Innuos Zenith Mk3 or OpticalRendu + separate server?

[McNulty]

Hi guys, this is my first post after lurking the forum for a couple of weeks, hope you can help me a bit in my quest for a new streamer.

 

As a bit of background, I intend to use the streamer with Roon. My DAC can handle up to DSD128 and I will only use one Roon streamer/endpoint. The full DIY route (AL/NUC) is not for me, I'm looking for a more off the shelf solution.

 

As I already have an optical network in place, I was leaning towards the Sonore OpticalRendu, powered by an LPS 1.2. This would mean I can get the FMC out of my system and connect the OpticalRendu directly to my Cisco switch, which has an optical connection. Apart from the OpticalRendu I would also need a Roon server such as a NUC with RoonRock (bit DIY) or a SonicTransporter (more off the shelf).  

 

As an alternative, the Innuos Zenith Mk3 seemed like a more simple one-box solution, and a separate server and an LPS for both the streamer and the server wouldn't be necessary. 

 

Roon themselves seem to advice a two-box solution, but on the other hand many users seem happy with the Innuos SQ and UX. I'm currently leaning towards the Innuos as the KISS option. On the other hand, the OpticalRendu and server could provide more flexibility for future upgrades. 

 

Dealer price for the Zenith Mk3 in Europe is EUR 3,395. Total price for the OpticalRendu / server / LPSs package would not be much lower I expect, taking into account transport and customs from US to Europe. 

 

Maybe this seems like an apples and oranges comparison, but I was still hoping maybe others have done a similar comparison. Not strictly limited to the OpticalRendu, as the model is not for sale yet, but a similar two-box vs one-box comparison. Note I've already booked a demo for the Zenith at a local dealer, but expect a demo of the OpticalRendu will not be possible. Thanks for any input you can provide. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[McNulty]

Many thanks for all your responses. Positively surprised by all the feedback. I'll try to go into some of your suggestions from oldest to newest post.

 

I've checked out the Darko video last week. It appears John used the Innuos as an endpoint only, so not fully similar to my intended use. A bit off topic but I found it odd that around the 18th minute he talks about using the Innuos as a one box Roon solution only in relation to the Squeezelite experimental mode and doesn't discuss the Roon Core mode.

 

I won't use the ripping functionality of the Innuos so indeed this is not a decisive feature. Have also considered Antipodes EX but that model seems a bit overpriced in Europe TBH. 

 

My current streamer is a modded Sonos ZP90 without Roon (so no music server necessary, I do have a Synology NAS for file storage) and my DAC is a Luxman DA-06. Based on the Stereophile measurements by John Atkinson of the DA-06 it seems USB is the preferred input for this DAC (I haven't done a comparison myself). As both the Zenith and the OpticalRendu have USB outputs, this seems to fit nicely.

 

I do have a 2014 MacMini with 8 GB in my home office that could function as a Roon server with the OpticalRendu, but see this as a temporary solution, as I would rather have a dedicated Roon server that I can always leave on. The Audiostore server mentioned by BigAlMc indeed can be an alternative for a SonicTransporter, although they too seem a bit pricey.

 

With regard to the noise of the last optical receiver, I think I kinda got that covered in my current setup by using the optical input of the Cisco 2960-8TC switch before the streamer instead of an FMC with a SMPS. 

 

To sum things up I still haven't made my final decision yet, but of course the OpticalRendu is not released yet and I still have a demo of the Zenith planned, so there's some time to think things over. Again, thanks for all your input so far.

 

 

[McNulty]

@BigAlMc: if I understand correctly, you use the Zenith with its ethernet output. Would you say there's a large SQ delta with the Zeniths USB output directly connected with the DAC?

[McNulty]

As the OP I have no problem with the Sonore guys explaining their view on the best streaming approach and the implementation in their upcoming product. 

[McNulty]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Oh the Op has long since given up on this thread and the argumentative types propelling it in circles 🙄

 

@McNulty Did you decide or would you care to share your latest thinking? We promise to be nice regardless.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Based on Alans request, I will update you on my little 'Quest'. 

 

This afternoon I went to a local dealer to demo the Zenith Mk3. The dealer not only carries Innuos, but also the speaker, amp and DAC brands that I have at home. Unfortunately he didn't have my specific models at hand today, but he tried to put together a set up with a sound similar to mine. 

 

I must admit the dealers setup I'm not familiair with, combined with the different room acoustics, made it difficult to assess what the Innuos contributed specifically to the sound as a whole. There were some very nice details, but overall I wasn't overwhelmed, something seemed to be missing in the sound. The dealer has offered me a home demo, so I can have a listen in my own set up and get a better judgment of the Innuos and directly compare it to my current streamer.

 

Based on the demo and using the Innuos interface I got the feeling a lot of effort and development was put in the ripping facility and the library management of ripped CDs. I can see for a lot of people this is a positive thing, but for me it is more negative, as I will not be using these functions but do have to pay for it (as part of the purchase price) and it makes the component larger than necessary.

 

With regard to all the postings in this thread, I have read every one of them. Although the discussions have had some rough edges, it has given me an overview of the two camps (server quality doesn't matter vs. server must be of very good quality).

 

If I'm honest, with Roon I think both options will ultimately give me audiophilia nervosa: if I go for the OpticalRendu, after a while I would want to try it with a high quality server and DAS. If I go for the Zenith, after a while I would want to try it with a separate renderer/endpoint.

 

@incus made a fair point I think with his argument on flexibility. I also think resale value of the OpticalRendu will be better after a while than that of the Zenith. When I choose the OpticalRendu, I also need to buy a power supply. I'm following the OpticalRendu thread with great interest to see Sonores final PSU recommendations, so I know what the total costs of Rendu + PS would be.

 

To make things more complicated, a third contender has entered the ring: an Auralic Aries G2 was offered to me with a dealer discount, making it attainable within my price range. The nice thing about the Aries G2 is that it apparently has an excellent implementation of WiFi (https://darko.audio/2018/08/ethernet-or-wifi-which-is-better-for-high-end-audio-streaming/), providing similar network isolation as optical and this would allow me to get rid of not only the FMC in my system, but also the switch and their power supplies. The Auralic Lightning app has matured enough that with this alternative, I might postpone getting a Roon subscription, which would also mean a separate server wouldn't be necessary yet. 

 

If anyone wants to chime with any additional things to consider in my thought process they are more than welcome. With regard to the importance of the quality of the server, I would say the arguments from both sides have been discussed enough now and further discussions could possibly be split off to a separate topic.

 

 

 

 

 

  

[McNulty]

@vortecjr : I'm trying to stay neutral in the discussions based on my limited own experience with the subject at hand, so the following question isn't meant to pick a side: I was wondering if the music software used could be an explanation for the differences between the outcome of your measurements and tests and the experiences of others. I understand Roon can be much more demanding for a server (and possibly the network) than Squeezelite or MPD/DLNA. Were your findings consistent between the various music software options?