custom setup the BIOS and tune the OS.  This project is fun if you enjoy playing at that level. 

 

About a week ago I found Euphony.  It is also based on Arch Linux and appears to provide some of the same value as AudioLinux.  There are more features in their OS as it has  Music player software and some other flourishes.  I am a Roon user, and I do not currently intend on changing that!  I intend to try their player software at some point.

 

I am going to add a small (250GB) NVMe M.2 drive to the server and dual boot between AL and Euphony because I have it and there seems to be a shortage of Optane sticks this week.

 

One of the first items to note is that Euphony does not use ACPI boot you have to turn legacy back on if you were using AudioLinux.

 

Euphony basic setup is relatively simple.  Download the image and install it on a USB stick with Etcher on the MAC or their Windows installer.  For Euphony to run you need to register it for a trial.  There is an odd back and forth setup between the website and the program, but you get an email with the trial key pretty quickly.  Then things get weird.  Unless you purchase a license for $289.00 you cannot install the system anywhere.  You have to run off of the USB stick.  This is not conducive to running Roon Core.

 

 

I am sitting here springing forward and sleeping on going any further.

 

Bob

[bobfa]

I have found a vendor that will build semi-custom fan-less NUC machines for me using that board.  I hope that it will work out.  There seems to be demand.  

 

I will report on progress on the shootout.  It will take a bit.

[bobfa]

Dirk,

 

You hit one of the nails right on the head here.  You have found what you wanted. There are many systems out there that provide some of the same benefits you have opted for.  Really the underlying OS is not relevant if the system designer does their job right. You have a commercial product with support that "just works"

 

 I am really happy that we have AL and the like to help make our systems sound better.  Great research and work going on here.

 

I love to tinker or play around with this stuff.  I enjoy it.  It is a journey for me.  

 

I believe that "open source" thinking might not be the goals for some folks.  Pinkfaun system is there to make them money!.  I cannot say what motivates others. Some of us need income to live!

 

 

 

 

[bobfa]

Today I got started using Euphony on my NUC.  7i7dnbe in Akasa case.  I put two sticks of RAM in as I have been told that the NUCs are "more stable" that way.  (I do not konw)

 

I am booting off of USB.  The computer, external HD, EtherRegen, and Fiber module are all powered by an HDPLEX200.  I am using the Stylus music software to play with. It feels like a cross between Roon and on a file based player.  You get some rich data, but it is by linking out to other websites.  I have used both their iPad App and Safari.  The touch targets on Safari on a 12.9 iPad pro are a bit small.  The NUC runs 5 to 7 degrees C warmer than when I was running AL.   I have their player set to buffer before starting.  That should mean it is streaming from RAM when it can.  

 

I setup the Power Supply and HD outside of the system first and after things were working, I put all the gear on a shelf. 

 

NOTE: This is a one box solution with the NUC driving the YGGY through an ISORegen.

 

I have a log of several things I found during the operation and I have a couple of "bugs" to report to the developer.  The music player takes some getting used to but it is pretty cool.

 

The setup routine is blissfully simple.  Image a USB stick with the OS.  Boot the USB stick (set BIOS to Legacy).  Register a trial.  Mount the HD for the library to see.  The initial scan took about 45min to build the database.  (67K tracks).  The OS, re-scans when rebooted.

 

My son and I spent about two hours listening to music. The music is fuller and more dynamic. My son said that this is the best he has heard the system play. I listened to the whole soundtrack of the Cooper/Gaga "A Star is Born". I felt like I was in the theater again, Yet I was working in the Kitchen around the corner from the LR where the stereo is.    

 

I have a whole lot of other testing to do.  I will bring up my Xeon server and hook it up tomorrow to see if I can hear anything different.  I am very interested in that as we have found the USB connection on the NUC to be pretty darn good. 

 

Next I have to test Roon Core.  I will have to figure out how to make that work with the Roon database.  The Stylus OS showed that the database was on a Spinning disk it was slow with artwork, etc.  BUT THE SOUND!

 

Bob

 

  

 

[bobfa]

I have it setup right now with their Stylus app.  They have Roon and LMS and Squeezelite so it can do more.  

 

I am testing one thing at a time.  Also they get $289 for a license.  I am running on a trial for a month.

 

 

[bobfa]

Lots to experiment with. 

[bobfa]

I do not have all the answers yet.  I would think that from an endpoint you would not need an SSD.  For a server, you need something.  I am running the server right now on a USB stick and a HD for music.  Much more to do.

[bobfa]

31 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I'd be curious if the media drives can be USB3 connected. That should allow most external storage options.  Not too keen on abandoning Roons database/Qobuz integration capabilities but comparisons of AL and Euphony as Roon core and/or endpoint sounds intriguing.

Yes I am on USB 3 port for my music drive.

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

1) Per Euphony's support site, you have to have a dedicated HD/SSD for OS install... will win no fans on the endpoint side

2) there is no statement of minimum hardware requirements

 

so this doesn't appear launch ready "for prime time" yet

 

will give it a whirl as server on NUC7PJYH/8gb RAM with an SSD installed and USB3 attached storage media.... if it runs on that, then HW

limits shouldn't be a concern.

Let me come to their defense a little bit with and admission that my own small business is far from perfect from communications with customers.  I think that their primary product is the server side of things.  They sell servers in different parts of the world and sell SSDs with the OS installed.  I find it very hard to get the end user docs right let alone define who the end user is.

 

They have a tech support site that you can submit tickets on and they have been very responsive.  The documentation is a little weak on the website and the FAQ is “thin”. I have submitted tickets and they have responded rather quickly.  

 

It is my understanding that you can finish an install on an endpoint type device.  I am running it off of USB sticks in trial mode (Stylus Server).  I have not tried Roon or any of the other options as of yet.

 

I am testing the server / player software between my NUC/Xeon.  I am not ready to say much more about this yet as A/B takes 10 minutes because I only have one power supply and storage drive.

 

I am about ready to commit to purchasing at least one license.  

 

This may not be the most “tinker-able” OS to play with.  I will say that I made a USB stick, booted up and had a music server system up and running with no issues.

[bobfa]

1 minute ago, davide256 said:

Sigh... doesn't look like I can get into NUC BIOS until I get a wired vs wireless keyboard... fast boot is enabled so wireless keyboard F2 doesn't work

and holding the power key for 3 seconds doesn't give the BIOS shell either.

I keep a display, keyboard and mouse I the cabinet with the stereo....  I hate this stuff.  I have no wireless in my hardware.

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, dc-audiogeek said:

I bought a Euphony Audio PTS (i3 8 GB ram linux-based server) from the company and have been using Euphony for a year and I really like it. I think the Euphony Stylus-based music app sounds great but is a bit pokey. Euphony works perfectly fine with HQPlayer and Roon. 

 

Arthur, their USA rep, is very responsive to questions and getting bug reports to the engineering group. He's great. His email is: [email protected].

 

Euphony regularly updates their software with additional features and better audio quality (v3 just came out and sounds fantastic). It blows away Auralic's products (the last generation... haven't heard the latest models).

 

I'm very pleased with Euphony overall.

That sounds great.  I have been playing with the Stylus server and it sounds great.  The UI is "different again"!  I am used to using Roon which I cannot test till I send them money!

 

What are you using on a regular basis and how is your system configured?

 

Thanks for helping!

[bobfa]

5 hours ago, Holzohr said:

 

Hi Bob, thank you very much for this thread. I downloaded Euphony last night and was testing Roon core with HQPlayer embedded. I must say I liked what I heard but it seems my USB stick is not made for this kind of continuous operation. I still want to give Euphony a try as endpoint for Roon and HQPlayer.

I buought licenses and am setting up on faster storage..

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, jkelly said:

Do you know if I can connect the Euphony server to my NAS music folder instead of a USB or internal storage drive? 

Hang on for later will take some screen shots.  The answer is yes it is in the UI.  I have not tested it.

[bobfa]

51 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Do you recall what you did to clear BIOS settings? The online NUC documentation wasn't helpful there. There is a BIOS security jumper but nothing that I could find saying one

could use it to reset to defaults.

You can reset to defaults within the BIOS.

[bobfa]

3 hours ago, jkelly said:

Do you know if I can connect the Euphony server to my NAS music folder instead of a USB or internal storage drive? 

See my setup thready here:  

 

YES

[bobfa]

12 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Sorry I'm still confused.  As a long time HQPlayer user (I started the embedded thread) I am wondering what you mean.  I was told that Stylus is Euphony's music player, yet you describe using Roon (as library manager and ipadgui) to HQplayer (as upsampler) and then running HQplayer NAA on the PTS box.  Where does Stylus (a music player) even fit in here?  How did their going to Stylus V3 affect your sound if what you use is Roon and HQplayer?  You show Stylus as a GUI, but it's now what you use, right?  You use Roon.  Thx

You can use Euphony OS with either their Stylus music player or Roon or several other configs

 

 

 

[bobfa]

1 minute ago, jkelly said:

 

Thanks.  I can only get to the root of the NAS('s) and not to the actual audio folder - I'll figure it out.

 

I didn't want to mess up my 2 NUC AL setup - so I wrote the Euphony .dmg file to a 32gig MSATA drive,

using a MSATA - USB adapter, and put it into my old DN2800MT.  So far so good! TY!

I did it with the path section of the library setup right next to the server name.

[bobfa]

I completed some listening using the endpoint as a server.  I am not going to comment yet on how that sounded.  I have to test Roon first!

 

So Busy day and no REAL WORK was done.  OH well, I did wash the floors and vacuum so my wife will be happy.

 

I have my server running E3 off of an NVMEe stick. The server is not bridged yet.  I have a fiber link to my UBNT switch.  The other fiber port goes to the system.  The endpoint is set up as before.  Fiber to the TLS switch to the NUC.  

 

 

 

 

Over on the E3 OS setup thread, I have some OS and APP Notes.  There were bumps in the road.  My son and Only have about an hour of listening and a fully detailed report is not ready yet.

 

>>>>PLEASE SOMEONE ELSE TRY THIS>>>>

 

>>>>Do not scroll down if you want to avoid early spoilers

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SPOILER ALERT: OMFG

 

Listen to  Joe Ford "Distilled", BT "Omega",  Uncle Lucius "Keep The Wolves Away" in a before and after mode if you can!

 

Bob

 

[bobfa]

44 minutes ago, tedwoods said:

Could one use HQPlayer embedded without having to control it through Roon, either using HQPlayer's own library management or maybe through their Stylus app?

I cannot answer. I have no experience with hqayer. 

[bobfa]

3 minutes ago, misterspense said:

So when does the shootout begin?

 

About two hours ago I now have working Roon on the endpoint. 

 

The first part part of the shootout will be end point reboot to AL/RAM the back to Euphony. 

 

I am am working now. Bummer😾

[bobfa]

I have started the A/B (wait) test.  When I fire up AL it loads into RAM, so the startup is slow. It takes almost 2 minutes  I listen and then I shut down, remove the USB stick power up to listen to Euphony.  That is about a 30 second gap.  Doing this blind is almost impossible.

 

My typical test is to pick a selection of music and listen to 30-40 seconds, then listen again and make the swap and listen a third time.  This process is hampered by the swap time.

 

Very slow progress.  BUT with a couple of swaps in Euphony is winning in presence, depth, detail, and fullness of the lower registers. There is a precision here I have not heard before out of my system.  

 

Progress has been made.

[bobfa]

Over the past few days I have been listening to the system and have some observations to report.  

 

What I have been doing is swapping between Audiolinux booting to the RAM and Euphony booting from the Optane M.2 stick in the NUC endpoint The endpoint is running Roon Bridge.  The Server is running Roon on Euphony.  ***As of right now this is hard to do with a configuration problem in Euphony that is patched on my system and should be in the next release.  (Bleeding edge)

 

The first track that three of us have observed a significant and immediate difference is "Fanfare for the Common Man" on the Telarc release.  The first minute of the track tells us a lot.  Running AL the ring of the inital Gong hits are almost recessed.  They just do not sound right.  Reboot into Euphony and that wonderful ring is there and the decay just lasts forever.  The kettle drums are more distinctly presented.  Then the single trumpet comes in and it is haunting.  

 

 

Listening to Rodrigo and Gabriela play on their third album is a joy.  With Eyphony the edge of the guitars is gone the low and middle registers are much more present.  You can listen to the whole album and not feel drained.

 

 

Ok, we are moving off to a little different world here.  Grab "The Sound of Silence" from Immortalized by Disturbed.  Play that track all the way through a couple of times on Audiolinux and then listen to it on Euphony. You tell me what you hear!  Note: This version is a perfect rendition for our times as was the Simon and Garfunkle original for that time!  (The YouTube video is cool too.)

 

 

Joe Ford is an electronic music artist and there is quite a lot to listen in his works.  On the album "Culture" the second track "Distilled" will really show you the differences in the operating systems. Euphony is amazing at playing this one back.  When you are done with that track try the first track "Culture"

 

 

I have to run for now, but one last note.  Listen to "Omega" from BT's "Untitled" album.  The inital really deep base portion is amazing.  The track is long and the second half is very detailed and quiet.  Also around the 6 min mark there are a lot of differences to be heard.  Stuff is just missing on Audiolinux.  

 

 

Bob

 

PS:  Sorry for your Wallet!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobfa]

58 minutes ago, rickca said:

OK so@ArthurPower can you explain some key differences between AudioLinux and Euphony that might account for Euphony's reported superior sound quality?

Rick,

 

I would think that it would be valuable  if YOU could test this on YOUR systems and validate or invalidate what I am hearing.  That would "add to the shared knowledge" in a positive way.  

 

In addition, there are many OS variants that are used in audio systems that could be compared.  I think that while it might be interesting to develop that list and learn from it, we might not have time to sit down and listen for fun! 

 

I started this thread to encourage others to try what I am finding.  I really want others to just boot-up Euphony and see if it works for them.  

[bobfa]

6 hours ago, Bricki said:

Is it possible to simply download the trial, boot off a USB stick and then run roon bridge? Or is roon bridge the part that I need the patch for?

 

I am keen to do this and compare directly with Audiolinux on my NUC7CJYH running roon bridge

The current bug is that it does not run roon bridge properly.  You can run Squeezelite and that will work.  

The problem you have is that the unlicensed version will not boot on that NUC

 

 

[bobfa]

8 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

Hi ,

 

Does the Euphony OS allow dual pc set up ?

If yes can you run both server and player pc from just USB key ?

What is the minimum ram requirement for server and player side ?

Can you run roocore and roonbridge config ?

 

Many questions , thank for your help. 

Jean Michel

 

I have a whole thread dedicated to setup.  Short answer is you can boot from USB but I would not do that with sever..  There is a problem with Roon Bridge setup.  I do not know the minimum ram.