Jud Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Not sure if someone has already reported the following rumors: https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/21/apple-custom-arm-based-chips-2020/ tmtomh 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
esldude Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I've been reading such rumors for a while now. My first question would be how will this effect Intel based Macs. Will they work with the new all for one scheme? Will they have to run things as VMs in the Mac OS for that to happen? And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I've been waiting for the new Mac Pro for a while, but if it comes out as an x86 machine I'm not sure if I'll bite. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
botrytis Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I've been waiting for the new Mac Pro for a while, but if it comes out as an x86 machine I'm not sure if I'll bite. Mac Pro's have been x86 for a while - that is what all Intel chips are. I think Apple wants to have one OS over everything. Since OS X is a real mix of Next OS, Free BSD, and custom code it takes a lot of work. Having one OS with one type of processor, will make their control and development easier. Not sure how powerful a processor like the ARMs can get. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, botrytis said: Mac Pro's have been x86 for a while - that is what all Intel chips are. Correct. I may not bite because Apple is moving to Arm and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a machine that will be phased out quickly. wgscott 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
mansr Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, esldude said: I've been reading such rumors for a while now. My first question would be how will this effect Intel based Macs. Will they work with the new all for one scheme? Will they have to run things as VMs in the Mac OS for that to happen? Apple have switched CPU architecture in the Mac before: from 68k to PPC, then to x86. On both occasions, they relied on software emulation to smooth the transition. That was helped by the new CPU family being significantly faster than the outgoing one, so the speed penalty wasn't notable when compared to the old hardware. Switching from x86 to ARM, this advantage will not be available. On the other hand, emulation technology has improved, drawing on JIT compilation as used by Java and other modern languages. Furthermore, software upgrade cycles are much shorter than they used to be, so most applications should get a native build fairly quickly. Regarding existing x86 based Mac hardware, if history is any indication, they would continue to receive OS updates for a few years. Third-party software would also likely be available for both CPU types during this time. If they are determined to make the switch, I have no doubt Apple would be able to pull it off. Worst case, they'd just bludgeon the users into submission. 20 minutes ago, botrytis said: Not sure how powerful a processor like the ARMs can get. That's entirely up to the microarchitecture designer. There is nothing inherently limiting in the instruction set. If anything, it should be easier to make fast ARM than an x86. Thuaveta 1 Link to comment
Miska Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Let's see what appears... So far, fastest ARM I have where I can freely run something is 64-bit NXP's i.MX8M (quad-core) and it barely reaches lowest end of Intel quad-core Atom's. Extremely far from what bigger Intel/AMD CPUs can do. But otherwise it is quite nice piece of hardware in it's own class. As long as it's fast, I don't really care what architecture it is. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
mansr Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Miska said: Let's see what appears... So far, fastest ARM I have where I can freely run something is 64-bit NXP's i.MX8M (quad-core) and it barely reaches lowest end of Intel quad-core Atom's. Extremely far from what bigger Intel/AMD CPUs can do. But otherwise it is quite nice piece of hardware in it's own class. That's a mobile/embedded chip. Things like Cavium's ThunderX2 are in a different class. Apple has a strong CPU design team (formerly PA Semi) that surely can come up with something adequate. It doesn't need to compete with the top Intel/AMD offering for use in a laptop. Link to comment
Popular Post Miska Posted February 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, mansr said: That's a mobile/embedded chip. Things like Cavium's ThunderX2 are in a different class. Apple has a strong CPU design team (formerly PA Semi) that surely can come up with something adequate. It doesn't need to compete with the top Intel/AMD offering for use in a laptop. Not mobile, but embedded yes. I also have Nvidia Jetson TX2, but it is another tricky one, but also goes to embedded category (mostly marketed for machine vision on automobile). I can surely get some other boards if there are good recommendations that are at similar price/performance point as x86 and can run Linux! Not sure how the single-thread performance matches for non-parallelizable loads on those bigger chips. If it is just more cores and bus bandwidth it is not necessarily a winner... Now the absolute winner has been x86 running at core speeds to 5 GHz accompanied with Nvidia GPUs. Maximum single thread performance together with maximum parallel performance. Quote It doesn't need to compete with the top Intel/AMD offering for use in a laptop. Ahh, laptops, not very interesting. I'm more like after iMac Pro / Mac Pro. Workstation / server class performance rather than laptops. My aging 27" quad-core iMac with Nvidia GPU needs replacement... The new iMac Pro has a bit silly pricing compared to performance. esldude and The Computer Audiophile 2 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I hear that Apple just got a great deal on a boatload of Nvidia chips from TSC... Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Ralf11 said: I hear that Apple just got a great deal on a boatload of Nvidia chips from TSC... Did they fall out the back of the ship? No electron left behind. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 https://wccftech.com/tsmc-550-million-blunder-destroyed-thousands-of-nvidia-gpu-wafers/ Link to comment
Jud Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 7 hours ago, mansr said: It doesn't need to compete with the top Intel/AMD offering for use in a laptop If the general idea is to be able to develop one app across all products, I wonder whether Apple intends to stop at laptops. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
esldude Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Trying to be optimistic about this, I've felt for some time I rarely rarely need 'big iron'. The computing power of my current and previous phone is plenty for almost everything I'll do. What I'd want is to have a table with my nice monitor, keyboard and mouse. Be able to walk up, lay my phone down, have everything connect and cast to the monitor. They are ways to do this now of course. But someone needs to develop a very good standard everyone could agree upon and implement it. To the point USB 2.0 was truly nearly universal for a few years, I'd like to see such a standard be almost everywhere on almost every portable device. The devices are powerful enough just not accessible enough for some purposes. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
mansr Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Jud said: If the general idea is to be able to develop one app across all products, I wonder whether Apple intends to stop at laptops. It's my impression that the more powerful desktop machines have for some time been something of an after-thought for Apple, to the extent they've made any at all. Unless I'm mistaken, the latest Mac Pro is the 2013 "dustbin" model. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
Jud Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Haven't really looked at how it compares to the iMac Pro. There are rumors of a Mac Pro update in June. https://www.techradar.com/news/mac-pro-2018-release-date-news-and-rumors One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
jabbr Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=183440&curpostid=183486 Jud 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 at one time, "big iron" meant running a finite element stress model and for cars, only the biggest manfs. could afford that; later small manfs. (like Porsche) were able to do so in about 1980, a big Amdahl (faster than IBM big iron) was used to run the state of Washington - late one night, a graduate student ran a big (but poorly optimized) FORTRAN finite element model of heat exchange on it, crashing the system for the entire state the high end Macs are aimed at video editing where the studios have been using Windows or other non-Mac machines recently today, the bigly big iron is used at the National Labs for nuclear weapons research, for Global Climate finite element models, and in AI research Link to comment
mansr Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Ralf11 said: today, the bigly big iron is used at the National Labs They have some nice toys. I used to have an account on a machine at Argonne, until they decommissioned it. Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I’m still doing some work with Oak Ridge and was there last summer when they announced their new supercomputer, Summit. But 2 are already being built elsewhere that will be faster. https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
lmitche Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098230/microsoft-windows-on-arm-64-bit-app-support-arm64 Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
Jud Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 hour ago, lmitche said: https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/18098230/microsoft-windows-on-arm-64-bit-app-support-arm64 The funny thing is that the hassle of recompiling (be it ever so small) is why Apple is supposedly going to ARM across the line (or at least with laptops). One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 If that were to happen across the Apple lineup of computers it may be the end of Apple in the PC market place. wgscott 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post Mike Rubin Posted February 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 24, 2019 I worked at a semiconductor company for a number of years after twelve at Apple. I have been retired for four years, so I might be out of the loop, but my employer licensed ARM architecture not because it was as powerful as other architectures, but because it consumed less power. I could be way out of the loop, but it's hard for me to see Apple retaining leadership in any processor-intensive applications if it goes the ARM route for anything more powerful than phones or tablets. koupa and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 Living room: Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7 > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s Link to comment
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