Sonore opticalModule v0.95 - discontinued

[PYP]

I have zero experience with optical stuff, but installation was easy.  Copper ethernet > oM > fiber out > etherRegen > copper ethernet > DAC (Roon endpoint).  Turned on the power (oM and eR powered by JS-2, 7v and 12v respectively) and Roon saw the DAC.  That is always good.  

 

Will let it settle in, but was listening to sitar music and it sounds very relaxed and natural.  Will take a while to figure out what this brings to the music, but I don't hear anything harsh/weird or anything reduced in naturalness or size.  So far, so good.

 

The only strange thing to me was that the unit has no feet.  But it is small and fits on the mini-platform that also supports the eR.  They are getting along just fine.  

[seaharp1]

23 minutes ago, PYP said:

oM and eR powered by JS-2, 7v

I thought the OM was recommended at 5v...They are using rubber bands included instead of feet… Mine had them today delivered.

[PYP]

36 minutes ago, seaharp1 said:

I thought the OM was recommended at 5v...They are using rubber bands included instead of feet… Mine had them today delivered.

 

Thanks.  That is what those bands are for!  Just left them in the box.  As obvious as connections are, I do think a simple drawing would be a good idea (adding the bands and orientation of the fiber connector).  

 

The website says:  Power input: 5-9 VDC.  

 

[vortecjr]

The lower voltage allows the unit to run cooler.

 

The rubber feet fall off overtime and get lost...the rubber bands are much better in this regard. I don’t actually have any because I’m using an early prototype enclosure here:) Can someone post an image of the unit with the rubber bands for others to reference?

[PYP]

12 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

The lower voltage allows the unit to run cooler.

 

Would 5v be the ideal, then?  Thanks. 

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, PYP said:

 

Would 5v be the ideal, then?  Thanks. 

5 VDC is fine. 

[kennyb123]

My opticalModule arrived this afternoon.  It replaced my upstream Startech FMC, with an EtherRegen used downstream.  It was up and running in no time with the Planet Tech 1000BASE-LX SFPs.  I’ll share my impressions once I’ve spent some more time with it.

[Steffenegede]

On 1/24/2020 at 6:23 PM, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

Just received an Allo Shanti with both 5v/1A and 5v/3A so will give both a try in time.  I'm running DSD 512 so likely on the higher side I guess (50mbit/s).

Hi, how did the Allo Shanti turn out? I've been thinking of getting one myself for the oM I just received a couple of days ago. Also, to anyone able to answer, will the galvanic isolation on the Allo Shanti outputs make it suitable for powering two oM's? Just in case I'll get one for the upstream connection :-)

[guiltyboxswapper]

@Steffenegede I believe the Shanti dual outputs are galvanic isolated, and both can run the oM no problem (tested both).  Seems good so far, though not compared to much else but a ground shunted IFI ipower at 5v. 

 

It is however passing on changes upstream from the ER which I've just added an MPAudio HPULN LSIB type less than 24hrs ago, so guess its doing a decent enough job.

[Steffenegede]

6 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

@Steffenegede I believe the Shanti dual outputs are galvanic isolated, and both can run the oM no problem (tested both).  Seems good so far, though not compared to much else but a ground shunted IFI ipower at 5v. 

 

It is however passing on changes upstream from the ER which I've just added an MPAudio HPULN LSIB type less than 24hrs ago, so guess its doing a decent enough job.

Thanks 🙂 guess I'll try it out. Atm the oM is connected via a cisco 2960 switch, using the sfp, but the plan is to get two oM's eventually and use the Allo Shanti on both. With the galvanic isolated outputs, to my understanding, it should be ok. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong 😉

[barrows]

I took a look at the descriptions of the Shanti.  It looks like it would be OK to use the two outputs and consider them "isolated", but I would caution folks that this will not produce the absolute best performance.

Isolation is rarely (never really) complete, and the Shanti is a good example of a way to talk about this.  The Shanti produces two "isolated" outputs by using a single transformer, with two secondaries.  This means that the two secondaries, while using completely separated wire coils, will still share some noise through capacitive coupling from one secondary to another.  More complete isolation would be provided by a supply which used two separate transformers, and even better isolation would be provided by using fully separate supplies, in separate boxes, with separate power cables.  Even better isolation than that would be provided by two separate supplies, with two separate power cables, plugged into two separate circuits.  Even better isolation than that would be provided by two separate supplies, with two separate power cables, plugged into two separate circuits, where the two circuits were on opposite phases of the homes AC distribution.

 

So, one can see that "isolation" is always a matter of degree, rather than being "absolute".  

 

The one other thing which concerns me about the Shanti, is that by its description, it appears to rely on capacitance after the regulator to define the output impedance (ability to respond to quick current spikes) as they claim LDOs (low dropout regulators) have poor transient response.  Well, only some LDOs have poor transient response.  Really good voltage regulation circuits have much better transient response than any capacitor, and the best power supplies will be designed with a really good voltage regulator, followed by a very small amount of capacitance (as the capacitance will tend to "slow" the response of a really good regulator).  While the Shanti appears to be a well designed power supply, and seems to be a bargain at its price, higher performance can be achieved by using a power supply designed specifically to provide the lowest output impedance (speed) possible.  This is no criticism of the Shanti, at its price it appears to offer great value; the truth is, there is some degree of getting what you pay for here: really good parts cost more (like ultra low noise, ultra low output impedance regulators), and even when you make things in Asia you have to pay more for the best possible parts.

[Steffenegede]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

I took a look at the descriptions of the Shanti.  It looks like it would be OK to use the two outputs and consider them "isolated", but I would caution folks that this will not produce the absolute best performance.

Isolation is rarely (never really) complete, and the Shanti is a good example of a way to talk about this.  The Shanti produces two "isolated" outputs by using a single transformer, with two secondaries.  This means that the two secondaries, while using completely separated wire coils, will still share some noise through capacitive coupling from one secondary to another.  More complete isolation would be provided by a supply which used two separate transformers, and even better isolation would be provided by using fully separate supplies, in separate boxes, with separate power cables.  Even better isolation than that would be provided by two separate supplies, with two separate power cables, plugged into two separate circuits.  Even better isolation than that would be provided by two separate supplies, with two separate power cables, plugged into two separate circuits, where the two circuits were on opposite phases of the homes AC distribution.

 

So, one can see that "isolation" is always a matter of degree, rather than being "absolute".  

 

The one other thing which concerns me about the Shanti, is that by its description, it appears to rely on capacitance after the regulator to define the output impedance (ability to respond to quick current spikes) as they claim LDOs (low dropout regulators) have poor transient response.  Well, only some LDOs have poor transient response.  Really good voltage regulation circuits have much better transient response than any capacitor, and the best power supplies will be designed with a really good voltage regulator, followed by a very small amount of capacitance (as the capacitance will tend to "slow" the response of a really good regulator).  While the Shanti appears to be a well designed power supply, and seems to be a bargain at its price, higher performance can be achieved by using a power supply designed specifically to provide the lowest output impedance (speed) possible.  This is no criticism of the Shanti, at its price it appears to offer great value; the truth is, there is some degree of getting what you pay for here: really good parts cost more (like ultra low noise, ultra low output impedance regulators), and even when you make things in Asia you have to pay more for the best possible parts.

👍 I remember reading about this somewhere, but wasn't sure if the galvanic isolation was "good enough". I have 4 dedicated outlets for my system... 1: router, laptop(cheap linear), cisco switch 2: Opticalmodule, Microrendu(lps 1.2) 3: Dac 4: Amp. I have no power conditioning.. been playing around with different power conditioners, but this is the best configuration.. so far. I might throw in some conditioning on the 1st router circuit. Luckily I haven't purchased anything for the oM yet, and two separate linear psu's for the oM's, with the upstream oM on the 1st router circuit seems a better option now. Any suggestions on a single output, somewhat cheap ($200), linear psu for the oM vs Allo Shanti? 😉  

[barrows]

As I work with Sonore, I really do not have much (if any) direct experience with power supplies from other companies, as I just use Sonore supplies, or custom supplies suited for the purpose.  Generally, though, i can say that to a point you get what you pay for in power supplies, there are good performance reasons that the more expensive supplies cost what they do.   Ultimately, a supply such as the Shanti may be all one "needs" though, if one can define that!

 

As for general set up, with Ethernet (optical or CAT 6A) I like to see the computer gears away from the audio system as much as possible: this is the big benefit of Ethernet, as it allows for long distances without any concern for transmission quality.  I like just having all the "less clean" stuff (servers, routers, switches, their power supplies)  away from the audio system on a separate circuit (hopefully in another room, closet, basement, etc), then with an opticalModule there, and then a long run of optical cable to the audio system with an opticalRendu/Signature Rendu, etc.  This way the audio system is all made for audio, low noise, low emissions stuff, running on a  clean circuit branch.  So I like to see the set up as two sides: one where the commercial computer gear is (noisy side), and one where the audio system is (all made for audio gear hopefully with very low noise circuitry) and the two sides are isolated by the optical link between them.

[Steffenegede]

That's the way I'm trying to set up the system. The noisy parts are in the router room. Thanks for explaining, I'll look around a bit while the oM is burning in. I'm using a 5v smps from the drawers with a ground shunt and still it sounds amazing.. can't wait to see what a better psu can do 🙂

[kennyb123]

My opticalModule has been here for a little over a week.  I’m very pleased with how it benefitted my system.  It replaced a Startech FMC on the upstream side with an EtherRegen downstream.  When comparing the two I found that the Startech actually made it seem as though the OM wasn’t revealing as much detail.  But after many swaps I concluded that noise was adding a harder edge to images.  Rob Watts the Chord designer often cautions about this kind of noise as it can cause some to favor that noise because they think it’s revealing more detail.  Rob’s answer to that is “darker is better” and in the case of the OM he’s exactly right. 
 

What really showed me how much I appreciated the OM was hearing that a friend purchased one for himself. You see, I promised to send him mine to play with.  A feeling of relief came to me when I learned that I wouldn’t have to temporarily go back to the Startech FMC.  That edge becomes fatiguing - so much so that I needed to use attenuators when using Planet Tech SFPs with that FMC.  No need for those with the OM.

 

So big thanks to the good folks at Sonore for bringing us the OM.  At some point I’ll give it an even better power supply.  At present I’m using an “el cheapo” supply from China.

[barrows]

@kennyb123, interesting take on ow to evaluate subjectively.  Nice.  Figuring out smaller, but meaningful differences can be difficult.  I do not think so much of "darker", but I feel l'm getting somewhere when things feel like they are slowing down a bit, while revealing more low level details.  I suspect this happens when fidelity is improved because the brain relaxes a bit more when it is working less hard (less brain DSP) to sort out the music.

[kennyb123]

50 minutes ago, barrows said:

@kennyb123, interesting take on ow to evaluate subjectively.  Nice.  Figuring out smaller, but meaningful differences can be difficult.  I do not think so much of "darker", but I feel l'm getting somewhere when things feel like they are slowing down a bit, while revealing more low level details.  I suspect this happens when fidelity is improved because the brain relaxes a bit more when it is working less hard (less brain DSP) to sort out the music.

 

I agree with the brain relaxing a bit more but sometimes it takes a bit of effort to allow ourselves to relax when doing A/B comparisons.  Here are some thoughts I shared with friends about the FMC comparisons:

“Switching to the Startech I found myself taken aback as there was more detail present.  The OM was darker in comparison, but also fuller and more focused.  What came to mind was Rob Watts saying “darker is better” and his caution about noise contributing to more perceived detail.  The OM was darker for sure and much of that was because the background was blacker.”

 

“When I first started reporting the differences with fiber attenuators I mentioned how using too little seemed to tip the frequency balance toward the treble.  This was the same thing that was happening with the Startech FMC. And I think my initial reaction to this is a lot like the initial reaction we might have to the brightest TV on a showroom floor.  Our eyes are drawn to it, thinking we see better.  It takes some active thinking though to compensate for the brightness difference and look past it to properly judge picture quality.  This was my experience with this particular comparison.“

 

The net of it is there may be some who favor the Startech because of the apparent extra detail.  
 

Many years ago a friend let me borrow his Benchark DAC 1.  I was blown away by the amount of detail but ultimately reached the conclusion that the apparent detail was because it was adding some etching.  It was fatiguing to me so it didn’t last long in my system.  A lot of people liked that DAC though, which was very surprising to me.

 

[PYP]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

 but I feel l'm getting somewhere when things feel like they are slowing down a bit, while revealing more low level details.  

 

Interesting.  I have the same reaction when the SQ is improved significantly.  After many years, I don't really evaluate new gear in the classic sense of comparison, I just wait for the "relaxation response," which is actually more reliable and happens more quickly than hearing improvements (for me, that is).   The wait can sometimes be long as gear settles in.  For whatever reason, with the oM, the relaxation was immediate.   I do find that it is still settling in and not fully at the point of that immediate response, but am confident it will.  

[barrows]

10 hours ago, PYP said:

 

Interesting.  I have the same reaction when the SQ is improved significantly.  After many years, I don't really evaluate new gear in the classic sense of comparison, I just wait for the "relaxation response," which is actually more reliable and happens more quickly than hearing improvements (for me, that is).   The wait can sometimes be long as gear settles in.  For whatever reason, with the oM, the relaxation was immediate.   I do find that it is still settling in and not fully at the point of that immediate response, but am confident it will.  

Yup, totally agreed here.  This  idea also feeds into my own ideas about listening, and how the best listening sessions occur when we are able to fully relax, and directly connect with the music (not the system, or even the system's portrayal of the music, but the actual music itself, reaching its deeper meanings).  what really becomes interesting to me, is that very small changes in playback performance seem to be able to allow the listener to move a cross a threshold, where on one side of that threshold one is listening to the playback system, and on the other side, one is listening to the music.  Of course the state of the listener is also critical to being able to cross that threshold.

[PYP]

56 minutes ago, barrows said:

  Of course the state of the listener is also critical to being able to cross that threshold.

 

Some folks, for good reason, say the room is the last component in the chain, but it is actually (obviously) the listener.  I always find that listening after a good workout, or extended time outdoors, is very satisfying.   So, not to get on the soapbox for too long, but if we incessantly tweak our systems but forget to care for ourselves, we won't realize all that music can offer us.  

[Superdad]

52 minutes ago, PYP said:

...but if we incessantly tweak our systems but forget to care for ourselves, we won't realize all that music can offer us.  

Well sure. I often tweak myself before listening to music. 

[vortecjr]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Well sure. I often tweak myself before listening to music. 

Does some wine count as self tweaking:)

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, vortecjr said:

Does some wine count as self tweaking:)

You bet! And a lot of wine slows the notes down nicely.

[sahmen]

Wait!  I'm used to enjoying the effect of coming home with body and mind all discombobulated, turning on the music, and allowing it to go to work on the body and mind, untying all the emotional knots, loosening the muscles, and calming all areas of unnecessary confusion, perturbations, or turbulence. In short, I am used to my body getting tweaked, with the music doing all the tweaking...

 

Now if you guys are suggesting that the body should be tweaked first before the music, then Houston, we've got a problem, I'm afraid, not to mention utterly confused😀.

 

As for the last frontier in the chain, I'm afraid that could also be quite the moving target... Depending on the moment, or circumstances, it could be the source, the speakers, the quality of your headphones, your body and/or mental state, the wine or beverage in your glass, the quality of the tobacco or weed in your pipe (I hope the word "weed" is not illegal on this forum), the last words you heard from your partner or better half, or (to keep things on topic) the quality of your network switching set up...

 

I'm sure I could even add more variables if I tried.  Yes great sound quality is quite the elusive and mysterious target, but I personally wouldn't have it any other way🙂

[sahmen]

So does the type of fiber optic cable one uses with the OM make a sonic difference?  If so, what would be the best sounding one to buy, according to forum consensus

 

Quickly wears heavy-duty body-protective gear, in case he is to receive shots from someone for asking such a question.