Shootout at the Linux Corral: AudioLinux vs Euphony

[davide256]

3 hours ago, bobfa said:

I do not have all the answers yet.  I would think that from an endpoint you would not need an SSD.  For a server, you need something.  I am running the server right now on a USB stick and a HD for music.  Much more to do.

I'd be curious if the media drives can be USB3 connected. That should allow most external storage options.  Not too keen on abandoning Roons database/Qobuz integration capabilities but comparisons of AL and Euphony as Roon core and/or endpoint sounds intriguing.

[davide256]

1) Per Euphony's support site, you have to have a dedicated HD/SSD for OS install... will win no fans on the endpoint side

2) there is no statement of minimum hardware requirements

 

so this doesn't appear launch ready "for prime time" yet

 

will give it a whirl as server on NUC7PJYH/8gb RAM with an SSD installed and USB3 attached storage media.... if it runs on that, then HW

limits shouldn't be a concern.

[davide256]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

1) Per Euphony's support site, you have to have a dedicated HD/SSD for OS install... will win no fans on the endpoint side

2) there is no statement of minimum hardware requirements

 

so this doesn't appear launch ready "for prime time" yet

 

will give it a whirl as server on NUC7PJYH/8gb RAM with an SSD installed and USB3 attached storage media.... if it runs on that, then HW

limits shouldn't be a concern.

Sigh... doesn't look like I can get into NUC BIOS until I get a wired vs wireless keyboard... fast boot is enabled so wireless keyboard F2 doesn't work

and holding the power key for 3 seconds doesn't give the BIOS shell either.

[davide256]

6 hours ago, Holzohr said:

 

Hi, I fear you will have to reset the BIOS by clearing the CMOS. I had to do the same a couple of months ago. I thought that activating fast boot is a good thing. Maybe it is as long as you don' t need to enter the BIOS. 🙂

 

Do you recall what you did to clear BIOS settings? The online NUC documentation wasn't helpful there. There is a BIOS security jumper but nothing that I could find saying one

could use it to reset to defaults.

[davide256]

2 hours ago, bobfa said:

You can reset to defaults within the BIOS.

infinite loop here... to change defaults you have to be able to get into the NUC  BIOS. Every other PC I've had since 1992 had a way to reset  to defaults if you

had a problem that didn't allow you to get into BIOS because of  user BIOS changes, usually a  clear CMOS jumper.... having to acquire a wired keyboard would be my

method of last resort.

[davide256]

2 hours ago, Holzohr said:

 

Bad news. I have the NUC7CJYH and tried to boot from two USB sticks without success. Our NUCs doesn't support Legacy USB.

NUC7xJY_TechProdSpec (page 58).

 

And pls have a look at page 60. There you find the point 3.7.4 Power Button Menu.

Thanks and drat on the legacy USB support. I'll try using a pen on the power button vs finger to see if I can see a color change at 3 seconds

[davide256]

I gave Euphony a whirl on NUC8i3BNH and was not impressed using it as standalone server/USB source. Interface is rudimentary and sound wasn't anything to write home about.  Is their a Euphony endpoint setup option I missed for the NUC7PJYH I use as Roon endpoint, all I saw was Roonbridge?

[davide256]

7 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Interesting... Euphony sounded a lot better for me when playing local files compared to ROCK or AL with Roon. I agree about the Stylus interface. It's not even remotely close to Roon. 

 

@davide256 - did you pay local files, or did you stream Tidal/Qobuz? I never compared streaming because I almost don't stream anymore.

I have Qubuz at MP3 quality, great tool for music discovery. But for serious listening I always use FLAC files on locally attached drives.

Always possible that there is a DC power supply dependency, limited to SoTM SPS-500 at present for NUC8i3BNH server.

[davide256]

11 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

So that was not a server you used with another OS as a standalone server/USB source before? I thought you just changed the OS and did not like it. Sorry if I misunderstood. 

I've tried Roon on various machines as a standalone server/endpoint... even with external media powered by LPS 1.2, that sounded inferior to Roon server streaming

to separate Roon endpoint, even if the endpoint was a simple RPI3B+. So I would not find  any comparison meaningful that was based solely on a 1 box solution.

[davide256]

I will be making the change from AL/Rooncore to Euphony/Rooncore. Choral harmonics ( and others) have been nagging me with "subliminal" harmonic blurriness

for the past few months, so much so that I was starting to think a DAC  upgrade was needed. Thankfully the combination of Euphony /Roon server NUC

takes care of about 90% of the issue and when I replace AL on endpoint with Euphony/ Stylus EP the remaining 10% is taken care of. 

 

While  the 1 box Euphony Stylus setup is nice, I find with my system that it loses transients, sounds compressed vs  Euphony/Rooncore 1 box solution.

[davide256]

57 minutes ago, luisma said:

I found stylus sonically better than rooncore, of course library handling and interface not even close to Roon but you report that roon sounds better, are you playing dsd or PCM? What dac do you have, I'm just curious 

Most of my library is PCM and I tend to play a lot of movie soundtracks. The DAC is Metrum Octave I.  Its possible that if I were to spend over $2K on a newer DAC that

my preference might change, will have to "soak" using Euphony/Roon for a few months to see if any new "subliminal" issues rise to the surface. Have reached the point with my system

that few things are obviously broke and I follow the "if its not broke, don't fix it" mantra.

[davide256]

6 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Could you elaborate a bit more about this please?

 

You say you use PCM mostly. Does that include standard redbook?

Any DSP involved?

So Roon is effectively headless and controlled only by a remote tablet/PC/phone?

And direct USB cable connection from server to DAC?

With any USB cleaner/reclocker in the path?

 

I have a lifetime roon license that is currently gathering dust. So I'm hoping that roon will one day catch up on SQ, but I'm not holding my breath - with the roon team seemingly not accepting that there's a problem that needs fixing, and a very vocal, audiophile-bashing, bits-is-bits brigade who jump in at every opportunity on the roon forums.

I used the latest Euphony image with trial registration on a NUC8i3BEH, powered at 19v by an HDPLEX 200W supply

Software setup was Euphony/Stylus vs Euphony/Rooncore+Stylus EP, 1 box setup

No  DSP used, controlled via iPhone/iPad using http:\\{ IP address} for Euphony and Roon client for Roon

USB device is Schiit Eitr with Lush 2 USB cable and AQ Eagle Eye coax to DAC. I had an ISO Regen and sold it as detrimental after switching to AL

 

Primarily I was testing with the Sony 192/24  recording of Williams -Spielberg collection disc III and random samplings from other recordings. My collection is largely CD

quality, some DSD from San Francisco Symphony that is converted to PCM but most sound track recordings are available in CD quality only.

 

I found that Euphony was very pleasing in a KEF sort of way, great tonality and separation between instruments, no offensive edges. But using

Roon via same setup, I was hearing more "air",  sharper edges on percussion sounds and dynamics were bigger, in the way that  an Air Force

band or Harry James like band performance  behaves. Both fixed 90% of the issue I was having with AL, where complex choral harmony sounded frayed, words lost

coherency

 

It is possible that my Roon preference is because it overcompensates for deficits of Metrum Octave I DAC.  But I feel covered for that with Euphony if I trial a newer DAC

and find that to be so. I am surprised that the 1 box setup does so well, that has me wondering if a better 19v power supply purchase would eliminate any need

for the LPS 1.2 powered Stylus endpoint

 

In the FWIW column, after registration I used the install to SSD option... that was disappointing. Back to booting from a USB3 stick until I can sort through

an Optane SSD purchase.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, JohanJ said:

Thanks to all of you for the valuable info from this forum.  That makes an obligation to write a little post about my test audiolinux/euphony.

 

I am a long time user of Audiolinux in conjunction with Roon server and off and on (mostly on) HQplayer embedded.

I have a homebuild server with an i7, 8gb, asus mobo and a samsung SSD, powered with a HDPlex lineair psu. The server streams from NAS (synology) or Qobuz hi res to a Microrendu. The uRendu is hooked up to a Lampizator Atlantic which has the Amanero board. From there it goes to a Tentlab volume control, a Belles 350A poweramp to Totem Forests.

 

I just wanted to try Euphony after all I read from here, however I am very satisfied about Audiolinux. So I am very curious. Euphony is on a Sandisk USB stick and Audiolinux goes from the SSD.

 

I tried Euphony in above setup with the combinations Roon and Roon with HQplayer. In the config with the uRendu I couldn't make Stylus working, despite of the very nice and quick response of the Euphony heldesk.

I be honest with you: I couldn't hear much of a difference in this setup, maybe due to the microrendu as endpoint (Roon endpoint as well as NAA).

 

Because I was eager to listen to Stylus, I hooked the server directly into the Lampizator leaving uRendu out of the equasion.

Wow... what a difference. Much more in your face, much more bass. Also the combination Roon/Hqpd gave me the same impression.

Well we all know that when something sounds differently it is not necessairily better... After a while I got a little annoyance about the amount of bass. Maybe this is due to my room, but it was really tiring to listen to.

I am not a boomy bass guy. I love well balanced bass and this was too much. So I gave up with Euphony for now. I have lots of trial days left and I will try later and see if my findings are repeatable.

 

BTW: I tried also playing into RAM. I never liked this option in AL, no difference in Euphony. Hard, harsh and do I sometimes hear distortion in fortissimo string passages?

BTW2: how is it actually possible that Euphony gives so much low energy, also in a comparible setup with Roon/ hqpd, where the only relevant difference is the OS, both basically Archlinux.  Mmm.. .what did they do?

 

Going back to AL this whole endeavour gave me another insight: The server directly into the DAC, without the uRendu is actually a nice sound!

So for now I put my money on the new version of Audiolinux and maybe I buy a nice ifi iUSB to get something more out of my server.

Thanks Euphony for the trial and the more than perfect helpdesk. But to be honest, Piero's help and advice is also first class.

 

HD/ SSD in the NUC connected to DAC is problematic, will drag your SQ down. Better to boot off USB or Optane. That harshness you are hearing is most likely coming from

drive reads  injecting noise into the power bus supply  during audio playback. Optane and USB seem to behave better

 

Yea, MR is pleasant but limiting, I went through 2 before I got on the AL/Euphony train

 

That fortissimo distortion may be your PS. It's an improvement I noted going from HDPLEX 200 to Uptone Audio JS-2 powering an i3NUC

 

 

 

 

[davide256]

17 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

After some time involved in Euphony setup, I am here to write my own impressions.

 

For all my storage requirements I am using a NAS. Homemade machine with Supermicro server board, 12x 8Tb WD REd HDDs & 128 Gbytes or ECC Registered RAM. I have been using WS2019/AO3/JPlay for quite some time now.

I have made a vast improvement in sound quality 2 weeks ago, by lifting my server PC from the router/switch interface and plugging it directly on my NAS second NIC. This was one of the most dramatic upgrades I have ever had, by bridging the two NICs on the NAS. This is a new upgrade on FreeNAS 11.3.

 

So I have evaluated using one and two PCs with Euphony, all with identical motherboards. I am really so curious of the fact that some guys here do not experience anything that much big from going to a dual PC setup with Euphony. Guys, the improvement is really really big to the point of forgetting anything alternative.

 

My last adventure is playing with Euphony server and stylus control software on the server (control) pc, with StylusEP and Roon bridge on the audio (endpoint) pc. I am using the Pink Faun I2s bridge and after many comparisons I can say that this is really a game changer, for me digital audio reproduction is a no-go thing without this I2s bridge, even for playing DSD by converting to PCM I2s. Sound comes out unprocessed with stunning immediacy and clarity. USB interface is not for audio, even if you plug out-of-this-world USB cards with insane P/Ss and clocks. You will always miss that kind of magic. In the end, you should not forget that I'm an analog, vinyl & tubes guy...

 

Best sound was achieved with Stylus control software on PC1 and StylusEP on PC2.

 

Second best sound was achieved with Roon control software on PC1 and Roon bridge on PC2. Controlling Roon onto anything else than Roon bridge was intolerable to my ears.

 

Practically, for me it is the first time I am experiencing very good sound out of my Roon license. The only penalty of using Roon is the requirement for a huge local hard disc, in excess of 100 Gbytes, while with Stylus control software the requirements go down to less than 8Gbytes for my 100.000+ albums library. But then again, for maximum sound quality, you need to stick to Stylus.

 

Hope that my findings could be helpful to you.

 

Peter, streaming has a lot of variables in it, including system effects.  Would you be so kind as to disclose your server environment and audio chain? I've not had any gain from

running a second PC either as Roon or Euphony server to Stylus endpoint. For Roon, I have found that when using it the HQplayer option for Stylus endpoint does improve sound,

you might want to try that also.

[davide256]

Its possible to go down a "false trail" with digital audio, I did this with JPlay and AO which do a great job on transients and detail... but as I improved electronics I realized

that midrange was being "bleached", tone colors were weak and over shadowed by transients, kind of like having a band where the drummer plays over everyone else.

One of the very clear differences I can hear between Roon and Stylus server with Euphony is that midrange instruments have a natural decay with Stylus whereas

with Roon notes decay, drop to inaudibility too fast, very similar to what I experienced with JPlay and AO.