mkrzych Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nico said: Very interesting point and question. Did Damien explain somewhere why he doesn't offer a dither function? Exactly, @damien78? -- Krzysztof Maj http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/ "Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata Link to comment
Jud Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 From my reading, the most common opinion I have run across is that when converting 32-bit to 24-bit, dither is advised unless converting from 32-bit float. I should mention I haven't run across this issue in my own listening. My DAC (like most these days) uses 32 bits internally, and I send it DSD anyway. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
copy_of_a Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Nico said: Very interesting point and question. Did Damien explain somewhere why he doesn't offer a dither function? Damien once said he questions the usefullness of dither at 24 bit since the noise floor of the DAC limits such precision anyway (page 32 in this thread). But a statement like that also questions the usefullness of higher bit DAC in general. 1 hour ago, Jud said: From my reading, the most common opinion I have run across is that when converting 32-bit to 24-bit, dither is advised unless converting from 32-bit float. I should mention I haven't run across this issue in my own listening. My DAC (like most these days) uses 32 bits internally, and I send it DSD anyway. Yep. Not an issue with 32 bit DACs ... and of course not with DSD since by design DSD files already contain the required (shaped) noise. ____________________________________________________ Mac Mini, HQPlayer | iFi Zenstream | Intona 7055-B | Singxer SDA-6 pro | Vincent SV237 | Buchardt S400 | SPL Phonitor One | Beyer DT1990pro Desktop: Audirvana Origin | Intona 7054 | SMSL M500MKII | NAD C 316BEE | Aperion Novus B5 Bookshelf | Lehmann Rhinelander | Beyer DT700proX Link to comment
Jud Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, copy_of_a said: But a statement like that also questions the usefullness of higher bit DAC in general. Well, I think there are bits, and there are bits. 🙂 For a DAC's internal math, there may be reasons for a larger number of bits. (Some studio equipment does internal processing at 80 bits or above.) But with regard to the number of bits sent out of the internal processing to be converted to analog audio, anything more than 24 bits (maybe anything more than 20 or 21) will be buried in the thermal noise of the electronics. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post copy_of_a Posted December 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jud said: Well, I think there are bits, and there are bits. 🙂 For a DAC's internal math, there may be reasons for a larger number of bits. (Some studio equipment does internal processing at 80 bits or above.) But with regard to the number of bits sent out of the internal processing to be converted to analog audio, anything more than 24 bits (maybe anything more than 20 or 21) will be buried in the thermal noise of the electronics. Agreed, sure! For playback anything above 20 bit is overkill. We can discuss the usefullness of dither at 24bit all day long - but whatever some people think they hear or not: dither is the only correct way to create a technically clean, healthy and predictable 24 bit file out of a higer bit depth file. Theory says you should always dither word length reduction. Period. Think about it this way: Truncation distortion is always much louder than dither noise. Truncation noise may not do harm to your audio most of the time but it may do harm now and then. While dither noise is always clean (and inaudible with 24 bit) and always safe. Too, it's not only about the noise level down at the noise floor of 24bit. The smoothing dither provides also may lead to an overall more natural, less harsh sound. Anyway: if you can't hear truncation distortion at those low levels you certainly won't be able to hear dither noise - and discarding this basic foundation of digital audio is simply inaccurate or lazy design. buonassi and TwinPeak 1 1 ____________________________________________________ Mac Mini, HQPlayer | iFi Zenstream | Intona 7055-B | Singxer SDA-6 pro | Vincent SV237 | Buchardt S400 | SPL Phonitor One | Beyer DT1990pro Desktop: Audirvana Origin | Intona 7054 | SMSL M500MKII | NAD C 316BEE | Aperion Novus B5 Bookshelf | Lehmann Rhinelander | Beyer DT700proX Link to comment
MemoryPlayer Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 1:59 PM, Dandaman said: I just wanted to say that I am very pleased with 3.5. Once I tweaked the audio settings to 99.5/30000/99/67 and set upsampling to DSD256 using B(6th order) I had sound every bit as good and actually superior to the older version. About the only quibble I have is that many times when I do a search & make a selection, the "<" back button does not take me back to the results of the search. But I'm overall quite happy with 3.5.28 . For me best result is 99.5/30000/99/100 and set upsampling to DSD256 using C! Da Horsey 1 Link to comment
Dandaman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 hours ago, MemoryPlayer said: For me best result is 99.5/30000/99/100 and set upsampling to DSD256 using C! I tried your settings & some in between my 67 & your 100 on phase (plus modulator at C) & after 2-3 hours ended up right back where I was. I guess my mileage varies. 🙂 MemoryPlayer 1 Link to comment
MemoryPlayer Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Dandaman said: I tried your settings & some in between my 67 & your 100 on phase (plus modulator at C) & after 2-3 hours ended up right back where I was. I guess my mileage varies. 🙂 I will try my settings with B (6th order) and let you know! Btw, the sound quality of this DSD128 album is unbelievable: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/products/duke-ellington-indigos Link to comment
RunHomeSlow Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 Anyone here applied the macOS update 10.15.2 with Direct Mode ON in 10.15.1 ? My .ktext of El Capitan is still there after the update, first time Apple didn't replace it If You Got Ears, You Gotta Listen – Captain Beefheart MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin > Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series > Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13 Link to comment
jimdukey Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Maybe they put it back! Or not... Link to comment
RunHomeSlow Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 no, the date of the .ktext is still 2017 in my extensions of system If You Got Ears, You Gotta Listen – Captain Beefheart MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin > Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series > Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13 Link to comment
audiocanyon Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 That is GREAT news. Hopefully it's not a fluke... 2012 Mac Mini, Mac Sierra OS, Audirvana 3.x, WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 USB Interconnect, Benchmark DAC2 L, Wireworld Equinox 7 Balanced XLR Interconnect, Belles 350A Amp, DIY Speaker Cables (18 strands of 22awg wire in circular array), DIY Carver Ribbon Speakers & Dayton Woofers Link to comment
Anrad Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Hello All, Please advice regarding DSD files on Mac OS + Audirvana 3.5. My DAC is M2Tech Young Mk3 support DSD256 and PCM384 kHz, 32 bit(USB). Using DoP can play DSD128 if playing native DSD256. Is solution with Direct Mode hack to play raw DSD256? МBP - M2Tech Young MkIII & Teddy Pardo - Unison Research Unico Primo - Tannoy Revolution XT8F Link to comment
RunHomeSlow Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 Direct mode as nothing to do with that i think. Did you choose un setup DSD over PCM 1.1 instead of 1.0 ? If You Got Ears, You Gotta Listen – Captain Beefheart MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin > Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series > Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13 Link to comment
Anrad Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said: Direct mode as nothing to do with that i think. Did you choose un setup DSD over PCM 1.1 instead of 1.0 ? I'm not home right now (next ten days). The question is theoretical, to know if I will go into the installation process of direct mode. In any case I will try more options when I have the opportunity. Thanks, МBP - M2Tech Young MkIII & Teddy Pardo - Unison Research Unico Primo - Tannoy Revolution XT8F Link to comment
RunHomeSlow Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 1.1 enable DSD256, direct mode hack, still works with the latest OS and not difficult to install. If You Got Ears, You Gotta Listen – Captain Beefheart MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin > Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series > Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13 Link to comment
Anrad Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 36 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said: 1.1 enable DSD256, direct mode hack, still works with the latest OS and not difficult to install. Thanks, I will try МBP - M2Tech Young MkIII & Teddy Pardo - Unison Research Unico Primo - Tannoy Revolution XT8F Link to comment
Jud Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 7 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said: Direct mode as nothing to do with that i think. Did you choose un setup DSD over PCM 1.1 instead of 1.0 ? Direct Mode would ordinarily have nothing to do with it. But does the M2Tech Young use its own driver? Since Direct Mode is a driver, it might have an effect in that case. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Anrad Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jud said: Direct Mode would ordinarily have nothing to do with it. But does the M2Tech Young use its own driver? Since Direct Mode is a driver, it might have an effect in that case. Yes, M2Tech have driver for windows and play DSD256 files. МBP - M2Tech Young MkIII & Teddy Pardo - Unison Research Unico Primo - Tannoy Revolution XT8F Link to comment
Jud Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 48 minutes ago, Anrad said: Yes, M2Tech have driver for windows and play DSD256 files. That's Windows. Direct Mode is MacOS. So @RunHomeSlow is correct, Direct Mode has nothing to do with it. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Anrad Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 16 hours ago, Jud said: That's Windows. Direct Mode is MacOS. So @RunHomeSlow is correct, Direct Mode has nothing to do with it. Hello Jud, I'm not so familiar with MacOS, and asked for play DSD25 on MacOS, not to be 'downgraded' by DoP as DSD128. Windows use ASIO drivers to play DSD files. On 12/15/2019 at 4:31 PM, RunHomeSlow said: 1.1 enable DSD256, direct mode hack, still works with the latest OS and not difficult to install. Means, if use DoP 1.1, with or w/out direct mode, can play DSD256 but as DSD128, because my DAC can play PCM freq. up to 384 kHz.* *: 'DoP open Standard' v1.1, contributed also by Damien. Sorry for the confusion, МBP - M2Tech Young MkIII & Teddy Pardo - Unison Research Unico Primo - Tannoy Revolution XT8F Link to comment
Jud Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Anrad said: Hello Jud, I'm not so familiar with MacOS, and asked for play DSD25 on MacOS, not to be 'downgraded' by DoP as DSD128. Windows use ASIO drivers to play DSD files. Means, if use DoP 1.1, with or w/out direct mode, can play DSD256 but as DSD128, because my DAC can play PCM freq. up to 384 kHz.* *: 'DoP open Standard' v1.1, contributed also by Damien. Sorry for the confusion, I'm thinking MacOS always uses DoP rather than "native" DSD, unless there is a specific MacOS driver for that particular DAC allowing native DSD. So in order to play DSD256 using the ordinary MacOS driver, you would need a DAC that allows 768kHz input. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
jimdukey Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 RME ADI-2 Dac Will do DSD 256 on Mac, because of its very high PCM rate. Link to comment
jimdukey Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 ExaSound does DSD 256 on Mac with its own ASIO Drivers. Awfully pricey, tho. Link to comment
RunHomeSlow Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Direct Mode is from Damien. DSD over PCM 1.0 or 1.1 is not from Damien, i'm pretty sure. DSD over PCM 1.1 is the same thing as 1.0 but the update allows playing DSD256 instead of stopping at DSD128 then with v1.0. You need a DAC that can play 256 to use this thing, mine stop at DSD128, but i can play DSD256 files, but Audirvana drop them to PCM 384, why not to DSD128, i don't know If You Got Ears, You Gotta Listen – Captain Beefheart MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin > Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series > Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13 Link to comment
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