APFS... Apple's Piece of Friggin' Shite?

[semente]

I bought a used iMac.

It came with 10.14 but Graphisoft recommends 10.13.

 

Inserted 10.13 SD card, deleted the HDD contents.

After installing 10.13, installed all software and then started updating the OS.

Wouldn't update beyond 10.3.2.

Run Disk Utility and found errors.

 

Inserted 10.13 SD card again, re-deleted HDD contents but had no option to format as HFS, reinstalled 10.13, then the 10.3.16 combo update.

Run Disk Utility and found errors.

 

Googled "APFS / Disk Utility errors".

 

Found and tried a few work-arounds. None of them worked.

 

Scratched my head.

 

Inserted 10.11 USB, formated HDD as HFS.

 

Inserted 10.13 SD card for the 3rd time, installed 10.13, updated to 10.13.6.

Run Disk Utility and found no errors.

 

Lost about 8 hours and 35.7g of hair...

 

Post-Jobs Apple is a mess.

[AudioDoctor]

There is a way to reformat a previously APFS formatted drive, let me find it and get back to you.

 

https://blog.macsales.com/46896-how-to-revert-a-drive-from-apfs-back-to-hfs

 

Additionally, not sure when this started but I just learned when I recently upgraded to Mojave that in Disk Utility you have to go to View > Select All > and then select the drive itself not the sub-directories. Meaning, select the drive, OWC Mercury Electra in this case, not the formatted container, in my case named Boot Lt, and reformat that.

 

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

Sorry, its View > Show all Devices, not Select All.

 

 

[kirkmc]

21 hours ago, semente said:

I bought a used iMac.

It came with 10.14 but Graphisoft recommends 10.13.

 

Let me see if I understand this. Some company called "Graphisoft" recommends an older than current operating system, but Apple is shite? 

21 hours ago, semente said:

Inserted 10.13 SD card

 

What is the "10.13 SD card?" Where did you get this from? Booting from an SD card is certainly not recommended with macOS. If you want to install an older operating system, you'll need to have an OS on an external drive, boot to it by holding the Option key at startup, erase the startup volume on the Mac, then install the OS. 

 

I have an SSD in an enclosure which I use to back up my iMac. I just plugged it in, and Disk Utility offers me the option of erasing it as macOS Extended (Journaled) which is what you want. There's no way that you don't have that option unless there's something wrong with the drive in the Mac. And given the errors you're seeing, I suspect there is a hardware issue with the drive. 

[kirkmc]

17 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Additionally, not sure when this started but I just learned when I recently upgraded to Mojave that in Disk Utility you have to go to View > Select All > and then select the drive itself not the sub-directories. Meaning, select the drive, OWC Mercury Electra in this case, not the formatted container, in my case named Boot Lt, and reformat that.

 

 

You've always had to select a drive to format; you can erase a volume, but you can't format a volume. It's true that the button says Erase, but for volumes it just erases, and for drives it formats. 

[semente]

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

Let me see if I understand this. Some company called "Graphisoft" recommends an older than current operating system, but Apple is shite?

 

Yes!

 

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

What is the "10.13 SD card?" Where did you get this from? Booting from an SD card is certainly not recommended with macOS. If you want to install an older operating system, you'll need to have an OS on an external drive, boot to it by holding the Option key at startup, erase the startup volume on the Mac, then install the OS.

 

10.13 installer on an SD card. I've done this a few times since I bought my first Macintosh PPC back in '95...

 

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

If you want to install an older operating system, you'll need to have an OS on an external drive, boot to it by holding the Option key at startup, erase the startup volume on the Mac, then install the OS.

 

Did that. Found errors.

 

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

I have an SSD in an enclosure which I use to back up my iMac.

 

Currently I have a memory stick with the 10.9 installer and an SD card with the 10.13 installer. I can make any installer disk from 10.9 to 10.14.

 

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

just plugged it in, and Disk Utility offers me the option of erasing it as macOS Extended (Journaled) which is what you want. There's no way that you don't have that option unless there's something wrong with the drive in the Mac. And given the errors you're seeing, I suspect there is a hardware issue with the drive.

 

I don't think that there are any issues with the drive but I will not dismiss user error...

 

Still, booting from the 10.13 installer only showed APFS as formatting option whilst booting from the 10.9 installer showed both HFS and APFS.

[kirkmc]

How do you install from an SD card? The macOS installer cannot boot itself. Do you mean that you launch the installer when booted from the computer, by selecting it on the SD card? If so, you don't have any options to erase the drive at that time. All that happens is that macOS copies the installer to the drive to be able to install the OS. 

 

What you need to do is boot off an external drive with a full operating system and installer on it. Before installing, you run Disk Utility and reformat the drive. 

 

As for Disk Utility, it has _never_, as far as I remember, said "HFS" or "HFS+." It says macOS Extended, etc. 

[semente]

57 minutes ago, kirkmc said:

How do you install from an SD card? The macOS installer cannot boot itself. Do you mean that you launch the installer when booted from the computer, by selecting it on the SD card? If so, you don't have any options to erase the drive at that time. All that happens is that macOS copies the installer to the drive to be able to install the OS. 

 

What you need to do is boot off an external drive with a full operating system and installer on it. Before installing, you run Disk Utility and reformat the drive. 

 

As for Disk Utility, it has _never_, as far as I remember, said "HFS" or "HFS+." It says macOS Extended, etc. 

 

Correct about Mac OS Extended, but HFS is shorter and I'm feeling lazy.

 

You can boot from an installer pen drive or from an SD card and then run the installer.

[semente]

macOS High Sierra: Why you can't format an internal SSD with HFS+ format

But you can downgrade and reformat for an older version of macOS.

 

 

https://www.macworld.com/article/3269224/macos-high-sierra-why-you-cant-format-an-internal-ssd-with-hfs-format.html

 

[GregWormald]

14 hours ago, semente said:

<snips>Still, booting from the 10.13 installer only showed APFS as formatting option whilst booting from the 10.9 installer showed both HFS and APFS.

 

So install 10.9 and then update to 10.13. Simple.

[wgscott]

With a few minor changes, you can make a MacOS installer USB drive or SD card.  Works as well as any other external drive, just slower.

 

cf:  http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/27/create-macos-high-sierra-bootable-installer-usb/

 

 

 

I think 32-bit software won't run on latest macOS.  I had to revert a new laptop for my wife for similar reasons, although I am pretty sure I was able to do it from the above USB drive without drama.  I probably kept the APFS.

 

(This is the first time since 2001 I haven't been running the latest available OS X/MacOS.)

[Ralf11]

On 3/2/2019 at 5:06 AM, semente said:

 

Post-Jobs Apple is a mess.

 

 

Yes, Apple really IS shite.

 

https://www.neowin.net/news/google-reveals-high-severity-flaw-in-macos-kernel/

 

 

"Does flax matter?"

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, wgscott said:

With a few minor changes, you can make a MacOS installer USB drive or SD card.  Works as well as any other external drive, just slower.

 

cf:  http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/27/create-macos-high-sierra-bootable-installer-usb/

 

 

 

Carbon Copy Cloner is a well spent $40, as it remedies so many ills so easily. You can of course, do everything it does just using command lines, but I use it for just about everything, such as backing up Raid Arrays to a Second Raid Array, cloning boot disks that develop errors, etc. 

 

https://bombich.com

 

As for Apple being shiite- well, it beats Microsoft. My Surface Laptop vs My MacBook Pro?  No contest, except that I do love the touch screen on the Surface.

 

-Paul 

 

[semente]

5 hours ago, GregWormald said:

 

So install 10.9 and then update to 10.13. Simple.

 

It took me a while to get there.

 

Eventually I ended up formating with the 10.9 installer and then used the 10.13 installer.

[kirkmc]

4 hours ago, wgscott said:

I think 32-bit software won't run on latest macOS.  I had to revert a new laptop for my wife for similar reasons, although I am pretty sure I was able to do it from the above USB drive without drama.  I probably kept the APFS.

 

 

32-bit software runs on Mojave, but it won't run on the next version of macOS. 

[semente]

4 hours ago, wgscott said:

With a few minor changes, you can make a MacOS installer USB drive or SD card.  Works as well as any other external drive, just slower.

 

cf:  http://osxdaily.com/2017/09/27/create-macos-high-sierra-bootable-installer-usb/

 

 

 

I think 32-bit software won't run on latest macOS.  I had to revert a new laptop for my wife for similar reasons, although I am pretty sure I was able to do it from the above USB drive without drama.  I probably kept the APFS.

 

(This is the first time since 2001 I haven't been running the latest available OS X/MacOS.)

 

 

The iMac I bought came with 10.14. I was able to perform a clean install of 10.13 but disk utility kept on discovering problems.

Hence my change from APFS to HFS+. But a clean install of 10.13 with HFS+ formatting wasn't possible...

 

I held on to Mac OS 9 until 10.2 was out and even then I kept using the OS 9 emulator.

After 10.3 I have been skipping every even-numbered Mac OS version. 10.9 was a good stable platform.

 

I think that Apple's turn towards the consumer market and tightening of ecosystem dependability is adding unnecessary clutter to the OS...

I wish they would split, make an computer-iOS for the consumers and a proper MacOS for the pros.

[kirkmc]

21 minutes ago, semente said:

I wish they would split, make an computer-iOS for the consumers and a proper MacOS for the pros.

 

What do you consider "a proper macOS for the pros?" 

[semente]

2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

 

What do you consider "a proper macOS for the pros?" 

 

A bare-bones version with no gimmicks?

[kirkmc]

Not sure what you mean, but whatevs. 

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

A bare-bones version with no gimmicks?

 

 

Mmmm- ever just opened a terminal window?  Pretty much standard Unix there. 

 

[semente]

3 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

 

Mmmm- ever just opened a terminal window?  Pretty much standard Unix there. 

 

I don't want a terminal window. I need a windows interface, but want a computer GUI not a phone/tablet GUI.

[Paul R]

Why? 

 

Much as I am a Mac guy, the touch screen on my Surface laptop is flat out wonderful.  I find myself trying to swipe the screen on my MacBook Pro, even with the very useful touch bar. 

 

Are you sure you are not just irritated at change? Like in the bad old days of “real men don’t do windows and mice?” 😁

 

[wgscott]

The day MacOS/OS X stops being a viable unix machine will be the day I abandon the platform.

 

Prior to 2001, I had a Mac in my office that served as a glorified type-writer, and an SGI (with a 150 MHz MIPS processor!) for a computer.

 

OS X revolutionized everything.

 

Making iOS the default operating system would be a Great Leap Backwards.  My iMac would become a nearly useless iPad on a stick.

[wgscott]

7 hours ago, semente said:

I wish they would split, make an computer-iOS for the consumers and a proper MacOS for the pros.

 

There is a Basic Finder mode for little children and incompetents who only need to read email and post to Fakebook.

[semente]

2 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

There is a Basic Finder mode for little children and incompetents who only need to read email and post to Fakebook.

 

Great. Are you enjoying it?