Audirvana Plus 3.5

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

 

there are but...

 

I've done so. It's free, works nicely.

[mkrzych]

On 11/30/2019 at 12:08 PM, damien78 said:

 

There is unfortunately a bug in El Capitan that causes this crash. It is triggered when setting text for VoiceOver (the accessibility feature used by people with sight disabilities).

I’ve found a workaround for getting Audirvana and VoiceOver work nicely with old El Capitan.

You can then update to 3.5.28 I’ve just released.

 

Hello Damien, 

I have a question if sound core engine for A+ 3.5 is significantly different than on A+ 3.2 or it's more about UI and other thing around? Asking that, because to be honest I like the 3.2 UI way better than 3.5 which kinda...well, not for me - I can leave with that UI, but honestly too much things I don't like beside the weird looks and behavior.

 

Second thing is I heard that is no more direct mode in El Capitan, but when I am using 3.5 indeed, INT indicator is off, while using 3.2 it is ON, why? I have both versions and I am trying to compare both by ear, but those information would help me. Also there is a problem, while using both of them, now 3.5 asking me about license, could I leave with two with the same license or what?

 

Many thanks for your hard work and A+,

Krzysztof Maj

[Jud]

5 hours ago, mkrzych said:

 

Hello Damien, 

I have a question if sound core engine for A+ 3.5 is significantly different than on A+ 3.2 or it's more about UI and other thing around? Asking that, because to be honest I like the 3.2 UI way better than 3.5 which kinda...well, not for me - I can leave with that UI, but honestly too much things I don't like beside the weird looks and behavior.

 

Second thing is I heard that is no more direct mode in El Capitan, but when I am using 3.5 indeed, INT indicator is off, while using 3.2 it is ON, why? I have both versions and I am trying to compare both by ear, but those information would help me. Also there is a problem, while using both of them, now 3.5 asking me about license, could I leave with two with the same license or what?

 

Many thanks for your hard work and A+,

Krzysztof Maj

 

Hi Krzysztof - I believe INT being lit in 3.2 is a UI bug.

[mkrzych]

22 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Hi Krzysztof - I believe INT being lit in 3.2 is a UI bug.

 

Possible, anyway gives me some fake assurance of INT on El Capitan ;-) For the rest of my questions, really struggling since I like 3.2 UI way better, just wanted to know if any significant changes or better improvements to the sound core of the software.

[audiocanyon]

I must have missed a few comments and was surprised to hear Direct Mode is no longer working with El Capitan - did I hear that correctly?  I'm using the Sierra OS and the Integer Mode is still indicated as "On".  Does Direct and Integer modes still work with Sierra with the IOAudioFamily-ElCapitan.kext file installed?

[RunHomeSlow]

4 minutes ago, audiocanyon said:

I must have missed a few comments and was surprised to hear Direct Mode is no longer working with El Capitan - did I hear that correctly?  I'm using the Sierra OS and the Integer Mode is still indicated as "On".  Does Direct and Integer modes still work with Sierra with the IOAudioFamily-ElCapitan.kext file installed?

 

Yes it is still working with El Capitan... last OS working. Integer Mode should work as always on every OS. Direct Mode works on all OS after El Capitan with the .ktext changed

[Jud]

4 hours ago, mkrzych said:

 

Possible, anyway gives me some fake assurance of INT on El Capitan ;-)

 

Sorry to mislead you - I am running Catalina on my 2009 MacBook Pro and using Audirvana with UPnP/DLNA (where integer mode does not apply), so I lost track of the last OS that allowed integer mode without the kext substitution.

[MemoryPlayer]

12 hours ago, mkrzych said:

Does 3.2 version use SoX?

SoX sounds way better than Izotope!

 

Possible, anyway gives me some fake assurance of INT on El Capitan ;-) For the rest of my questions, really struggling since I like 3.2 UI way better, just wanted to know if any significant changes or better improvements to the sound core of the software.

 

[brianlg]

One of the things I loved about Roon (no longer subscribed) was that you could build a collection of music combining local albums as well as albums from Tidal/Qobuz. For example, my "Best Albums of 2019" list could contain albums from Tidal as well as local files that aren't on Tidal. I cannot find a way to do this with Audirvana as making a playlist I cannot combine local and Tidal. Will this be a feature in the future? Would anyone else want this? Doesn't need to be a "playlist", but some way to tag collections. 

[mazuly]

43 minutes ago, brianlg said:

One of the things I loved about Roon (no longer subscribed) was that you could build a collection of music combining local albums as well as albums from Tidal/Qobuz. For example, my "Best Albums of 2019" list could contain albums from Tidal as well as local files that aren't on Tidal. I cannot find a way to do this with Audirvana as making a playlist I cannot combine local and Tidal. Will this be a feature in the future? Would anyone else want this? Doesn't need to be a "playlist", but some way to tag collections. 

+1

[greyscale]

I posted this question on the A+ forum, And am posting this question here as well. Is it possible to add internet radio or,even Tunein to A+?.

[mazuly]

2 hours ago, greyscale said:

I posted this question on the A+ forum, And am posting this question here as well. Is it possible to add internet radio or,even Tunein to A+?.

+1

[mevdinc]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:05 PM, brianlg said:

One of the things I loved about Roon (no longer subscribed) was that you could build a collection of music combining local albums as well as albums from Tidal/Qobuz. For example, my "Best Albums of 2019" list could contain albums from Tidal as well as local files that aren't on Tidal. I cannot find a way to do this with Audirvana as making a playlist I cannot combine local and Tidal. Will this be a feature in the future? Would anyone else want this? Doesn't need to be a "playlist", but some way to tag collections. 

+1
 

[jos]

16 hours ago, greyscale said:

I posted this question on the A+ forum, And am posting this question here as well. Is it possible to add internet radio or,even Tunein to A+?.

+1

[S.Magus]

On 12/3/2019 at 6:54 AM, mkrzych said:

 

Hello Damien, 

I have a question if sound core engine for A+ 3.5 is significantly different than on A+ 3.2 or it's more about UI and other thing around? Asking that, because to be honest I like the 3.2 UI way better than 3.5 which kinda...well, not for me - I can leave with that UI, but honestly too much things I don't like beside the weird looks and behavior.

 

Second thing is I heard that is no more direct mode in El Capitan, but when I am using 3.5 indeed, INT indicator is off, while using 3.2 it is ON, why? I have both versions and I am trying to compare both by ear, but those information would help me. Also there is a problem, while using both of them, now 3.5 asking me about license, could I leave with two with the same license or what?

 

Many thanks for your hard work and A+,

Krzysztof Maj

I've done repeated comparisons between 3.2.8 and 3.5.x when I used each for for a couple of days before switching back. I did this twice, on El Capitan, which I'm still on. I really wanted to like the newer version but I couldn't. I'm talking SQ. I was surprised to find great majority of users preferring 3.5 when to my ears it lacked some essential qualities that the older version possesed (3.5 had thinner bass and patchy, uneven, midrange. It also had more 'processed' sound overall). Now that you're saying that 3.5 might not be utilizing direct mode, even in El Capitan (if that is what you were saying), I'm not surprised. I also agree that the newer version is too buggy compared to the old one, at least on El Capitan, and especially when the new Remote is used. The only improvement i find in the new remote is adding group to queue. 3.2.8 is the pinnacle of A+ development, imo. Not overly pretty, but the SQ is superb and it works like a charm. I must be extra careful not to update the old remote in App Store by accident. Once that's done there's no going back. 

[mkrzych]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:40 PM, S.Magus said:

I've done repeated comparisons between 3.2.8 and 3.5.x when I used each for for a couple of days before switching back. I did this twice, on El Capitan, which I'm still on. I really wanted to like the newer version but I couldn't. I'm talking SQ. I was surprised to find great majority of users preferring 3.5 when to my ears it lacked some essential qualities that the older version possesed (3.5 had thinner bass and patchy, uneven, midrange. It also had more 'processed' sound overall). Now that you're saying that 3.5 might not be utilizing direct mode, even in El Capitan (if that is what you were saying), I'm not surprised. I also agree that the newer version is too buggy compared to the old one, at least on El Capitan, and especially when the new Remote is used. The only improvement i find in the new remote is adding group to queue. 3.2.8 is the pinnacle of A+ development, imo. Not overly pretty, but the SQ is superb and it works like a charm. I must be extra careful not to update the old remote in App Store by accident. Once that's done there's no going back. 

 

I agree with you totally. When after using 3.5 for quite some time, I switched back to 3.2 it was like night and day. Better clarity and less "heavy" sound on 3.2, not even saying about that ugly 3.5 GUI. As you said I am trying to be convinced to 3.5, but it's not an easy thing unfortunately.

 

I think would be very good if @damien78 could chime in and say few words about it, what been planned to improve 3.5 etc. On El Capitan what I see using 3.2 is the INT and SYSopt are both ON, while on 3.5 - INT mode is OFF. INT means integer mode, but not direct mode, so is direct mode supported on El Capitan by default?

 

Anyway, so far in my humble opinion 3.2 is the essence of A+ dev as you said, period.

 

 

[Nico]

Same here, I am stuck with 3.2 particularly because of the new GUI which makes the handling of tracks cumbersome. My hope shrinks that this will change back sometime .... :-(

[damien78]

This is quite surprising as it goes against the consensus on 3.5 SQ.

I have even sound engineers that told me how there were astonished with the SQ achieved with 3.5, telling me there are now able to tell the model of microphone used when hearing a recording.

Maybe there was some specific fit between 3.2 and your equipment? Have you tried tweaking the SoX parameters?

 

Regarding the UI, @S.Magus, could you elaborate on "the newer version is too buggy compared to the old one"?

[mkrzych]

46 minutes ago, damien78 said:

This is quite surprising as it goes against the consensus on 3.5 SQ.

I have even sound engineers that told me how there were astonished with the SQ achieved with 3.5, telling me there are now able to tell the model of microphone used when hearing a recording.

Maybe there was some specific fit between 3.2 and your equipment? Have you tried tweaking the SoX parameters?

 

Regarding the UI, @S.Magus, could you elaborate on "the newer version is too buggy compared to the old one"?

 

Thanks for chiming in. Well, maybe regarding the matching, but from you perspective @damien78 as the developer of A+, is the sound engine core functions significantly updated for better in 3.5 comparing to 3.2? Do we still have direct mode in El Capitan, INT is ON on 3.2, but not on 3.5.

 

I am not using any upsampling, so SoX I guess is not used in that case right?

 

For the UI, what this for instance?

 

[damien78]

There have been quite some added optimisations to the sound engine in 3.5

Integer, Direct modes are still present, though this last one requires the kext hack for recent macOS versions.

If you are not upsampling, SoX is not used.

Regarding INT display, you can check using the Debug Info while playing. The playing stream format is written there. If it says Integer non-mixable, then it is Integer Mode.

Note that Integer Mode switch is not applicable for UPnP/DLNA playback, as it is an optimisation of macOS audio. BTW, the audio data sent to a network player is always in integer streams format.

 

Regarding the UI issue, this is a bug/limitation of El Capitan where in some views, the differentiated scroll is not handled correctly. This is something Apple has fixed in Sierra. I've tried to implement as much workaround as possible for this, but it'll be too much work to redevelop a feature of the OS that is now working correctly in all the last 4 macOS released.

[mkrzych]

11 minutes ago, damien78 said:

There have been quite some added optimisations to the sound engine in 3.5

Integer, Direct modes are still present, though this last one requires the kext hack for recent macOS versions.

If you are not upsampling, SoX is not used.

Regarding INT display, you can check using the Debug Info while playing. The playing stream format is written there. If it says Integer non-mixable, then it is Integer Mode.

Note that Integer Mode switch is not applicable for UPnP/DLNA playback, as it is an optimisation of macOS audio. BTW, the audio data sent to a network player is always in integer streams format.

 

Regarding the UI issue, this is a bug/limitation of El Capitan where in some views, the differentiated scroll is not handled correctly. This is something Apple has fixed in Sierra. I've tried to implement as much workaround as possible for this, but it'll be too much work to redevelop a feature of the OS that is now working correctly in all the last 4 macOS released.

 

Thanks @damien78 So in summary, what we have in El Capitan: INT, Direct or both? Those optimizations in 3.5 are mainly for SoX or overall for sound core inside A+ besides the fact if upsampling is used or not?

[damien78]

Both. And the optimisations are in the low level playback engine, so for all cases

[mkrzych]

2 minutes ago, damien78 said:

Both. And the optimisations are in the low level playback engine, so for all cases

 

So, @damien78 if both in El Capitan, why in 3.5 INT is OFF, while in 3.2 I have it ON?

[damien78]

Can you check the Debug Info?

[mkrzych]

Just now, damien78 said:

Can you check the Debug Info?

 

Well, I have just realized, that maybe the indicator is not green/light up only, but the mode is actually ON, will double check. So Direct Mode is also present by default in El Capitan right? How to check it?