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boffore

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Hello guys,

 

I am slowly stepping into the audiophile work and wanted your opinion and advice regarding my potential HiFi setup. I am kind of a minimalist so I am trying to keep things as simple and as tidy as possible.

 

Half of my music is stored in iTunes (ALAC format) and the other half is played using subscriptions to both TIDAL and Qobuz. What I was planning on doing was (1) using my iPad mini as my main source of audio — I would store my iTunes songs on the iPad and access the rest of my music through the TIDAL and Qobuz apps. (2) I would then connect the iPad to an external DAC and (3) simply connect the DAC to my speakers.

 

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am lost — does this sound like a good setup? Will I be getting good quality sound? If yes, which DAC and speakers would you guys recommend? If no, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

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5 hours ago, boffore said:

Hello guys,

 

I am slowly stepping into the audiophile work and wanted your opinion and advice regarding my potential HiFi setup. I am kind of a minimalist so I am trying to keep things as simple and as tidy as possible.

 

Half of my music is stored in iTunes (ALAC format) and the other half is played using subscriptions to both TIDAL and Qobuz. What I was planning on doing was (1) using my iPad mini as my main source of audio — I would store my iTunes songs on the iPad and access the rest of my music through the TIDAL and Qobuz apps. (2) I would then connect the iPad to an external DAC and (3) simply connect the DAC to my speakers.

 

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am lost — does this sound like a good setup? Will I be getting good quality sound? If yes, which DAC and speakers would you guys recommend? If no, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

 

Welcome to the adventure! 

 

I would recommend two things, pick up a spare Mac or PC to use as a dedicated server, and put Roon Core on it with all your music files. That will give you a solid and reliable base to work from, even if it takes you years to build the “perfect” system or two. Your music will play on everything, including your iPad Mini, and sound great too. 

 

From there? There are no limits! 

 

Where do you want to go?

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Driving a DAC with an iPad is certainly possible, but it's not ideal.  The issue is the possible current draw from the DAC's USB port (or the USB port on a USB/SPDIF adapter) .  Because of that, you might need something like an Apple Camera Connection Kit Gen2 with external power.  Now that power, depending on the quality, may affect the signal integrity.  This is why some are recommending you just go forward with some kind of modest desktop system like a Mac Mini.

 

If you're really insistent that no desktop system be in the mix, seek out a DAC that can natively receive WiFi -> AND <- works with your iPad.  I was hoping to recommend something in the category but many are now out of production.  The iFi iDSD Pro can function as an Airplay target, but it's $2,500. 

 

One last bit of advice, avoid Bluetooth solutions as Apple mobile devices only support SBC and AAC codecs.

 

The journey can be as fun as the listening, so enjoy!

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11 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

Welcome to the adventure! 

 

I would recommend two things, pick up a spare Mac or PC to use as a dedicated server, and put Roon Core on it with all your music files. That will give you a solid and reliable base to work from, even if it takes you years to build the “perfect” system or two. Your music will play on everything, including your iPad Mini, and sound great too. 

 

From there? There are no limits! 

 

Where do you want to go?

Thank you for your answer! I had not even heard of the Roon Core before and will be looking into it!

 

I was actually considering using a PC instead of my iPad. In this case, PC+DAC+speakers should do the trick, right? I am just looking to get great sound out of my speakers since I'll be streaming 24 bit.

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2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Driving a DAC with an iPad is certainly possible, but it's not ideal.  The issue is the possible current draw from the DAC's USB port (or the USB port on a USB/SPDIF adapter) .  Because of that, you might need something like an Apple Camera Connection Kit Gen2 with external power.  Now that power, depending on the quality, may affect the signal integrity.  This is why some are recommending you just go forward with some kind of modest desktop system like a Mac Mini.

 

If you're really insistent that no desktop system be in the mix, seek out a DAC that can natively receive WiFi -> AND <- works with your iPad.  I was hoping to recommend something in the category but many are now out of production.  The iFi iDSD Pro can function as an Airplay target, but it's $2,500. 

 

One last bit of advice, avoid Bluetooth solutions as Apple mobile devices only support SBC and AAC codecs.

 

The journey can be as fun as the listening, so enjoy!

I'm actually quite willing to get a PC instead of using an iPad. I was just trying to get components as small as possible but a PC will do.

 

Same question than Paul R: will a PC+DAC+speakers do the trick? Do I need an amp in between?

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20 minutes ago, boffore said:

I'm actually quite willing to get a PC instead of using an iPad. I was just trying to get components as small as possible but a PC will do.

 

Same question than Paul R: will a PC+DAC+speakers do the trick? Do I need an amp in between?

You can get PC's with a small footprint such as the Intel NUC units. Install Roon core (highly recommended) on it but control it through your iPad, assuming you have a WiFi network. That way your PC can be tucked away and out of sight if you want. Roon can connect to your local music files as well as Tidal & Qobuz. Your local music files can be stored on the PC, an attached hard drive or a NAS unit.

 

As for an amp, yes, you will need an amp. It could be separate power amp, integrated amp or part of your speakers (powered speakers). The signal coming out of most DAC's are low powered and not enough to drive speakers.

 

You also need to decide how to control the volume. Roon might be able to do this ... I don't use Roon to control volume so not familiar with that. Some DAC's have volume control. Or you might need an integrated amp or pre-amp.

 

All that said, there are units that can serve as DAC, pre-amp & amp all rolled together. Lots of options, just depends on what you are looking to do and of course how much you want to spend.

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3 hours ago, boffore said:

Thank you for your answer! I had not even heard of the Roon Core before and will be looking into it!

 

I was actually considering using a PC instead of my iPad. In this case, PC+DAC+speakers should do the trick, right? I am just looking to get great sound out of my speakers since I'll be streaming 24 bit.

 

Yes, and there is a lot of good advice coming your way as well. :)

 

I would consider starting with something like this. (See attached.) 

 

 

-Paul 

 

 

Roon1.pdf

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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On 2/4/2019 at 5:26 PM, boffore said:

Hello guys,

 

I am slowly stepping into the audiophile work and wanted your opinion and advice regarding my potential HiFi setup. I am kind of a minimalist so I am trying to keep things as simple and as tidy as possible.

 

Half of my music is stored in iTunes (ALAC format) and the other half is played using subscriptions to both TIDAL and Qobuz. What I was planning on doing was (1) using my iPad mini as my main source of audio — I would store my iTunes songs on the iPad and access the rest of my music through the TIDAL and Qobuz apps. (2) I would then connect the iPad to an external DAC and (3) simply connect the DAC to my speakers.

 

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am lost — does this sound like a good setup? Will I be getting good quality sound? If yes, which DAC and speakers would you guys recommend? If no, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

Boffore,

 

Maybe we should start out a bit slower.  I approach things from a systems engineering viewpoint. I have been designing my own systems for 30 years.  For a while, I did it as a living!  

 

But before we even get to engineering we need the big picture.

 

Where will you be listening?

Who will you be listening with?

Do you have a target budget in mind?

Tell us a little bit about what you like to listen to.

What are your goals?  Broad strokes.

Are other people to be considered in this decision?  

 

As examples, I have two listening systems I have written about on this forum.  One on the Naim Unity Atom and another one on the Chord Mojo/Poly.  Both of these are dead simple.  The first is an integrated digital system to drive a pair of speakers.  The second is a pair of portable electronic devices to drive headphones.  Both can use an iPad as a control interface.  Chris the site owner did review of some Dynaudio self-contained speaker systems that appear to be great and form an even simpler systems design. 

 

Below are the links to the three reviews.  This may help you think about where you are going.  

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, boffore said:

I'm actually quite willing to get a PC instead of using an iPad. I was just trying to get components as small as possible but a PC will do.

 

Same question than Paul R: will a PC+DAC+speakers do the trick? Do I need an amp in between?

 

 

You will also need an amplifier to drive your speakers. There are literally millions of choices of amplifiers that you can choose from. I use an old Marantz because I like the warm sound, but you can get anything that suits your personal tastes.

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On 2/4/2019 at 5:26 PM, boffore said:

Hello guys,

 

I am slowly stepping into the audiophile work and wanted your opinion and advice regarding my potential HiFi setup. I am kind of a minimalist so I am trying to keep things as simple and as tidy as possible.

 

Half of my music is stored in iTunes (ALAC format) and the other half is played using subscriptions to both TIDAL and Qobuz. What I was planning on doing was (1) using my iPad mini as my main source of audio — I would store my iTunes songs on the iPad and access the rest of my music through the TIDAL and Qobuz apps. (2) I would then connect the iPad to an external DAC and (3) simply connect the DAC to my speakers.

 

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am lost — does this sound like a good setup? Will I be getting good quality sound? If yes, which DAC and speakers would you guys recommend? If no, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

See if this helps:

 

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10 hours ago, bobfa said:

Boffore,

 

Maybe we should start out a bit slower.  I approach things from a systems engineering viewpoint. I have been designing my own systems for 30 years.  For a while, I did it as a living!  

 

But before we even get to engineering we need the big picture.

 

Where will you be listening?

Who will you be listening with?

Do you have a target budget in mind?

Tell us a little bit about what you like to listen to.

What are your goals?  Broad strokes.

Are other people to be considered in this decision?  

 

As examples, I have two listening systems I have written about on this forum.  One on the Naim Unity Atom and another one on the Chord Mojo/Poly.  Both of these are dead simple.  The first is an integrated digital system to drive a pair of speakers.  The second is a pair of portable electronic devices to drive headphones.  Both can use an iPad as a control interface.  Chris the site owner did review of some Dynaudio self-contained speaker systems that appear to be great and form an even simpler systems design. 

 

Below are the links to the three reviews.  This may help you think about where you are going.  

 

 

 

 

 

Good advice, but maybe a bit over complicated. With digital audio, the first step is usually to come up with unified staotage of the digital files, whether that be local, cloud based, or some hybrid solution. Once you have that in place, you can build one or more systems that satisfy your listening pleasure. 

 

Remember, the OP is using an iPad to listen here at the present time. He may not want to give that up as he explores all the myriad choices open to him.  Nor indeed, should he have to. ;) 

 

Just my two cents. 

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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9 hours ago, Rocky Bennett said:

You will also need an amplifier to drive your speakers. 

But it doesn’t have to be a separate unit. Depending on your space, setting and budget, you might be very happy with powered speakers. You can get excellent sound quality for about $300/pair with units like JBL 305s, and there are better (albeit much more expensive) powered speakers in abundance.

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On 2/5/2019 at 12:26 AM, boffore said:

Hello guys,

 

I am slowly stepping into the audiophile work and wanted your opinion and advice regarding my potential HiFi setup. I am kind of a minimalist so I am trying to keep things as simple and as tidy as possible.

 

Half of my music is stored in iTunes (ALAC format) and the other half is played using subscriptions to both TIDAL and Qobuz. What I was planning on doing was (1) using my iPad mini as my main source of audio — I would store my iTunes songs on the iPad and access the rest of my music through the TIDAL and Qobuz apps. (2) I would then connect the iPad to an external DAC and (3) simply connect the DAC to my speakers.

 

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I am lost — does this sound like a good setup? Will I be getting good quality sound? If yes, which DAC and speakers would you guys recommend? If no, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

 

What DAC, amp and speakers do you have ?

 

The advice you got with a NUC, fanless version, install ROCK (Roon), is a very good start. That is a solution you don’t need to upgrade in future. 

Anything you can install Roon on as a start is OK if you have something laying around. 

 

To your DAC you need an endpoint. This could even be a Chromecast Audio.

An old broken but working Iphone with the CCK is a very good start. 

 

Other examples of cheap endpoints is Squeezebox. 

 

You control the endpoint from your iPad. 

 

Later you can move up to Sonore Rendu’s and add Uptone powers.

 

If you don’t have anything right now. Go active speakers. KEF wireless, with or without a sub. 

 

Can’t hardly be more minimalistic 😀

 

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17 hours ago, bobfa said:

Boffore,

 

Maybe we should start out a bit slower.  I approach things from a systems engineering viewpoint. I have been designing my own systems for 30 years.  For a while, I did it as a living!  

 

But before we even get to engineering we need the big picture.

 

Where will you be listening?

Who will you be listening with?

Do you have a target budget in mind?

Tell us a little bit about what you like to listen to.

What are your goals?  Broad strokes.

Are other people to be considered in this decision?  

 

As examples, I have two listening systems I have written about on this forum.  One on the Naim Unity Atom and another one on the Chord Mojo/Poly.  Both of these are dead simple.  The first is an integrated digital system to drive a pair of speakers.  The second is a pair of portable electronic devices to drive headphones.  Both can use an iPad as a control interface.  Chris the site owner did review of some Dynaudio self-contained speaker systems that appear to be great and form an even simpler systems design. 

 

Below are the links to the three reviews.  This may help you think about where you are going.  

 

 

 

 

I would like to set everything up in my living room in a dedicated spot. I will mainly be listening to music alone or with a few friends that enjoy the same genres. And I do listen to Hip-Hop, Electronic, Ethnic (anything Brazilian, Moroccan, Latin in general...). As far as budget goes, to be honest, I am first considering options — I don't mind paying extra for great sound @JDoyle

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1 hour ago, bluesman said:

But it doesn’t have to be a separate unit. Depending on your space, setting and budget, you might be very happy with powered speakers. You can get excellent sound quality for about $300/pair with units like JBL 305s, and there are better (albeit much more expensive) powered speakers in abundance.

Thanks! I am actually considering powered speakers and will look into those JBLs then 👌

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10 hours ago, Rocky Bennett said:

 

 

You will also need an amplifier to drive your speakers. There are literally millions of choices of amplifiers that you can choose from. I use an old Marantz because I like the warm sound, but you can get anything that suits your personal tastes.

You're right, I forgot about the amp but it's just because I was considering mainly powered speakers so far

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43 minutes ago, boffore said:

I would like to set everything up in my living room in a dedicated spot. I will mainly be listening to music alone or with a few friends that enjoy the same genres. And I do listen to Hip-Hop, Electronic, Ethnic (anything Brazilian, Moroccan, Latin in general...). As far as budget goes, to be honest, I am first considering options — I don't mind paying extra for great sound @JDoyle

Good luck with your project.  There are a lot of options out there for gear.  Listen to as many different systems as you can.  Remember the room has a lot of influence on the overall sound.  I honestly do not think there is a perfect system.  For me tinkering is fun but the music is the end goal!  Enjoy.

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@bobfa I just love your blog and think that what you’re doing is wonderful for this hobby.

For those of us that might not be as technically versed as most on this site, IMHO, simplifying the whole process is sorely needed and can only benefit the customer and the industry. I struggled for years to figure this all out and while I’ve made my purchasing decisions (and am happy with my choices), I’m still not an expert by any means. I honestly believe that I only persisted due to my love of music and sound quality, while most in my camp would have given up long ago.

 

@boffore I wish you luck and courage to continue with your pursuit of your audio nirvana... it can be a fun journey, please be patient.

IMHO, this is how you should proceed for a simple system that doesn’t involve a conventional computer.  But please, take everyone’s advice and try to make the best decision for yourself.

 

*Try to get a wired Ethernet connection into your music room for best results.

*Get a music server that’s has an internal SSD for your ripped files (e.g., Small Green Computer i5, about $1k, or Salk Streamer III,  like I     have, or if your budget allows, something like the Innous Zen Mk3 line of servers. Then run the Ethernet connection to it. If your ripped files are also available on your subscriptions to Tidal/Quobuz, then you can skip the internal storage. I rarely listen to my own old stuff anymore, and most of it is available via Tidal anyway. There is just so much new (and old, but new to me) music to explore and enjoy.

* invest In Roon, for what you’re doing music wise, it sounds like a no-brainer... you’ll love it for your music discovery... all from your iPad. Only $119.00 a year. Look for a server that has Roon Core installed (Roon Ready). It HAS to be a SERVER for the Roon Core though.

* If you’re looking at wireless speakers, you can skip the DAC/Amp search and go WiFi via your router to the active speakers like many have suggested. There are soooo many choices. Some nice ones have already been posted.

* For a purest audiophile approach, without any potential WiFi issues, run the server via USB to a DAC, like a Schitt, Mytek, (I went with a Benchmark DAC3), or one of the many dozens more, all at different price points.

*Then it’s either balanced or regular RCA cables  (Bluejeans, monster, or what ever you want to spend) to an amplifier. Also numerous to choose from ( I went with the matching Benchmark AHB2). Also many choices.

Then it’s the best speaker you can afford, (I own Salk Encores), but again, many many choices. Conveniently wired via a quality speaker cable.

*Consider used equipment... many audiophiles like to upgrade. Yes, it’s a risk, but most rarely get burned when purchasing used equipment.

 

Again, best of luck in your pursuit, don’t be shy to ask questions.

 

JD

 

 

 

 

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