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Innuos Zenith Mk3 or OpticalRendu + separate server?


McNulty

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It took me a whole afternoon digesting this thread. I am very interested in the discussion, because I am considering an Innuos Statement to my system.

 

My dealer assures me it will make a big difference.

 

But the people in dCS (I use a Vivaldi stack) are reluctant with regards to the benefits. They say that whatever happens before the upsampler, as long as it is bit perfect, is of little meaning.

 

They put their money where their mouth is. dCS last move was to launch the Mosaic, that is kind of an upnp control point+renderer capabilities. And they chose the minimserver as reference to feed the music locally. 

 

I experimented with Roon from my qnap Nas, then from an i3 nuc running rock, then from a full tower i9 with 32gb ram running rock and running Windows server with audiophileoptimzer (this is the computer I used with HQPlayer before the Vivaldi). No difference. Compared Roon to the minimserver. No diference. As long as I don't change the network (I am using a SOtM switch connect via optical to my main router, with hdplex200w lps), "the songs remains the same".

 

My doubt is whether the Innuos network output, connected directly to the dCS upsampler, will make a difference. Does anyone have any experience with similar setups, using dCS products and Innuos?

 

I have also used UltraRendu with lps1 and lps1.2 from uptone. Sweet sound. But no comparison to the Vivaldi upsampler (and given the price points, one should not expect a different outcome). 

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42 minutes ago, jvvita said:

It took me a whole afternoon digesting this thread. I am very interested in the discussion, because I am considering an Innuos Statement to my system.

 

My dealer assures me it will make a big difference.

 

But the people in dCS (I use a Vivaldi stack) are reluctant with regards to the benefits. They say that whatever happens before the upsampler, as long as it is bit perfect, is of little meaning.

 

They put their money where their mouth is. dCS last move was to launch the Mosaic, that is kind of an upnp control point+renderer capabilities. And they chose the minimserver as reference to feed the music locally. 

 

I experimented with Roon from my qnap Nas, then from an i3 nuc running rock, then from a full tower i9 with 32gb ram running rock and running Windows server with audiophileoptimzer (this is the computer I used with HQPlayer before the Vivaldi). No difference. Compared Roon to the minimserver. No diference. As long as I don't change the network (I am using a SOtM switch connect via optical to my main router, with hdplex200w lps), "the songs remains the same".

 

My doubt is whether the Innuos network output, connected directly to the dCS upsampler, will make a difference. Does anyone have any experience with similar setups, using dCS products and Innuos?

 

I have also used UltraRendu with lps1 and lps1.2 from uptone. Sweet sound. But no comparison to the Vivaldi upsampler (and given the price points, one should not expect a different outcome). 

 

I would be shocked if you don't hear improvement, but I don't have the Vivaldi stack. 

 

Maybe you can contact this person - https://community.roonlabs.com/t/getting-the-most-from-vivaldi-and-roon/39025/25

Quote

The Vivaldi Upsampler worked with the ethernet output of the Innuos Zenith SE, no problem. The sound was much better than before the use of the Innuos. They work really well together.

 

Industry disclosure:
https://chicagohifi.com

Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs

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On 7/21/2019 at 12:32 AM, jvvita said:

But the people in dCS (I use a Vivaldi stack) are reluctant with regards to the benefits. They say that whatever happens before the upsampler, as long as it is bit perfect, is of little meaning.

In theory. Not in practice from my long experience (I have used dCS since 1998 or 9).

 

I have used an Innuos Zenith MkII into my Vivaldi 2 (USB connection) and now use a Melco N17H/2 as NAS feeding a dCS Network Bridge ( I do not have  a Vivaldi upsampler as a  personal preference). If one does not consider anything else then both the Innuos and the Network Bridge deliver bit perfect data streams to the Vivaldi DAC. Do they sound the same? Hardly. Did the Innuos and my (then) PC based music replay system, also delivering a bit perfect stream, sound the same. No. Haven't tried it yet but will the Melco used as a full USB streamer  connected directly to the DAC sound the same as using its direct ethernet connection to the Network Bridge/DAC ?  I doubt it.

 

The Innuos Statement is a pretty expensive item. At this level I would expect the dealer to either set up a convincing demonstration of it at his premises or, preferably, bring it to my home for an audition.

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  • 4 weeks later...

No, I didn't say that. I said that my PC based system sounded different as did an Innuos Zenith MK II,  to my Melco ( as NAS) / dCS Network Bridge source. I have not used HQ player or a dedicated ethernet card. I was using JRiver + various ifi USB conditioning devices. The HQ player etc.  that you raise is therefore another set of variables and one that I have no experience of. I would mention, though, that the Melco has an advantage when used as an NAS in that it plugs directly into the Network Bridge and therefore avoids a network switch. Have a look at Melco's website if you need further detail.

 

I guess that as the Melco/dCS is now my source and not the Zenith MK.II or the PC/JRiver setup you could deduce that I consider the Melco/dCS superior to either. However the Zenith MKII is not the Innuos Statement which may or may not be better ( see earlier postings in this thread to which my initial posting referred).

 

As I indicated earlier if one is going to spend the large sum needed for the Innuos Statement ,or other high end component, then you had better hear it first at home on loan or at a well conducted dealer demonstration. Ultimately it is your opinion that counts, not mine. Incidentally, for example,  I have just noted that one of the few UK dealers ( The Audiobarn) who has a Statement offers it on a 14 day loan to genuine prospective purchasers. That is the kind of dealer relationship that  you need to seek. I would say the same if you are looking at a Melco ( or other)/Network Bridge combination. In my case the dealer brought the pair to my home so I could directly compare them to what I had. There is a financial limit to components that I am prepared to just take a punt on and 8-10K gbp certainly exceeds that limit 😉.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Anyone have a comment on the original post?

The optical Rendu has been around for a bit? Or at least the concept that the optical Rendu affects the decision about the server feeding it?

MPC power cable->2010 Mac Mini->jitterbug>Cardas clear usb cable->Ayre QB-9 DSD dac>kimber hero->passlabs Xp-20 preamp->kimber heros->pass labs X150.8>linn k400 speaker cable->infinity intermezzo 2.6 (with R.A.B.O.S.)->REl G-2 , Amarra as my player

 

Shunyata triton...Shunyata power cables..

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My system has changed a bit since my last post..new system as below...I think..

MPC power cable->2010 Mac Mini->jitterbug>Cardas clear usb cable->Ayre QB-9 DSD dac>kimber hero->passlabs Xp-20 preamp->kimber heros->pass labs X150.8>linn k400 speaker cable->infinity intermezzo 2.6 (with R.A.B.O.S.)->REl G-2 , Amarra as my player

 

Shunyata triton...Shunyata power cables..

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Didn’t work..

MPC power cable->2010 Mac Mini->jitterbug>Cardas clear usb cable->Ayre QB-9 DSD dac>kimber hero->passlabs Xp-20 preamp->kimber heros->pass labs X150.8>linn k400 speaker cable->infinity intermezzo 2.6 (with R.A.B.O.S.)->REl G-2 , Amarra as my player

 

Shunyata triton...Shunyata power cables..

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 My system...

 

Mac. Mini..Roon core...Ethernet...optical module..

optical Rendu ..jitterbug...

cardas clear usb cable...Ayre Qb-9 DSD..

balanced kimber hero to Pass Xp-20 pre...Pass 150.8...

art audio to Fritz Carrera B...

REL G-2 sub...

MPC power cable->2010 Mac Mini->jitterbug>Cardas clear usb cable->Ayre QB-9 DSD dac>kimber hero->passlabs Xp-20 preamp->kimber heros->pass labs X150.8>linn k400 speaker cable->infinity intermezzo 2.6 (with R.A.B.O.S.)->REl G-2 , Amarra as my player

 

Shunyata triton...Shunyata power cables..

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  • 11 months later...

Listening impressions of Innuos Statement, Signature Rendu SE (non-optical) and Lumin X1

 

I have been a happy user of Sonore Rendus for several years and still am one. Recently I decided to audition possible upgrades. I audtioned the above 3 models, and the following are my impression.

 

All 3 give excellent sound but with some audible differences (in my system) mainly in perceived transparency and detail. To my ears, ranking highest to lowest in transparency and perceived detail are :

 

1. Innuous Statement 

2. Sonore Signature rendu SE (non optical)

3. Lumin X1

 

An example of what I mean by transparency is that in orchestral music, one gets a sense of individual violins playing rather than a homogeneous sound.

 

all 3 sound excellent but if your system is already “too detailed” you may prefer the Sonore or Lumin. 
 

The differences were audible but not huge. Less of a difference than inserting a good power conditioner for the source server.

 

obviously these 3 options are at vastly different price levels but the test is from a cost no object perspective.

 

I may upgrade to the inuos but will keep the Sonore in the system anyway. It sounds good and it can accommodate DSD512 and PCM768, plus use of HQplayer on a mac, which the Innuos cannot. This is useful on harsh sounding recordings.

 

system

MSB Select DAC With ProUSB optical input

Dartzeel Preamp and monoblocs

Wilson XLF

 

test material

mostly classical and jazz 


MSB Select DAC with optical ProI2S

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@Geoff368, I would consider that the Signature Rendu SE can be upgraded to the optical version for a reasonable price, and that the optical upgrade offers a very significant upgrade in sound quality.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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17 minutes ago, barrows said:

@Geoff368, I would consider that the Signature Rendu SE can be upgraded to the optical version for a reasonable price, and that the optical upgrade offers a very significant upgrade in sound quality.


The Prousb input on the MSB DAC already uses fiber optics. So electrical isolation is already available in my set up through any usb source. I am aware the new Signature SE optique has other upgrades besides the use of optical. I would be interested in any user reviews of the upgraded signature SE vs the old one i have.

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I moved from an Innuos Zenith Mk3 to a Signature Rendu SE (the latest one with all the upgrades and optical) and a separate server (DIY custom build) which is located in a different room. In my system the two approaches weren't even close. The Sonore approach is so much better in every way to my ears.

 

I did love my Innuos, but the SSR SE is the best I've ever heard.

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4 minutes ago, NYCEnglish said:

I moved from an Innuos Zen Mk3


Did you mean “from a ZENith MK3”? 😂😂
 

In all seriousness, thanks for sharing your impressions. I gotta try your approach some day. The signature Rendu SE (optical) looks amazing. What are you using as Roon Core? Nucleus?

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12 hours ago, NYCEnglish said:

I moved from an Innuos Zenith Mk3 to a Signature Rendu SE (the latest one with all the upgrades and optical) and a separate server (DIY custom build) which is located in a different room. In my system the two approaches weren't even close. The Sonore approach is so much better in every way to my ears.

 

I did love my Innuos, but the SSR SE is the best I've ever heard.


Could you elaborate on how the SSR SE sound was different from the Innuos?

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8 minutes ago, NYCEnglish said:

Best way to describe it would be deeper soundstage, a little more clarity, but most of all more relaxing and enjoyable to listen to. Somehow comes across to me as somehow smoother and effortless with even less noise than the Innuos which was excellent. 


Thanks for the observations. I will certainly try out the SSR SE upgrade.

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