Sonore opticalModule v0.95 - discontinued

[kennyb123]

9 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Thats a goofy setup. Why isolate a second router when you can simply isolate the endpoint.

That room is quite a distance from the house.  The router in the music room likely provides that room with WiFi.  Using fiber instead of copper for that long leg wasn’t a bad idea.

[vortecjr]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

That room is quite a distance from the house.  The router in the music room likely provides that room with WiFi.  Using fiber instead of copper for that long leg wasn’t a bad idea.

Okay...that makes sense. 

[alexreusch]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:41 AM, Ultrarunner said:

I’m going down that rabbit hole myself. I was wondering if optical cable would make a difference and thought about buying the Corning optical cable that Sonore sells. However, instead I just replaced the SFP modules in my EtherRegen and opticalRendu with single mode SFP modules, based on several posts suggesting this. That really did make a significant difference. So now I’ve ordered single mode optical cable to replace the multimode. 

No, the cables don't make any difference on audio performance. The idea of going optical is to get galvanic isolation which prevents electrical noise to get into the opticalRendu. The optical solution does this perfectly, independent which cable type or SFP's you are going to use. It delivers digital data free of any electrical noise, which can then be processed by the optidalRendu.

 

All you have to take care about cables and SFP's is, that they match. You cannot use a multimode cable with a singlemode (monomode) SFP and vice versa. The difference between all those cables and SFP models is in general the maximum cable length. Single mode uses a high precision laser and longer wavelength, which allows cable lengths of many kilometers (and miles). I would assume that this is normally not needed. I think most of us can live with cable lengths of 10-20 meters and therefore, multimode is just fine. The multimode SFP that comes per default in the opticalRendu is a tp-link SM311LM, which works fine with multimode cables with 62,5 micron core diameter (up to 275m cable lenght) as well as 50 micron core diameter (up to 550m cable length). I think this should be just fine for most of us. There will be no benefit going with single mode, other than being able to go for larger distances. But it's still a digital signal (perfect galvanic isolated). As long as you are staying within the specified limits, they will deliver all the same results (0 and 1's).

[Ultrarunner]

@alexreusch Not so. There is a major benefit to going single mode. I’ve tried two different sets of single mode modules (StarTech and Planet). Both sound significantly better than the multimode SFP module that comes with the opticalRendu. 

[alexreusch]

7 hours ago, Ultrarunner said:

@alexreusch Not so. There is a major benefit to going single mode. I’ve tried two different sets of single mode modules (StarTech and Planet). Both sound significantly better than the multimode SFP module that comes with the opticalRendu. 

OK. But then I would suggest you to try an original Cisco SFP, as this is the real deal:

https://www.connection.com/product/cisco-1000base-zx-sfp-smf-1550nm-dom-transceiver/glc-zx-smd/15392887

 

Jokes aside, using single mode over short distances can be counter productive. When shorter distances of single mode fiber (SMF) are used, it might be necessary to insert an inline optical attenuator in the link to avoid overloading the receiver. Keep in mind: single mode fiber is made for very long distance situations.

 

Have a look at the Cisco documentation here:

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/interfaces-modules/gigabit-ethernet-gbic-sfp-modules/datasheet-c78-366584.html

The 1000BASE-ZX module in my link above (specified for distances of up to 70km) has a transmit power range (dBm) of +5 to 0. But the maximum receive power range (dBm) is -3 to -23. For single mode fiber, the attenuation (signal loss) is about 0.4 dB per km for 1550 nm. So in this case, just to be on the save side, the minimum cable lenght would be 20km!!! According to the documentation, A 10-dB inline optical attenuator should be inserted between the fiber-optic cable plant and the receiving port on the SFP at each end of the link whenever the fiber-optic cable span loss is less than 8 dB. Funny isn't it? That's exaclty the attenuation for 20km. 😀

 

As you can see, you cannot just use any SFP and cable length without knowing the specifications.

My suggestion would be to use the fiber type appropriate to the application. For distances of 550m or less, use multimode.

[guiltyboxswapper]

2 hours ago, alexreusch said:

As you can see, you cannot just use any SFP and cable length without knowing the specifications.

 

Well actually, you can. 

 

I'm using the same Planet MGB TLX modules for months now between the oM and oR.  As noted by others, the audible difference is not subtle compared to the original in-spec TP-link modules.  

 

Most places have a try at home scheme for 7-14 days, I'd suggest others give it a try.

[Dasign]

Quote

3 hours ago, alexreusch said:

OK. But then I would suggest you to try an original Cisco SFP, as this is the real deal:

https://www.connection.com/product/cisco-1000base-zx-sfp-smf-1550nm-dom-transceiver/glc-zx-smd/15392887

 

Jokes aside, using single mode over short distances can be counter productive. When shorter distances of single mode fiber (SMF) are used, it might be necessary to insert an inline optical attenuator in the link to avoid overloading the receiver. Keep in mind: single mode fiber is made for very long distance situations.

 

Have a look at the Cisco documentation here:

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/interfaces-modules/gigabit-ethernet-gbic-sfp-modules/datasheet-c78-366584.html

The 1000BASE-ZX module in my link above (specified for distances of up to 70km) has a transmit power range (dBm) of +5 to 0. But the maximum receive power range (dBm) is -3 to -23. For single mode fiber, the attenuation (signal loss) is about 0.4 dB per km for 1550 nm. So in this case, just to be on the save side, the minimum cable lenght would be 20km!!! According to the documentation, A 10-dB inline optical attenuator should be inserted between the fiber-optic cable plant and the receiving port on the SFP at each end of the link whenever the fiber-optic cable span loss is less than 8 dB. Funny isn't it? That's exaclty the attenuation for 20km. 😀

 

As you can see, you cannot just use any SFP and cable length without knowing the specifications.

My suggestion would be to use the fiber type appropriate to the application. For distances of 550m or less, use multimode.

 

Alexreusch, just want to clarify fiber optic path loss calculation. When you design a fiber optic path, the math is the following; Use the optical path distance * fiber loss/km to calculate total path loss. For a 20 km single mode fiber network, the total path loss is 8 dB.

 

In our case, it is very unlikely that someone will need a fiber optic spool of 20 km for a residential audio system. So for a single mode fiber network, we are now concerned with meeting the SFP/fiber receiver transmit/receive power. From à design standpoint, our worst case scenario would be a Tx power of +5 dBm and receiver minimum power of -3 dBm, which indicates a minimum path loss of 8 dB for the system to operate within specs. Since there could be some variance in Tx/Rx transmit/receive power specifications, it would be wise to use a 10 dB attenuation between the Tx and Rx.

 

However, there is no technical reason (strictly from a network design standpoint) to use single mode fiber for a residential fiber network. Like you said, you need to use appropriate SFP/fiber mode. I cannot comment on the audio benefits of using single mode fiber since I have not tried it, but all I can say is that my OpticalModule/ OpticalRendu combo just sound fantastic using the recommended Sonore SFP and multi mode fiber. 

[guiltyboxswapper]

35 minutes ago, Dasign said:

Like you said, you need to use appropriate SFP/fiber mode.

 

Like many of us have said, no you don't.  Not exactly expensive to try either for those curious.  

 

Theory is not always correct.

[Dasign]

Guiltyboxswapper, I’m just worried about audiophiles who would purchase a single mode fiber gear without considering path loss/Tx/Rx operational considerations. My comment about proper SFP/fiber mode is to avoid mixing single mode fiber with multi-mode SFP. 

 

If curious audiophiles find that single mode fiber networks sounds better, I’m all for it.
 

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, Dasign said:

I cannot comment on the audio benefits of using single mode fiber since I have not tried it, but all I can say is that my OpticalModule/ OpticalRendu combo just sound fantastic using the recommended Sonore SFP and multi mode fiber. 

Enjoy!

[guiltyboxswapper]

28 minutes ago, Dasign said:

Guiltyboxswapper, I’m just worried about audiophiles who would purchase a single mode fiber gear without considering path loss/Tx/Rx operational considerations. My comment about proper SFP/fiber mode is to avoid mixing single mode fiber with multi-mode SFP. 

 

OK, i cant argue with that - stick to one mode or another agreed.  Mixing modes will not function.  But I repeat this message as quite frankly the TP-Link multi-mode stuff whilst might work, does leave a lot on the table.  And its a really cheap and quick thing to try unlike some of the crazy stuff recommended.

[alexreusch]

3 hours ago, Dasign said:

Guiltyboxswapper, I’m just worried about audiophiles who would purchase a single mode fiber gear without considering path loss/Tx/Rx operational considerations. My comment about proper SFP/fiber mode is to avoid mixing single mode fiber with multi-mode SFP. 

 

If curious audiophiles find that single mode fiber networks sounds better, I’m all for it.
 

Thanks for clarifying. That's exactly what I was trying to explain. If you select randomly a single mode SFP, you could end up with using stuff outside of the supported specifications. This is what my example was showing: This specific SFP (Cisco 1000BASE-ZX) cannot be used for short distances of a few meters, without adding an inline optical attenuator.

 

So if somebody bought single mode SFP's without knowing the specs and it worked, than all I can say is: Lucky guy!

[jabbr]

1000Base-ZX is not a typical single mode module — be sure it is: 1000base-LX for single mode (L for long)

[barrows]

4 hours ago, Dasign said:

Guiltyboxswapper, I’m just worried about audiophiles who would purchase a single mode fiber gear without considering path loss/Tx/Rx operational considerations. My comment about proper SFP/fiber mode is to avoid mixing single mode fiber with multi-mode SFP. 

 

If curious audiophiles find that single mode fiber networks sounds better, I’m all for it.
 

 

I am curious, if one is to use SMF in a domestic situation, without any attenuators, what would the expected result be?  Lots of companies sell SMF cable in pre-terminated standard lengths of as short as a couple of meters...

Here I am experimenting with SMF, with a run of 23 meters, and Cisco SMF SFPs, with no apparent "problems", and excellent sound quality, and no known "problems", without the use of any attenuators-but I have not monitored the Network traffic.

 

Can any Networking experts provide an explanation what kind of "problems" one might expect to encounter running SMF at shorter lengths without any attenuation?

[alexreusch]

45 minutes ago, barrows said:

 

I am curious, if one is to use SMF in a domestic situation, without any attenuators, what would the expected result be?  Lots of companies sell SMF cable in pre-terminated standard lengths of as short as a couple of meters...

Here I am experimenting with SMF, with a run of 23 meters, and Cisco SMF SFPs, with no apparent "problems", and excellent sound quality, and no known "problems", without the use of any attenuators-but I have not monitored the Network traffic.

 

Can any Networking experts provide an explanation what kind of "problems" one might expect to encounter running SMF at shorter lengths without any attenuation?

Just check the specifications of your SFP's on the Cisco website. You might be just fine, depending of the specs. If you are using Cisco 1000BASE-LX SFP's, then the specs say: -3 to -9.5 dB for Tx and -3 to -20 dB for Rx with a maximum channel insertion loss of 6 dB. The same for BX modules, even if the specs are different. The situation looks different when using EX or ZX modules. Here you will need attenuators.

[Dasign]

barrows, when using a Tx/Rx out of their power level specification range, there could potentially be some optical saturation at the Rx device. No idea how this would impact the audio quality. However, if I was to install SM fiber network, I would  make sure that I respect the maximum optical input level at the Rx.

[barrows]

The Cisco SFPs I ma using are LX for sure...

[Ultrarunner]

15 hours ago, alexreusch said:

OK. But then I would suggest you to try an original Cisco SFP, as this is the real deal:

https://www.connection.com/product/cisco-1000base-zx-sfp-smf-1550nm-dom-transceiver/glc-zx-smd/15392887

 

Wow! I hadn’t realized one could spend $2,877 on an SFP.
 

I get what you’re saying about distance and attenuation. That’s why I bought the lower-powered Planet SFP’s (thanks to the suggestion of kennyb123 and others). 
 

The opticalRendu sounds just fine with SFP supplied. But it’s cheap to give the Planet SFPs a try. You don’t even need to change your cable at first. Multimode optical cable will work with single mode SFP’s (although I would recommend switching the cable at some point). 

[jabbr]

15 hours ago, alexreusch said:

OK. But then I would suggest you to try an original Cisco SFP, as this is the real deal:

https://www.connection.com/product/cisco-1000base-zx-sfp-smf-1550nm-dom-transceiver/glc-zx-smd/15392887

 

Jokes aside, using single mode over short distances can be counter productive. When shorter distances of single mode fiber (SMF) are used, it might be necessary to insert an inline optical attenuator in the link to avoid overloading the receiver. Keep in mind: single mode fiber is made for very long distance situations.

 

That's a ZX! -- not a typical LX which is really the only singlemode that should be used. No need for attenuators with 1000base-LX ... of course you can get a meter, like I have ... mostly to be sure I haven't borked a fiber after I've threaded through my ceiling, to my attic, down a laundry chute to the basement and then across the basement ceiling to the server room  You can also use end-end keystone jacks like a normal network wiring ... for those of you who might ever want to run parallel lanes frequency multiplexed via a single duplex single mode cable, single mode has the future proof capability, and the cables are cheaper  

[sahmen]

Sorry if this issue has been addressed before, but how well does the Opticalmodule respond to different power supply units?  I am currently using mine with the SGC 5v LPS unit, and the OM itself is hooked up to an etherregen.  I'm just wondering whether using a different LPS unit on the OM could help boost the SQ of the grid, however little.  I have to insist that I really see or hear nothing particulalry wrong with the way the rig sounds at the moment.  I just want to know whether one can improve the SQ even more by swapping power supplies on the OM, as one can by swapping PS units on the Etherregen.

[vortecjr]

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

Sorry if this issue has been addressed before, but how well does the Opticalmodule respond to different power supply units?  I am currently using mine with the SGC 5v LPS unit, and the OM itself is hooked up to an etherregen.  I'm just wondering whether using a different LPS unit on the OM could help boost the SQ of the grid, however little.  I have to insist that I really see or hear nothing particulalry wrong with the way the rig sounds at the moment.  I just want to know whether one can improve the SQ even more by swapping power supplies on the OM, as one can by swapping PS units on the Etherregen.

How is the oM actually connected to the eR...fiber?

[Flashman]

2 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

How is the oM actually connected to the eR...fiber?

Is there a different way to connect an oM to an eR?  I thought the whole purpose of the oM was to introduce fiber into the equation.

[sahmen]

7 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

How is the oM actually connected to the eR...fiber?

Yes, it is connected by fiber.

[sahmen]

7 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Is there a different way to connect an oM to an eR?  I thought the whole purpose of the oM was to introduce fiber into the equation.

Just in case you're not asking a rhetorical question: I think it is possible to reverse the directionality of the OM and connect it to the ER using an RJ45 copper cable. It is even possible to use two OMs connected via fibre in the same chain, with each other side connected via RJ45, either to a router, or to the ER. I personally wouldn't connect an OM using either approach, as they do not suit my particular needs, but  I wouldn't be surprised other enthusiasts are already using one or the other configuration.

[vortecjr]

56 minutes ago, sahmen said:

Just in case you're not asking a rhetorical question: I think it is possible to reverse the directionality of the OM and connect it to the ER using an RJ45 copper cable. It is even possible to use two OMs connected via fibre in the same chain, with each other side connected via RJ45, either to a router, or to the ER. I personally wouldn't connect an OM using either approach, as they do not suit my particular needs, but  I wouldn't be surprised other enthusiasts are already using one or the other configuration.

Don’t be surprised:) You could try the Sonore power supply.