louisxiawei Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/audiosystems/hv-series/ I believe it is a very HQplayer friendly DAC @Miska. Hope they can trickle down the technology upgrade to dac 8 dsd soon. Solstice380 1 Software: Roon, Tidal, HQplayer HQplayer PC: i9 7980XE, Titan Xp, RTX 3090; i9 9900K, Titan V DAC: Holo Audio MAY L2, T+A DAC8 DSD, exasound e12, iFi micro iDSD BL USB tweaks: Intona, Uptone (ISO) regen, LPS-1, LPS-1.2, Sbooster Vbus2, Curious cables, SUPRA Certified HiSpeed USB cable NAA: Logic CL100 powered by Uptone JS-2 AMP: Spectral DMC 30SV, Spectral DMA 300RS Speaker: Magico S3 MKII Rack: HRS SXR signature Link to comment
EdmontonCanuck Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 This has a LAN ethernet digital input? So no need for an ethernet to USB bridge streamer? That's pretty appealing. CAPS Pipeline with HDPlex Linear PSU running Win10 64 bit, AO 2.0, RoonServer, HQPlayer -> T+A DAC8 DSD -> Linear Tube Audio's MicroZOTL2 Headphone Amp with Mojo Audio's Illuminati Linear PSU -> Focal Utopia/Audeze LCD-3 Link to comment
Miska Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, louisxiawei said: https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/audiosystems/hv-series/ I believe it is a very HQplayer friendly DAC @Miska. Yes, certainly I'd expect it to work very nicely! Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Popular Post mav52 Posted February 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2019 Oh yes a bargain for $26,359. Should be a winner though. lucretius and eternaloptimist 2 The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Wow. There aren’t many DACs that support DSD512 over ethernet input. I think I can count them on one hand. And this does DSD1024 on ethernet. Hopefully performance isn’t compromised at these high sample rates though. Given T+A’s track record I’m sure it’s excellent at all sample rates. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Have they switched to XMOS for USB interface @Miska? Link to comment
louisxiawei Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Em2016 said: Wow. There aren’t many DACs that support DSD512 over ethernet input. I think I can count them on one hand. And this does DSD1024 on ethernet. Hopefully performance isn’t compromised at these high sample rates though. Given T+A’s track record I’m sure it’s excellent at all sample rates. I'm just curious: which DACs support dsd 512 over Ethernet? I'm only aware of merging and playback desgin are doing dsd over Ethernet, but limit is dsd 256. Software: Roon, Tidal, HQplayer HQplayer PC: i9 7980XE, Titan Xp, RTX 3090; i9 9900K, Titan V DAC: Holo Audio MAY L2, T+A DAC8 DSD, exasound e12, iFi micro iDSD BL USB tweaks: Intona, Uptone (ISO) regen, LPS-1, LPS-1.2, Sbooster Vbus2, Curious cables, SUPRA Certified HiSpeed USB cable NAA: Logic CL100 powered by Uptone JS-2 AMP: Spectral DMC 30SV, Spectral DMA 300RS Speaker: Magico S3 MKII Rack: HRS SXR signature Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, louisxiawei said: I'm just curious: which DACs support dsd 512 over Ethernet? I'm only aware of merging and playback desgin are doing dsd over Ethernet, but limit is dsd 256. Lumin X1, Auralic Vega G2. I would have to double check Cary Audio DMS-550. But yeh, can be counted on one hand (not many...) None of those support NAA on their ethernet input of course. Link to comment
mav52 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 22 hours ago, Miska said: Yes, certainly I'd expect it to work very nicely! Does HQP support DSD 1024 and what kind of computing power will the end user need to use it, DSD 512 took a whole new system for me The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
Schedel Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Where does it say that it does DSD1024 over ethernet? Billy Link to comment
Popular Post Miska Posted February 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, mav52 said: Does HQP support DSD 1024 and what kind of computing power will the end user need to use it, DSD 512 took a whole new system for me Yes, it's been supported for a while already, but only recently devices have appeared that also support it. This device is "a little bit outside of my budget", but I've been testing DSD1024 on Holo Spring 2 DAC. It takes about twice as much power as DSD512. With -2s filters and/or with help of recent GPUs it is not too hard to reach though. I've done most of my testing and measurements with poly-sinc-ext2. asdf1000 and mav52 2 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Miska Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 13 hours ago, louisxiawei said: I'm just curious: which DACs support dsd 512 over Ethernet? I'm only aware of merging and playback desgin are doing dsd over Ethernet, but limit is dsd 256. Merging for example does 8 channels of DSD256 over ethernet, that is 86 Mbps. Stereo DSD1024 is the same 86 Mbps... Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
mav52 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 hours ago, Miska said: Yes, it's been supported for a while already, but only recently devices have appeared that also support it. This device is "a little bit outside of my budget", but I've been testing DSD1024 on Holo Spring 2 DAC. It takes about twice as much power as DSD512. With -2s filters and/or with help of recent GPUs it is not too hard to reach though. I've done most of my testing and measurements with poly-sinc-ext2. Thank you. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
louisxiawei Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 6:24 AM, Em2016 said: Have they switched to XMOS for USB interface @Miska? Maybe invite @OE333 to give some insights. Price aside, SD3100HV possesses the most HQplayer solution integrity. asdf1000 1 Software: Roon, Tidal, HQplayer HQplayer PC: i9 7980XE, Titan Xp, RTX 3090; i9 9900K, Titan V DAC: Holo Audio MAY L2, T+A DAC8 DSD, exasound e12, iFi micro iDSD BL USB tweaks: Intona, Uptone (ISO) regen, LPS-1, LPS-1.2, Sbooster Vbus2, Curious cables, SUPRA Certified HiSpeed USB cable NAA: Logic CL100 powered by Uptone JS-2 AMP: Spectral DMC 30SV, Spectral DMA 300RS Speaker: Magico S3 MKII Rack: HRS SXR signature Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, louisxiawei said: Price aside, SD3100HV possesses the most HQplayer solution integrity. For sure. The others that support DSD512 with Roon on ethernet input can probably support NAA too... enough customers just need to ask for it. Kudos to T+A. Link to comment
Ben-M Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I was hunting around just yesterday and saw the new DAC on T+A's site. I didn't see the price, but saw it was listed under their top of the line product family, so I had my doubts... Maybe the 8 Series family will get something next year? I also emailed T+A again about the DAC 8 DSD lacking Linux support at DSD512 because I'm now facing a problem where if I want to buy one of the many new and capable streamers/renderers that work at DSD512, I also have to buy a new DAC FFS... Link to comment
gdpr Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 41 minutes ago, Ben-M said: I was hunting around just yesterday and saw the new DAC on T+A's site. I didn't see the price, but saw it was listed under their top of the line product family, so I had my doubts... Maybe the 8 Series family will get something next year? I also emailed T+A again about the DAC 8 DSD lacking Linux support at DSD512 because I'm now facing a problem where if I want to buy one of the many new and capable streamers/renderers that work at DSD512, I also have to buy a new DAC FFS... Please be aware that today there is not one single Dac with an Amanero USB input module is capable of playing DSD512 flawlessy with Linux. Link to comment
Ben-M Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I didn't know that 100% and I do know that the Amanero USB board in the DAC 8 DSD is an older model which makes configuring it much more difficult, but there has been progress and you can see that in the beta firmwares that can be flashed onto the DAC 8 DSD right now. And Amanero's persistence that it's possible is also reassuring, as they'd be the best SMEs to say whether there'll be light at the end of this tunnel or not. In having talked with both T+A about this on several occasions over the past 18 months and with Amanero, I been given the impression that there's not a concerted effort from T+A about this problem. Amanero may have some interest, but without support and ownership from T+A, the right elements aren't in play to drive a dependable outcome in a sensible timeframe. That's my opinion, but I have put some legwork into it vs. just firing off the cuff. Link to comment
gdpr Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ben-M said: I didn't know that 100% and I do know that the Amanero USB board in the DAC 8 DSD is an older model which makes configuring it much more difficult, but there has been progress and you can see that in the beta firmwares that can be flashed onto the DAC 8 DSD right now. And Amanero's persistence that it's possible is also reassuring, as they'd be the best SMEs to say whether there'll be light at the end of this tunnel or not. In having talked with both T+A about this on several occasions over the past 18 months and with Amanero, I been given the impression that there's not a concerted effort from T+A about this problem. Amanero may have some interest, but without support and ownership from T+A, the right elements aren't in play to drive a dependable outcome in a sensible timeframe. That's my opinion, but I have put some legwork into it vs. just firing off the cuff. I have been in regular contact with T+A myself , and I have been testing 4 different firmwares on my T+A 8 DSD dac during the last 4 months. Pinkfaun, manufacturer of my streamer, is also producing Dac's. They use Amanero also, and they have not yet achieved/received a DSD512 capable linux firmware. I have never been in contact with Amanero . If you can indicate me either a new Amanero USB module with cooresponding Linux firmware, or just new firmware that allows flawless DSD512 with Linux, I am eager to find out about it Dirk Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 Yes, SDV3100HV is a quite expensive DAC but its quality is really outstanding and by the way, the price per kilogram is even lower than that of the DAC8DSD 😉 Also the SDV3100HV is not a pure DAC - it is a „streaming DAC“ with a lot of sources (streamer, music services, FM, DAB+, Bluetooth, etc.) built in. Here some background information: When developing this DAC it was one idea to support direct ethernet streaming up to the maximum data rate that this DAC can handle (native DSD 48k*1024) but we were not sure if we could achieve this goal at the moment of product launch or if it would be an option for the future. The basic concept of this DAC included a GBit ethernet switch to route the ethernet to different endpoints within the SDV3100HV and some space for a compute module which should run Signalysts NAA software.... At the time of the first product announcements it was not clear if we would succeed in tranferring DSD streams at this bitrate and this is the reason why the NAA feature was not mentioned on the first feature list. Today I can confirm, that the NAA feature is on board - and it is working flawlessly even with the highest data rates. Besides the NAA there are two USB inputs for direct connection of PCs etc. Regarding the above speculations about the USB receiver used: SDV3100HV uses a proprietary USB receiver developed specially for this DAC. It is actually one of the very first USB receivers that supports the new UAC3 standard with all its features. This receiver is supported under Windows with a prorietary driver. To ensure Linux compatibility we have provided some patches to the Linux kernel and we hope that they will be included in mainline kernel very soon. The DSD section of this DAC uses an improved version of the T+A “True1Bit Converter“ with 32 converter elements per channel (DAC8DSD has 6 elements). This results in 3.1 Billion D/A conversions per second. At these rates extremely accurate clocking becomes VERY important and this is why SDV3100HV inludes an ultra precision clocking hardware... All analog processing is completely discrete (no OP-Amps) and uses T+A’s High Voltage technology. louisxiawei, emcdade, UELong and 1 other 4 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 4:55 PM, Ben-M said: I didn't know that 100% and I do know that the Amanero USB board in the DAC 8 DSD is an older model which makes configuring it much more difficult, but there has been progress and you can see that in the beta firmwares that can be flashed onto the DAC 8 DSD right now. And Amanero's persistence that it's possible is also reassuring, as they'd be the best SMEs to say whether there'll be light at the end of this tunnel or not. In having talked with both T+A about this on several occasions over the past 18 months and with Amanero, I been given the impression that there's not a concerted effort from T+A about this problem. Amanero may have some interest, but without support and ownership from T+A, the right elements aren't in play to drive a dependable outcome in a sensible timeframe. That's my opinion, but I have put some legwork into it vs. just firing off the cuff. ... even though a bit off topic in this thread: There is no "old" or "new" Amanero board - in fact there is only one Amanero USB receiver design. Most other companies just use the Amanero standard module. T+A decided to place the whole Amanero hardware directly on the DAC PCB to get shorter signal paths - otherwise everything is 100% compatible to the Amanero original design. Please believe me, we try what we can to push Amanero and we give all support that we can (like paying license fees, testing, testing testing, helping Amanero with hardware etc.) but we can not help with the development of the receivcer firmware itsself because it is closed source.... For the new SD/SDV3100HV devices with their DSD1024 capability (which is out of reach for the Amanero design) we decided to design our own UAC3 compliant proprietary USB receiver solution. This solution supports native DSD1024 for both Windows and LInux. The necessary Linux patches were made available by us and we hope that they will be included in mainline kernel soon. For the time beeing anybody interested in the patches please send me a PM. 4est, barrows and emcdade 2 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 23 hours ago, OE333 said: At the time of the first product announcements it was not clear if we would succeed in tranferring DSD streams at this bitrate and this is the reason why the NAA feature was not mentioned on the first feature list. Today I can confirm, that the NAA feature is on board - and it is working flawlessly even with the highest data rates. Hi, Is the D-to-A performance with DSD1024 via NAA, the same for all formats and sample rates? i.e. there is no performance compromise (measurable jitter on analogue outputs) with DSD1024 via ethernet input? Also, is NAA the only protocol supported on ethernet input? Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 Hi Em2016, I can confirm that jitter performance is the same for all formats and rates. The D/A converter is running completely on clock signals generated by the master clock oscillators located directly in the converter section. Currently only the NAA protocol is supported on the ethernet module but this could easily be changed. For ethernet there is a separate single board computer module and it would be possible to implement other protocols as well. During development I have also tested with roon bridge on that SBC and it also worked perfectly well but of course limited to DSD512 which is currently the maximum rate supported by roon. As we wanted to have the best performance we decided for Signalysts NAA as we think this gives the best quality and highest data rates currently available. But recommendations for other protocols are welcome... emcdade, ferenc, 4est and 1 other 2 1 1 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, OE333 said: I can confirm that jitter performance is the same for all formats and rates. Wow, this is quite the achievement. Congrats! Btw is this DSD1024 ethernet implementation ethernet-to-I2S or is it ethernet-to-USB-to-I2S? The SBC inside that you mention is performing like an ethernet-to-USB bridge? Or there is no USB involved with the ethernet NAA input? Link to comment
Popular Post OE333 Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 Thanks for the congratulations... All digital signals run through a central processor which does the upsampling in case of PCM signals and it processes DSD signals to distribute them to the 32 converter elements of the DSD DAC. This central processing unit has 3 USB inputs, one I2S for PCM and a DSD input. The synchronous signals coming for example from S/P-DIF inputs, from HDMI or from an external disc player use the I2S input. DSD Signals from our external PDT3100HV SACD transport use the DSD path and asynchronous sources are routed via the USB inputs. As ethernet is using asynchronuos transfer mode and thus uses one of the 3 USB inputs - the other two are available as external inputs. Below I have added a prototype photo of the central digital audio processor. The high frequency digital audio data coming out of this processor are sent via a HF connector on the back side of the PCB through the 1 cm thick aluminium base plate right to the D/A board which is mounted on the other side of the base plate. So the signal path between processor and D/A converter is extremely short and very well shielded - so no chance for noise induced signal degradation... asdf1000 and Solstice380 2 T+A Fellow (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021) (*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328) Link to comment
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