Innuos Zenith Mk3 or OpticalRendu + separate server?

[diecaster]

 

[Superdad]

@diecaster  Just FYI:  OCD Hi-Fi Guy is Mike Powell of Verastarr cables (http://verastarr.com) and Mike Powell Audio (https://www.mikepowellaudio.com).  Quite a character. 

[Dutch]

I’m no Innuos fan but my oh my, this guy has so many of his stated facts wrong, just plain wrong. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

[k-man]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Just FYI:  OCD Hi-Fi Guy is Mike Powell of Verastarr

And he sells a $2299 listening chair (and some more with the optional extras $125 iPad holder, $125 large cup holder, $75 remote control pouch, $150 footrest extension).

 

Yes, he obviously is saving us 'audiophiles' from the shirts and tie wearing corporate guys 🙄

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, k-man said:

And he sells a $2299 listening chair...

 

Well in all fairness it does look like a comfortable chair. Decent furniture is not cheap these days. 

 

Yet on on the subject of price, two of his power cords cost more than the Innous server he is so critical of. So there is that...

[diecaster]

3 hours ago, Dutch said:

I’m no Innuos fan but my oh my, this guy has so many of his stated facts wrong, just plain wrong. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

 

I am not saying he is right. But, what did he say that was wrong. Talk about points of consequence only. That motherboard does indeed look like an off the shelf Super Micro motherboard. It says "Super" right on it. So it is not some custom designed motherboard. The linear power supply looks rather normal. So what did he get wrong?

[Dutch]

2 minutes ago, diecaster said:

But, what did he say that was wrong.

 

Too much to waste time and energy on.

[diecaster]

3 hours ago, k-man said:

And he sells a $2299 listening chair (and some more with the optional extras $125 iPad holder, $125 large cup holder, $75 remote control pouch, $150 footrest extension).

 

Yes, he obviously is saving us 'audiophiles' from the shirts and tie wearing corporate guys 🙄

 

My listening chair, a Stressless, cost more than that.....

[diecaster]

Just now, Dutch said:

 

Too much to waste time and energy on.

 

In other words, you can't write something that backs up your assertion. At least not on the major points. It is clear that he said a lot of things about unimportant details that were wrong.

[Dutch]

4 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

In other words, you can't write something that backs up your assertion. At least not on the major points. It is clear that he said a lot of things about unimportant details that were wrong.

 

No, I can, but I don’t want to, sorry.

[LTG2010]

8 hours ago, diecaster said:

n other words, you can't write something that backs up your assertion. At least not on the major points. It is clear that he said a lot of things about unimportant details that were wrong.

He can but it's not worth the effort. You can easily look up the product and find out what's different about the custom made motherboard and power supply design by Dr Sean Jacobs.

[your momo]

So much fun, was that tear down a tentative to win April fools contest ?

 

Just the inside picture is SE Mk2, so how can he deduct anything regarding Mk3 unit...

[bobfa]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:12 AM, McNulty said:

Hi guys, this is my first post after lurking the forum for a couple of weeks, hope you can help me a bit in my quest for a new streamer.

I was wondering if we have gotten off track here?

 

I "think" the question is around one box vs two box solutions.   (Or maybe three)

 

I cannot comment on stuff I have not heard.  Until very recently I have been using a Sonic Transporter i7 DSP and an UltaRendu as my two box solution.  I have been studying different network methodologies to connect the two.  I have a long run between the server and the endpoint, about 50ft cable run.  I have swapped between FMC and ethernet, and the FMC was a little bit better.  Putting the UltraRendu on an LPS-1.2 or JS-2 made a much bigger difference.  Putting an HDPLEX200 on the Sonic Transporter was also a bigger difference.  OK and do not freak out.  Sticking the TLS switch right next to the endpoint made a big difference.  (Noodle that one folks). This solution is really good and sort of Goldilocks in price.

 

Note; using the two devices above server and endpoint with the same OS and user interface for setup and management using a web browser gets a big high-five from me.  

 

Soon you could pretty simply move up the price / value chain with some of the new commercial gear headed towards us.  And Optical Signature Rendu sounds really interesting,  One box in the system that should help all kinds of noise vectors.  There are SOO many new servers out there I am not sure what to even talk about.  

 

What I "think" is more important is the software you want to use and what you want to "play" with.  I am playing with AudioLinux.  I am playing with BIOS settings.  I am learning what has changed in Linux OS in the last ten years.  There is some really neat stuff under the hood.  Do NOT follow me down this path unless you are full-on geeked out by hanging a keyboard/mouse/and display off of the D-to-D in your stereo. And you want to play with SSH and SFTP!  I am really happy with what AL has done for the audio on my system!  

 

I cannot tell Siri or Alexa to play music or turn the volume down!  I still cannot get Soundcloud or YouTube on the stereo.  I love Roon for other reasons.  I need Roon to do more.

 

When I watched the silly component breakdown video from above, I am just amazed at the lack of respect to his audience and to industry in general.    I dare him to have somebody work with a custom sheet metal vendor to provide you with quality cases. And hire the engineer to put the asymmetrical feet in the right place to help eliminate vibrations and not tip over.  Oh, and I hope that he can do custom software engineering to wrap it all up; but I digress.

 

So keep your eyes out for actual listening reviews of the new stuff headed our way.  If you want to DIY there are some really fun threads here. Go watch the Darko.audio review of the Innous box and look at their software user interface.  You can also look at stuff like DCS!

 

I am off to drop an NVMe SSD into my server and install Euphony OS on it for dual boot audio playback Linux shootout!  Any bets?!?  Will the NVMe SSD change the QS of AL running off of the Optane stick??  

 

Bob

[kravi4ka]

A shootout between the Audiolinux and Euphony would be magnificent! Looking forward to what you would like to share.

 

And OpticalRendu could be grear as well... Just need to get my hands on one. I remember listening to the Innuos at the 2018 Munich and the difference between the SE and the Statement was so big that I suggested to the guy that should only sell the Statement

[Foggie]

Interesting server breakdown from Innuos

 

[Foggie]

I have been of the mindset that keeping the server/heavy processing be kept in another room and sending the output (via fiber) to a streamer (which is what I use). 

 

It is interesting that many of the users, actually everyone of them (in the Innuos case) has reported better to significant improvement with server direct to DAC v.s. server + streamer + DAC config.  That just seems counter intuitive, but has peeked my interest nonetheless and obviously its all subjective + system dependent. 

 

One "knock" I have with the Innuos is that it has a lot of functions I don't need/want and thus are paying for. 

 

This sonictransporter which has embedd HQP and sonicorbiter OS sounds like a great alternative

[bobfa]

31 minutes ago, Foggie said:

I have been of the mindset that keeping the server/heavy processing be kept in another room and sending the output (via fiber) to a streamer (which is what I use). 

 

It is interesting that many of the users, actually everyone of them (in the Innuos case) has reported better to significant improvement with server direct to DAC v.s. server + streamer + DAC config.  That just seems counter intuitive, but has peeked my interest nonetheless and obviously its all subjective + system dependent. 

 

One "knock" I have with the Innuos is that it has a lot of functions I don't need/want and thus are paying for. 

 

This sonictransporter which has embedd HQP and sonicorbiter OS sounds like a great alternative

I think we are finding that the assumption about low power in the endpoint is not the only answer.  I have an i7 NUC running either AudioLinux or Euphony and it outperforms the low power endpoint I was using.

 

Thanks for the podcast above, I am listening to it now.  

 

Lets keep the subject on the Innous though.  Not other products.

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, Foggie said:

I have been of the mindset that keeping the server/heavy processing be kept in another room and sending the output (via fiber) to a streamer (which is what I use). 

 

It is interesting that many of the users, actually everyone of them (in the Innuos case) has reported better to significant improvement with server direct to DAC v.s. server + streamer + DAC config.  That just seems counter intuitive, but has peeked my interest nonetheless and obviously its all subjective + system dependent. 

 

One "knock" I have with the Innuos is that it has a lot of functions I don't need/want and thus are paying for. 

 

This sonictransporter which has embedd HQP and sonicorbiter OS sounds like a great alternative

 

Hi Foggie,

 

I went directly from an Audiostore Prestige 2 (UK version of SonicTransporter running same SonicOrbiter OS) to an Innuos Zenith mkII and the jump in SQ was well worth the price difference.

 

The SonicTransporter / Audiostore Prestige line are good value at that price point. The Zeniths are better. Simples.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Foggie]

12 hours ago, bobfa said:

I think we are finding that the assumption about low power in the endpoint is not the only answer.  I have an i7 NUC running either AudioLinux or Euphony and it outperforms the low power endpoint I was using.

 

Thanks for the podcast above, I am listening to it now.  

 

Lets keep the subject on the Innous though.  Not other products.

Correct.  I am interested in now looking at my server BIOS, but unlikely a lot can be done as its custom MB.  Even the Win10 audiophile optimizer program that many use and like, would appear (to me) to be a major pain to use and maintain due to the constant change / updates to WIn.  I have no issues with Win platform and am technically proficient with it, but I do like the idea of a purpose built low level type OS running the server v.s. WIn+Mac.  

 

I'm not saying one platform/method is better than the other, as there are too many variables in everyone's rig, but when adding up the multitude of noise makers in the chain from start to finish of any given system (I mean everything) it's easy to conceive the significance of what's being talked about here.  Comes down to actually trying yourself, which is not easy.

[bobfa]

1 minute ago, Foggie said:

Correct.  I am interested in now looking at my server BIOS, but unlikely a lot can be done as its custom MB.  Even the Win10 audiophile optimizer program that many use and like, would appear (to me) to be a major pain to use and maintain due to the constant change / updates to WIn.  I have no issues with Win platform and am technically proficient with it, but I do like the idea of a purpose built low level type OS running the server v.s. WIn+Mac.  

 

I'm not saying one platform/method is better than the other, as there are too many variables in everyone's rig, but when adding up the multitude of noise makers in the chain from start to finish of any given system (I mean everything) it's easy to conceive the significance of what's being talked about here.  Comes down to actually trying yourself, which is not easy.

 

I am with you on how hard this is to actually test and maintain.  I mess around way too much with this stuff.  IT is fun but hard work to maintain and document while actually being able to listen to music in the house!  No wonder my wife just tells Siri or Alexa to play something.  

[Foggie]

8 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Foggie,

 

I went directly from an Audiostore Prestige 2 (UK version of SonicTransporter running same SonicOrbiter OS) to an Innuos Zenith mkII and the jump in SQ was well worth the price difference.

 

The SonicTransporter / Audiostore Prestige line are good value at that price point. The Zeniths are better. Simples.

 

Cheers,

Alan

For me, that just seems odd there would be as much difference that you cite, but certainly don't disagree with your experience - how could I. 

 

It would be a fun experience to try something like this and have such a marked improvement, but it isn't easy to cycle components in and out to test.

[BigAlMc]

16 minutes ago, Foggie said:

For me, that just seems odd there would be as much difference that you cite, but certainly don't disagree with your experience - how could I. 

 

It would be a fun experience to try something like this and have such a marked improvement, but it isn't easy to cycle components in and out to test.

 

When I had the Audiostore Prestige I had a fairly convoluted chain to try and maximise the SQ which evolved but basically entailed a MicroRendu, ISO Regen and Singxer SU-1.

 

With the Zenith MKII the SQ I was getting direct to my DAC - by both Ethernet and USB was so good I was able to dispense with the spaghetti chain of fixer-uppers.

 

Hence my argument earlier in this thread that it's better to not introduce noise than to try and remove it later. That was my experience anyway.

 

I then got my Zenith SE and it was even better still.

 

However much to my annoyance people said and I found it be to true that the TX-USBUltra further improved the USB output from the SE. But given we're now talking about a £1200 quid fixer-upper that needs a £400/500 power supply to shine it's a big leap compared to the relatively modest price points of the ISO Regen and SU-1.

 

I've no regrets as I enjoyed and loved them all. But Innuos know what they are doing and the Zenith series are very well engineered. The MKII impressed me so much I actually wondered whether I needed to bother with the SE at all. But given I'd already parted with an eye-watering figure for the SE I stuck to the plan.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[vortecjr]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

When I had the Audiostore Prestige I had a fairly convoluted chain to try and maximise the SQ which evolved but basically entailed a MicroRendu, ISO Regen and Singxer SU-1.

 

With the Zenith MKII the SQ I was getting direct to my DAC - by both Ethernet and USB was so good I was able to dispense with the spaghetti chain of fixer-uppers.

 

Hence my argument earlier in this thread that it's better to not introduce noise than to try and remove it later. That was my experience anyway.

 

I then got my Zenith SE and it was even better still.

 

However much to my annoyance people said and I found it be to true that the TX-USBUltra further improved the USB output from the SE. But given we're now talking about a £1200 quid fixer-upper that needs a £400/500 power supply to shine it's a big leap compared to the relatively modest price points of the ISO Regen and SU-1.

 

I've no regrets as I enjoyed and loved them all. But Innuos know what they are doing and the Zenith series are very well engineered. The MKII impressed me so much I actually wondered whether I needed to bother with the SE at all. But given I'd already parted with an eye-watering figure for the SE I stuck to the plan.

 

Cheers,

Alan

For the record...Sonore did not promote the daisy changing of these devices. Sonore has instead always promoted the micro/ultraRendu as a standalone endpoint or renderer with an external power supply. Back in 2016 when the microRendu launched we designed in everything we knew to be important within the limits of the available hardware. When the ultraRendu came out we expanded the design and included the newly available Crystek FEMTO oscillator. In my opinion the ultraRendu would have been the next step for you instead of adding an IsoRegen to a microRendu. We also provided a hardware update to the original microRendu with just the new Crystek FEMTO oscillator. This update did not make the microRendu into an ultraRendu per se, but it was a great option for pre-existing owners. Anyway, I respect your decision to experiment and/or use any gear you choose.

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

When the ultraRendu came out we expanded the design and included the newly available Crystek FEMTO oscillator. In my opinion the ultraRendu would have been the next step for you instead of adding an IsoRegen to a microRendu. 

 

Though to be fair, the ISO REGEN--with the same FEMTO clock as the ultraRendu, plus USB3.1 hub, plus full galvanic isolation--cost @BigAlMc $135 less than the cost difference between his micrRendu and the ultraRendu.  And it mounts right at the input of his DAC/DDC with the help of the included free USPCB A>B Adapter.

 

Just sayin'...   

I've enjoyed the microRendu/ISO REGEN combo in my system for some time.  Just waiting for the opticalRendu.

[BigAlMc]

35 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

We also provided a hardware update to the original microRendu with just the new Crystek FEMTO oscillator. This update did not make the microRendu into an ultraRendu per se, but it was a great option for pre-existing owners. 

 

Hi Jesus,

 

Was this the 1.4 board upgrade?

 

If so then I bought it via Martin Smith in the UK.

 

Cheers,

Alan