Innuos Zenith Mk3 or OpticalRendu + separate server?

[vortecjr]

17 hours ago, McNulty said:

@vortecjr : I'm trying to stay neutral in the discussions based on my limited own experience with the subject at hand, so the following question isn't meant to pick a side: I was wondering if the music software used could be an explanation for the differences between the outcome of your measurements and tests and the experiences of others. I understand Roon can be much more demanding for a server (and possibly the network) than Squeezelite or MPD/DLNA. Were your findings consistent between the various music software options?

I have not really studied this. However, it is when it's indexing your content for sure, but so is up-sampling via HQ Player which requires much more processing. Also streaming high sample rate native DSD is also relatively demanding on the network without I'll affect. Again I have not really studied this, but if the results were not consistent from player to player then the stream is not bit perfect. 

[vortecjr]

45 minutes ago, 4est said:

This is precisely my point!

 

I'll skip the defamation of likening someone to a used car salesman, but a surgeon is a degree'd professional with a license. They are often specialists as well. To suggest that he is that (an RF engineer) and just "knows", whilst the other poster is a car salesman is simply wrong IMO. It's your business and reputation Jesus, but it is no surprise to me that he got some flak. I am not even saying that I disagree, but I do not feel that a manufacture's rep should wade in in this manner on a product of their employer's. You and Superdad/Alex) tend to be pretty good at taking a punch and remaining professionally detached. Kudos!

 

The organ grinding monkey bit was over the top. I am sorry about that.

As discussed above Barrows is self employed and not an employee of Sonore. As such, Barrows is responsible for his content and if you have an issue with it or advise for him PM him.  

[vortecjr]

22 hours ago, incus said:

I abhor system snobbishness but looking at this list of components I would hope you could at least entertain the possibility that this system is actually letting a lot of noise of various types through and therefore affecting your conclusions about what each component does or doesn't do. Each of these components could be replaced/upgraded/optimized in many ways along the lines of what many people here have been doing and posting results about. Regardless of whether you are getting "stunning" results. I am glad your new optical rendu has brought you that level of satisfaction, but all improvements are relative to where you started.

Now here you really start to tread on thin ice. As one of the horde of people here and on all the various audio fora who continually strive to "do more than they have to" to optimize their playback chains, I'd like to point at the no one would be buying any of your products if we didn't fall into this category. Just because you have arrived at a place where you are satisfied with your sound (without going into the ethical issue of the fact that this involves the latest product you are about to bring to market!), this does not make anyone else "sad" for pushing further and staying tuned in to the latest developments from other corners. Many an audio product manufacturer has gone done the rabbit hole of extolling their product as end game, only to be eclipsed by the next "endgame" product - and the next and the next... Just be careful -- we sad people most likely make up a massive part of your clientele!!!

But it's not at all, is it? You make the very product he is considering and have just unreservedly endorsed it here AND you have just called anyone "sad" who feels the need to look elsewhere. There are no independent opinions when you are a manufacturer, sorry.

And yet when I swap out the LPS 1.2 powering my SOtM switch for an sBooster 12V, a SOtM sPS-500, a HDPlex 200W, or a battery pack, I got four very different sounds coming through my headphones. And you want to know why? Because the end of the the playback chain in ANY system is NOT a scope or piece of software measuring a signal - it is a pair of HUMAN EARS. A robot may "hear" no change in the output of a DAC, but a human being does. Rather than this being some unfortunate subjective artifact that must be thrown out in order for technical conclusions to hold, it is the ESSENCE of audio. The human ear is arguably the most important "component" in the playback chain. Removing it from your analysis is like removing speakers or headphones from a system and then trying ti convince someone of the purity and beauty of your signal by showing them a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper. Trust me this is the best sound you will ever hear. Wait, did I say hear? I meant see... I mean -- just look at the numbers...  In other words, instead of calling measurements "facts" and ignoring all other data, you need to take my conclusions - and those of countless others here - as facts also, facts that must be explained, not discarded. Otherwise you are just looking at one type of "fact" over another. And we know where that leads in our current political environment...

I’m open to a lot of stuff and thus the reason for testing some of the proposed solutions. 

 

No need to take the comment personally as I was referring to the situation as a whole. Understand that we make products that have a specific intent. Our intent is that you use your computer for emails, forum posting, and streaming. In addition, I don't promote people spending time and money upgrading things that don't need upgrading. Also, I have never used the word “endgame” to describe Sonore products. We have used the general term “endpoint” to distinguish the Rendu from a server. I used the word “independent” above to suggest that upgrading things that don’t need upgrading applies to my competitors gear as well. 

 

If you can here the difference between various PSs on an endpoint or server then there might be a bases for it, but not on a switch. The issue with relying on your ears is expectaional bios, preference, etc. mixed into your perception. The analyzer doesn’t have these human traits and is much more sensitive than your ears. 

[vortecjr]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

When I had the Audiostore Prestige I had a fairly convoluted chain to try and maximise the SQ which evolved but basically entailed a MicroRendu, ISO Regen and Singxer SU-1.

 

With the Zenith MKII the SQ I was getting direct to my DAC - by both Ethernet and USB was so good I was able to dispense with the spaghetti chain of fixer-uppers.

 

Hence my argument earlier in this thread that it's better to not introduce noise than to try and remove it later. That was my experience anyway.

 

I then got my Zenith SE and it was even better still.

 

However much to my annoyance people said and I found it be to true that the TX-USBUltra further improved the USB output from the SE. But given we're now talking about a £1200 quid fixer-upper that needs a £400/500 power supply to shine it's a big leap compared to the relatively modest price points of the ISO Regen and SU-1.

 

I've no regrets as I enjoyed and loved them all. But Innuos know what they are doing and the Zenith series are very well engineered. The MKII impressed me so much I actually wondered whether I needed to bother with the SE at all. But given I'd already parted with an eye-watering figure for the SE I stuck to the plan.

 

Cheers,

Alan

For the record...Sonore did not promote the daisy changing of these devices. Sonore has instead always promoted the micro/ultraRendu as a standalone endpoint or renderer with an external power supply. Back in 2016 when the microRendu launched we designed in everything we knew to be important within the limits of the available hardware. When the ultraRendu came out we expanded the design and included the newly available Crystek FEMTO oscillator. In my opinion the ultraRendu would have been the next step for you instead of adding an IsoRegen to a microRendu. We also provided a hardware update to the original microRendu with just the new Crystek FEMTO oscillator. This update did not make the microRendu into an ultraRendu per se, but it was a great option for pre-existing owners. Anyway, I respect your decision to experiment and/or use any gear you choose.

[vortecjr]

Just remember when the microRendu came out the USB Regen is what was available. The ultraRendu and the ISO Regen came out later around the same time more or less. Did you include the cost of the second power supply in your analysis;)     

[vortecjr]

2 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Jesus,

 

Was this the 1.4 board upgrade?

 

If so then I bought it via Martin Smith in the UK.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Yes. I know because you stated it above. I was just trying to be complete in my answer. 

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

 

In fairness I had the ISO Regen and the SU-1 powered off the same LPS-1 for convenience even tho I understood there was an SQ penalty in doing so.

 

But much as I like both yours and Alex's products I found the Zenith beat them.

 

But different products and different price brackets, so not trying to take anything away from either of you.

 

Cheers,

Alan

That was not a good solution and defeats the inherent isolation. Also, the LPS-1 was replaced with the LPS-1.2 which is reportedly better than the original in measurements. IMO these are apples and oranges, but no worries I understand where you are coming from.