Sonore opticalModule v0.95 - discontinued

[Ultrarunner]

44 minutes ago, sahmen said:

So does the type of fiber optic cable one uses with the OM make a sonic difference?  If so, what would be the best sounding one to buy, according to forum consensus

 

Quickly wears heavy-duty body-protective gear, in case he is to receive shots from someone for asking such a question.

I’m going down that rabbit hole myself. I was wondering if optical cable would make a difference and thought about buying the Corning optical cable that Sonore sells. However, instead I just replaced the SFP modules in my EtherRegen and opticalRendu with single mode SFP modules, based on several posts suggesting this. That really did make a significant difference. So now I’ve ordered single mode optical cable to replace the multimode. 

[PYP]

5 minutes ago, Ultrarunner said:

 I just replaced the SFP modules in my EtherRegen and opticalRendu with single mode SFP modules, based on several posts suggesting this. That really did make a significant difference. So now I’ve ordered single mode optical cable to replace the multimode. 

 

Aren't the single mode SFP modules meant for very long runs of fiber?  Are/will you be using attenuators?  This seems counterintuitive to me...but stranger things have happened in the world today.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, PYP said:

...but stranger things have happened in the world today.

Indeed they have. It has been snowing like mad all day here in Mariposa (usually we just get a couple hours per year at our place), and the San Francisco Bay Area is under a "shelter-in-place" lockdown order.  Madness everywhere of course. Please stay safe and warm everyone.

[And for goodness sake people, stop hoarding the toilet paper!  Some of us really do need to go... ]

[Ultrarunner]

1 hour ago, PYP said:

 

Aren't the single mode SFP modules meant for very long runs of fiber?  Are/will you be using attenuators?  This seems counterintuitive to me...but stranger things have happened in the world today.

I may order attenuators. I’ll see what things sound like when the single mode cable arrives. Somewhere I read that a long coiled length of single mode cable would provide some attenuation by itself. 

[barrows]

Today, I went to Whole Foods (Boulder, CO).  Apparently Boulder County has made a policy of only 50 people allowed in the store at a time, so there was line which took about ten minutes to get inside.  That was not bad, but once inside an awful lot of food was just gone, really people, there is no need to hoard!  We are going to be at this for awhile, and groceries will be available.

 

Good news is that if you are practicing social distancing, and staying home, it is a perfect time for listening to music, a lot.  Perhaps it is even a good time for some long overdue system upgrades...

 

The official word from Sonore is to use OM-1 multi mode fiber, and be good with that, but even we like to experiment 😉.  I have used both OM-3 and OM-1, and right now I am trying single mode with Cisco SFP modules (1000 speed of course) and OS-2 single mode fiber (Corning).  There have been some reports around the Internet of folks preferring single mode with the Lumin's X-1, so I figured it was worth a try.  As a Sonore representative I will not say for sure single mode is "better", but it is certainly not worse, and I would be interested in hearing about others' experience trying different fiber cables and SFP modules.  The single mode SFP modules do not appear to use any more power than the multi mode ones, so no issues there.  And all this fiber stuff is pretty affordable for our purposes, so it is not a big financial risk to try different types.  As for possible explanations of how and why different types of fiber transmission might make a sonic difference, i would love to hear from any Networking experts on that.

 

Of course I just put in the single mode today, and it probably needs to break in to reveal its full potential...

[Solstice380]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

[And for goodness sake people, stop hoarding the toilet paper!  Some of us really do need to go... ]

 

I think it’s the people who are “full of it” who are hoarding the TP!

[Flashman]

Could I power the opticalModule with a DC5V@1 amp output?  I have this ability from my Keces P8 LPS, which has a USB output with this spec.  I had read that DC5V@1 amp output is the minimum power requirement, so I am thinking this will work...

 

 

[barrows]

6 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Could I power the opticalModule with a DC5V@1 amp output?  I have this ability from my Keces P8 LPS, which has a USB output with this spec.

 

 

Yes, that should work.  I would like to see closer to 1.5A max output, just to have a bit more headroom, but 1A at 5 VDC should work fine.  The oM consumes about 400-600 mA during playback, boot up is a probably a bit more, momentarily (hard to measure because boot current draw peak is very short term).

The Sonore Power Supply for the oM is rated 1.5A (and can provide peak currents well beyond this) and 5 VDC output.

[Flashman]

3 minutes ago, barrows said:

Yes, that should work.  I would like to see closer to 1.5A max output, just to have a bit more headroom, but 1A at 5 VDC should work fine.  The oM consumes about 400-600 mA during playback, boot up is a probably a bit more, momentarily (hard to measure because boot current draw peak is very short term).

The Sonore Power Supply for the oM is rated 1.5A (and can provide peak currents well beyond this) and 5 VDC output.

Excellent.  I will try the Keces to power it.  As an aside, how would I know in operation if it required more headroom? 

[barrows]

You should be fine, as long as it boots up with any difficulty, then in use it will use less current anyway.  If it has any issues powering up, then you know there is a problem, but I am almost certain 1A will be enough.  It kind of depends on the power supply as well, some may have overcurrent protection which kicks in right at its rating, others will allow for brief peaks of current output over their rating.

[Flashman]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

You should be fine, as long as it boots up with any difficulty, then in use it will use less current anyway.  If it has any issues powering up, then you know there is a problem, but I am almost certain 1A will be enough.  It kind of depends on the power supply as well, some may have overcurrent protection which kicks in right at its rating, others will allow for brief peaks of current output over their rating.

I appreciate your quick and helpful responses.  I have a back-up power supply should the Keces solution be inadequate.

[kennyb123]

21 hours ago, Ultrarunner said:

I’m going down that rabbit hole myself. I was wondering if optical cable would make a difference and thought about buying the Corning optical cable that Sonore sells. However, instead I just replaced the SFP modules in my EtherRegen and opticalRendu with single mode SFP modules, based on several posts suggesting this. That really did make a significant difference. So now I’ve ordered single mode optical cable to replace the multimode. 

 

The fiber that Sonore sells uses InfiniCor from Corning.  This was optimized for multimode, thus ideal for the SFPs that Sonore sells.  

[kennyb123]

20 hours ago, barrows said:

As a Sonore representative I will not say for sure single mode is "better", but it is certainly not worse, and I would be interested in hearing about others' experience trying different fiber cables and SFP modules.  The single mode SFP modules do not appear to use any more power than the multi mode ones, so no issues there.  And all this fiber stuff is pretty affordable for our purposes, so it is not a big financial risk to try different types.  As for possible explanations of how and why different types of fiber transmission might make a sonic difference, i would love to hear from any Networking experts on that.

 

Of course I just put in the single mode today, and it probably needs to break in to reveal its full potential...

 

I'm far from a networking expert, but I think Wikipedia gives us some clues:

 

"Because of the large core and also the possibility of large numerical aperture, multi-mode fiber has higher "light-gathering" capacity than single-mode fiber. In practical terms, the larger core size simplifies connections and also allows the use of lower-cost electronics such as light-emitting diodes (LEDs) and vertical-cavity surface-emitting lasers (VCSELs)..."

 

"Single-mode fibers are often used in high-precision scientific research because restricting the light to only one propagation mode allows it to be focused to an intense, diffraction-limited spot."

 

Lower cost electronics that are capable of lower precision could be a possible explanation for why multi-mode may not be as good of a fit for high end audio as single-mode.

[barrows]

8 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I'm far from a networking expert, but I think Wikipedia gives us some clues:

 

"Because of the large core and also the possibility of large numerical aperture, multi-mode fiber has higher "light-gathering" capacity than single-mode fiber. In practical terms, the larger core size simplifies connections and also allows the use of lower-cost electronics such as light-emitting diodes (LEDs) and vertical-cavity surface-emitting lasers (VCSELs)..."

 

"Single-mode fibers are often used in high-precision scientific research because restricting the light to only one propagation mode allows it to be focused to an intense, diffraction-limited spot."

 

Lower cost electronics that are capable of lower precision could be a possible explanation for why multi-mode may not be as good of a fit for high end audio as single-mode.

Yes, I have read the descriptions, but still do not have enough actual information as to if and how SMF might really make for an improvement.  I would like to know more about the internal SFP electronics I guess..  Anyone known a designer of SFPs?

[Flashman]

22 hours ago, Ultrarunner said:

I’m going down that rabbit hole myself. I was wondering if optical cable would make a difference and thought about buying the Corning optical cable that Sonore sells. However, instead I just replaced the SFP modules in my EtherRegen and opticalRendu with single mode SFP modules, based on several posts suggesting this. That really did make a significant difference. So now I’ve ordered single mode optical cable to replace the multimode. 

This optical area can be a rabbit hole!  After a little research on what to use with my etherREGEN, I decided to go the Sonore route with the oM, an additional transceiver (one comes bundled with the oM) and their Corning 1M fiber.  I paid more than going a generic route but I thought it was probably more prudent not to experiment.

 

In my research of single- vs. multimode-fiber, I found this:

"Multimode fiber has a relatively large light carrying core, usually 62.5 microns or larger in diameter. It is usually used for short distance transmissions with LED based fiber optic equipment. Single-mode fiber has a small light carrying core of 8 to 10 microns in diameter. It is normally used for long distance transmissions with laser diode based fiber optic transmission equipment."

 

I note that Sonore uses multimode fiber, which comports with the above, as it's typically used over a short distance.  Didn't I read somewhere that single mode fiber over short distances could overload the circuit, thus the reason for attenuators?  I could be quite wrong but why go the single mode route with attenuation when Sonore provides some simple direction?

 

Just my two cents...

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, Flashman said:

I could be quite wrong but why go the single mode route with attenuation when Sonore provides some simple direction?

I recommend all Sonore customers first get set up with OM-1 multimode fiber.  Then, if everything is working and sounding great, and one has an itch to experiment, it is pretty easy and affordable to do so.

 

Personally, i decided to experiment with SMF and SFPs because I read that some Lumin X-1 DAC users are preferring SMF for sound quality reasons.  I tried SMF, and for sure it is not worse (I am using no attenuators, and I have a 20 m run of OS-2 SMF), and maybe it is a smidge better (more natural sounding?) but do not quote me on that, as I could easily imagine a difference this small in the short term.  In any case, I am going to keep the SMF set up in place for long term evaluation.

 

Note that one has to replace both SFP transceivers with specific single mode fiber ones, and then get single mode fiber cable.  These parts all need to be matching for proper operation.

[Flashman]

11 minutes ago, barrows said:

I recommend all Sonore customers first get set up with OM-1 multimode fiber.  Then, if everything is working and sounding great, and one has an itch to experiment, it is pretty easy and affordable to do so.

 

Personally, i decided to experiment with SMF and SFPs because I read that some Lumin X-1 DAC users are preferring SMF for sound quality reasons.  I tried SMF, and for sure it is not worse (I am using no attenuators, and I have a 20 m run of OS-2 SMF), and maybe it is a smidge better (more natural sounding?) but do not quote me on that, as I could easily imagine a difference this small in the short term.  In any case, I am going to keep the SMF set up in place for long term evaluation.

 

Note that one has to replace both SFP transceivers with specific single mode fiber ones, and then get single mode fiber cable.  These parts all need to be matching for proper operation.

Keep us posted on your journey.  I have a 30-day return on the Sonore stuff so I could easily swap out the modules and the fiber if there were reports of better SQ with a different approach.

[barrows]

2 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Keep us posted on your journey.  I have a 30-day return on the Sonore stuff so I could easily swap out the modules and the fiber if there were reports of better SQ with a different approach.

I would rather not be the person to count on for subjective difference reports, as any differences (if at all), are quite subtle, and may not be definitive.  But I would like to welcome customers experimenting with different fiber types to report their findings here.

The reason for this is in these days of objective/subjective wars, one can come under attack from any side (or both), and this is not a good position for a manufacturer's representative to be in (damned if you, damned if you do not).  I find the whole "dichotomy" rather ridiculous, as well as the apparent need to be "right", after all, measurements are critical to designing the best possible gear, but so is listening, and these two things are hardly in opposition to each other!

[Flashman]

1 minute ago, barrows said:

I would rather not be the person to count on for subjective difference reports, as any differences (if at all), are quite subtle, and may not be definitive.  But I would like to welcome customers experimenting with different fiber types to report their findings here.

The reason for this is in these days of objective/subjective wars, one can come under attack from any side (or both), and this is not a good position for a manufacturer's representative to be in (damned if you, damned if you do not).  I find the whole "dichotomy" rather ridiculous, as well as the apparent need to be "right", after all, measurements are critical to designing the best possible gear, but so is listening, and these two things are hardly in opposition to each other!

Well said.  Let's hope some people chime in. 

[jabbr]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:56 PM, barrows said:

The reason for this is in these days of objective/subjective wars, one can come under attack from any side (or both), and this is not a good position for a manufacturer's representative to be in (damned if you, damned if you do not).  I find the whole "dichotomy" rather ridiculous, as well as the apparent need to be "right", after all, measurements are critical to designing the best possible gear, but so is listening, and these two things are hardly in opposition to each other!

I, for one, would welcome your impressions. I think, maybe, maybe, I have a very slight preference for single mode, but then again I didn’t test blinded. I did wire my house single mode because it scales up ie same fiber for 40, 100 and up Gbe ... also the electronics are better so ... I wouldn’t be surprised if some cheap generic SFP modules are noisier than genuine or Finisar or Avago modules but who knows. 

[vortecjr]

1 minute ago, jabbr said:

I, for one, would welcome your impressions. I think, maybe, maybe, I have a very slight preference for single mode, but then again I didn’t test blinded. I did wire my house single mode because it scales up ie same fiber for 40, 100 and up Gbe ... also the electronics are better so ... I wouldn’t be surprised if some cheap generic SFP modules are noisier than genuine or Finisar or Avago modules but who knows. 

The fiber SFP transceivers are very simple and I'm not really concerned about noise with them. The Ethernet SPF transceivers are much more complex comparatively speaking.  

[kennyb123]

In case you missed it, here’s an excellent write-up that speaks very positively of the OM:

 

 

[Flashman]

I received my Sonore package yesterday (oM, extra transceiver to connect to etherREGEN and 1M Corning glass fiber) and installed it in my system.  It was dead simple and I was up and running in 5 minutes.  (I also received a short Ethernet cable but don't know why; I guess maybe to connect the router to the oM.)  By the way, I am powering the oM with the USB output of my Keces P8 LPS.  It's rated at 5V@1amp.  Works great.

 

First impressions were quite good.  That's all I will say until I do further listening.  One surprise: Roon albums now load much more quickly.  Don't know why that would be the case as the speed of my system has not increased. 

 

I rather doubt I will be testing different SFPs and fiber cables, as the sound is quite good as is.  I guess with further burn-in I will like it even more.

 

Hat's off to Sonore for taking the guesswork out of the equation.  Yes, it was a bit more expensive than going a generic route but given the overall cost of my system, it was a pittance.

[vortecjr]

20 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

In case you missed it, here’s an excellent write-up that speaks very positively of the OM:

 

 

Grounding the opticalModule as described in that post is not effective because there is no electrical connection between the enclosure screws and the main board. The proper way to shunt the DC negative to AC ground is to use an iFi Audio Ground Hog with spade converter or equivalent.

[charlesphoto]

On 3/5/2020 at 9:21 PM, kennyb123 said:

My opticalModule arrived this afternoon.  It replaced my upstream Startech FMC, with an EtherRegen used downstream.  It was up and running in no time with the Planet Tech 1000BASE-LX SFPs.  I’ll share my impressions once I’ve spent some more time with it.

 

Hi Kenny,

 

Looked on their site and many SFP's to choose from. Which model did you go with?

 

Best,

 

CP