Popular Post OE333 Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 Yes, SDV3100HV is a quite expensive DAC but its quality is really outstanding and by the way, the price per kilogram is even lower than that of the DAC8DSD 😉 Also the SDV3100HV is not a pure DAC - it is a „streaming DAC“ with a lot of sources (streamer, music services, FM, DAB+, Bluetooth, etc.) built in. Here some background information: When developing this DAC it was one idea to support direct ethernet streaming up to the maximum data rate that this DAC can handle (native DSD 48k*1024) but we were not sure if we could achieve this goal at the moment of product launch or if it would be an option for the future. The basic concept of this DAC included a GBit ethernet switch to route the ethernet to different endpoints within the SDV3100HV and some space for a compute module which should run Signalysts NAA software.... At the time of the first product announcements it was not clear if we would succeed in tranferring DSD streams at this bitrate and this is the reason why the NAA feature was not mentioned on the first feature list. Today I can confirm, that the NAA feature is on board - and it is working flawlessly even with the highest data rates. Besides the NAA there are two USB inputs for direct connection of PCs etc. Regarding the above speculations about the USB receiver used: SDV3100HV uses a proprietary USB receiver developed specially for this DAC. It is actually one of the very first USB receivers that supports the new UAC3 standard with all its features. This receiver is supported under Windows with a prorietary driver. To ensure Linux compatibility we have provided some patches to the Linux kernel and we hope that they will be included in mainline kernel very soon. The DSD section of this DAC uses an improved version of the T+A “True1Bit Converter“ with 32 converter elements per channel (DAC8DSD has 6 elements). This results in 3.1 Billion D/A conversions per second. At these rates extremely accurate clocking becomes VERY important and this is why SDV3100HV inludes an ultra precision clocking hardware... All analog processing is completely discrete (no OP-Amps) and uses T+A’s High Voltage technology. UELong, emcdade, rando and 1 other 4 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 4:55 PM, Ben-M said: I didn't know that 100% and I do know that the Amanero USB board in the DAC 8 DSD is an older model which makes configuring it much more difficult, but there has been progress and you can see that in the beta firmwares that can be flashed onto the DAC 8 DSD right now. And Amanero's persistence that it's possible is also reassuring, as they'd be the best SMEs to say whether there'll be light at the end of this tunnel or not. In having talked with both T+A about this on several occasions over the past 18 months and with Amanero, I been given the impression that there's not a concerted effort from T+A about this problem. Amanero may have some interest, but without support and ownership from T+A, the right elements aren't in play to drive a dependable outcome in a sensible timeframe. That's my opinion, but I have put some legwork into it vs. just firing off the cuff. ... even though a bit off topic in this thread: There is no "old" or "new" Amanero board - in fact there is only one Amanero USB receiver design. Most other companies just use the Amanero standard module. T+A decided to place the whole Amanero hardware directly on the DAC PCB to get shorter signal paths - otherwise everything is 100% compatible to the Amanero original design. Please believe me, we try what we can to push Amanero and we give all support that we can (like paying license fees, testing, testing testing, helping Amanero with hardware etc.) but we can not help with the development of the receivcer firmware itsself because it is closed source.... For the new SD/SDV3100HV devices with their DSD1024 capability (which is out of reach for the Amanero design) we decided to design our own UAC3 compliant proprietary USB receiver solution. This solution supports native DSD1024 for both Windows and LInux. The necessary Linux patches were made available by us and we hope that they will be included in mainline kernel soon. For the time beeing anybody interested in the patches please send me a PM. barrows, emcdade and 4est 2 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 Hi Em2016, I can confirm that jitter performance is the same for all formats and rates. The D/A converter is running completely on clock signals generated by the master clock oscillators located directly in the converter section. Currently only the NAA protocol is supported on the ethernet module but this could easily be changed. For ethernet there is a separate single board computer module and it would be possible to implement other protocols as well. During development I have also tested with roon bridge on that SBC and it also worked perfectly well but of course limited to DSD512 which is currently the maximum rate supported by roon. As we wanted to have the best performance we decided for Signalysts NAA as we think this gives the best quality and highest data rates currently available. But recommendations for other protocols are welcome... ferenc, 4est, asdf1000 and 1 other 2 1 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 Thanks for the congratulations... All digital signals run through a central processor which does the upsampling in case of PCM signals and it processes DSD signals to distribute them to the 32 converter elements of the DSD DAC. This central processing unit has 3 USB inputs, one I2S for PCM and a DSD input. The synchronous signals coming for example from S/P-DIF inputs, from HDMI or from an external disc player use the I2S input. DSD Signals from our external PDT3100HV SACD transport use the DSD path and asynchronous sources are routed via the USB inputs. As ethernet is using asynchronuos transfer mode and thus uses one of the 3 USB inputs - the other two are available as external inputs. Below I have added a prototype photo of the central digital audio processor. The high frequency digital audio data coming out of this processor are sent via a HF connector on the back side of the PCB through the 1 cm thick aluminium base plate right to the D/A board which is mounted on the other side of the base plate. So the signal path between processor and D/A converter is extremely short and very well shielded - so no chance for noise induced signal degradation... Solstice380 and asdf1000 2 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2019 Yes, you are right, the signal path is Ethernet -> USB -> DSD. We use USB at this stage because it is asynchronous. Keeping the signal path asynchronous as long as possible means that the synchronous D/A clocking comes into play only at the very last stage of the signal chain. If we would use I2S or DSD with synchronous clocking at an early stage to transfer the signals to the DSP this would lengthen the synchronous part of the path introduce more jitter. 8kHz packet noise is not a problem with this converter because we have a complete galvanic isolation between digital and analog sections. So any kind of digital noise does not influence the converter and the analog output sections. Here photo of a prototype D/A converter board. Maybe you can see the white line which shows the boundary between digital and the isolated converter/analog circuit parts... asdf1000 and emcdade 2 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Dear Ben, there are ways to use native DSD256 with DAC8DSD and Linux. I know that some members of this forum do this with very good success. I would like to propose to continue the DAC8DSD related questions in the DAC8DSD thread. T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 ... the R series already has all elements of this technology i.e. T+A True-1-Bit DAC, extremely precice re-clocking, digital/analog isolation, discrete analog electronics without OP-Amps etc. The difference is that the R-series supports a maximum DSD rate of 48k*512. True-1-Bit processing @ DSD1024 is really extremely complicated and costly and will remain an exclusive feature of the SDV3100HV / SD3100HV models. T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 5:01 PM, barrows said: @OE333, thank you for posting the details of T+As very impressive new DAC here, your contribution to the forums is appreciated! As you appear to be a direct representative of T+A, please add something to your signature indicating your relationship to the company. Again, I am very happy to be able to have you post here, and share details of the product! Yes, good point. I have added a signature. I want to point out, that I am here in this forum being an audiophile myself. I am happy if I can share my knowledge and give some insights into T+A technology and developments and I offer my help to members of this forum in all questions regarding T+A devices... rando, barrows and Scyld 1 1 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 On 4/11/2019 at 12:54 AM, Sunya said: Since the SD/SDV3100 now support PCM up to 768kHz it means you switched to AKM from BB; is it the AK4497 or the very new AK4499? Also since you don't use the chip built in digital filters, do you upsample the signal in the DSP to 705.6/768kHz? I respect AKM as a very capable manufacturer of very good sounding DACs. In the SDV3100HV TI (formerly BurrBrown) PCM1795 are used. These chips can be used at higher rates than 384 if the internal upsampling filters are bypassed. Bypassing the internal filters makes sense in our case because we use our own proprietary T+A upsampling algorithms. All upsampling is done is done in the DSP. T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2019 On 4/10/2019 at 4:42 PM, StreamFidelity said: Hi OE333, As a T + A fan, I've missed a high-quality streaming DAC in the HV segment for some time now. Nice that there is one now. Currently I enjoy listening to the Holo Audio Spring DAC contrary to the usual opinion in oversampling (OS) DSD mode: Either PCM or DSD input over all sampled DSD approach to digital to analog converter. That sounds very good to my ears. Some manufacturers also go this way and convert every signal (including PCM) into DSD. For example EMM Labs DAC V2 or PS Audio DirectStream DAC. Optionally also in Lumin DACs. Is this option also possible in the SDV3100HV / SD3100HV? Conversion to ultra-high rate DSD can be done in many ways but only the very best algorithms will bring an optimal performance. The computing power needed for such algorithms is extreme and can be best achieved with very powerful PCs (and GPU co-processing). So we leave the task of conversion/upsampling to specialized programs like HQPlayer and concentrate on doing a best possible D/A conversion with the ultra-high rate DSD signals delivered from the Audio PC. Also it is only possible with a PC based upsampling to support the vast number of algorithms as for example HQPlayer does. This approach is also very future-proof as both the upsampling software and the PC hardware can easily be upgraded when new algorithms get available and more powerful processors come to the market. Such easy upgrade is almost impossible if the conversion is an integral part of the DAC. For PCM upsampling things are somewhat different. Here less computing power is needed and the upsampling can well be integrated - like it is done in the T+A DACs. But also with PCM it is possible to do the upsampling externally and send PCM 768 directly to the DAC completely bypassing the internal processing. All this does not mean that there is no DSD processing done in the DAC. With the T+A True 1 Bit Converter each incoming DSD bit is converted by 16 balanced converter stages resulting in up to 3.1 billion conversions per second. This converter structure performs a filtering function and reduces high frequency noise just like additional oversampling would do. So in the SDV 3100HV a DSD1024 input stream results in fs*1024*32 conversions per second and the outcome is a very clean analog signal... asdf1000 and barrows 2 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted May 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Cortes said: @OE33, the ingeneering looks really impressive, as looking at a Ferrary, and also the features. But, if one closes the eyes, do you have any proof ( some style of double blind test) that an average listenner is able to discern the $26k T+A from a good $1k o $500 DAC?. proof ? Well: MEASURE & LISTEN The phsyscist in me says MEASURE ! By measurements we can prove that no engineering faults were made and that technically everything works as it should. But of course a technically correct and well engineered device can only be the necessary basis for a good sounding eqipment. So the audiophile in me says LISTEN ! The problem with listening tests is that all such tests are more or less subjective. In almost all cases none of the listeners was present when the recording was made - so how can be judged if equipment A or equipment B is closer to the original ? The only thing we can do is listen and find out what we like best. And then of course there is the final question "Is it worth the money ?" I think there is no objective answer to this question - this question can only be answered very subjectively by everyone for her-/himself... guiltyboxswapper, asdf1000, Miska and 3 others 4 1 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 @StreamFidelity an upgrade for the MP3000HV is currently under development.... T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said: @OE333 That would be great! Is there information about the specifications? ... not yet - but official information will be available soon. T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 5/3/2019 at 6:42 PM, guiltyboxswapper said: When you mean upgrade, do you mean a new product replacing the MP3000HV? Is it likely to have the same ethernet input as the 3100? No, with upgrade I mean an upgrade of existing MP3000HV to bring most of the features of the successor model MP3100HV to the older models. This upgrade will mean a complete exchange of the digital processing board and the streaming module. Details about the MP3000HV upgrade program will be announced in the near future by T+A. T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 1:49 PM, pvanosta said: Has anyone tested (or owned) the T+A SD-3100HV or SDV-3100HV by any chance? Earlier in this thread, there were some questions around Ethernet connection and the ability to play DSD files over ethernet and which Dacs were capable of doing this. The last time I emailed T+A directly (approx 6 months ago), they clearly stated that DSD was only supported via USB and not via ethernet. Some of the posts in this thread seem to indicate the opposite, unless I am misreading... DSD1024 over ethernet works with SD3100HV and SDV3100HV. You only need to have HQ player installed on your computer, then you can select the SD(V)3100HV as a NAA endpoint. DSD1024 via the USB input also works if you want to connect your computer directly. Sam Lord 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted March 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2020 49 minutes ago, pvanosta said: I use roon on a NAS (with Roon ROCK running on a fanless NUC). The whole os connected via ethernet to a Network DAC (in my case the Auralic Vega G1). Would the SDV 3100HV slot in the place of the Auralic and accept DSD over ethernet in this config (and become the Roon endpoint)? High rate DSD (such as DSD512 or DSD1024) is possible with the SD(V)3100HV in two ways: 1.) Direct USB connection between server PC (Windows or Linux based) and the SD(V)3100HV, using the USB input of the SD(V)3100HV. 2.) Ethernet connection between server and SD(V)3100HV using the NAA built into the SD(V)3100HV. In your case (solution 2) HQ Player needs to be installed on the server additionally to roon. HQ Player will connect to the NAA in the SD(V)3100HV and use this NAA as audio endpoint. The roon/HQ Player combination works very well and you will profit from the excellent sounding upsampling / DSD conversion algorithms of HQ Player. Sam Lord and Miska 2 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 ... I forgot to mention: DSD up to DSD256 is also possible with DoP. Maybe this information is useful for users with Non-Windows or Non-latest-Linux source devices. Miska 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
OE333 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 18 hours ago, tdx said: Reviving this thread, I was wondering if more than 4 years after the announcement of the HV series, there are any other newer/more affordable DACs that can take an NAA DSD1024 or at least DSD512 signal over Ethernet? Or is the HV line still the only and expensive game in town? Thanks SD3100HV and SDV3100HV are still the only T+A devices with built-in NAA. But you could use DAC200 (up to DDS1024) or PSD3100HV (up to DSD512) with an external NAA. T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now