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Mytek Stereo 192


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Unfortunately the USB 2.0 driver is not working even with your sequence (which is not the same as the developer of HQ Player pointed out a couple of days ago!). In the long run this manual method needs to be completely automated/configurable: it must be possible to have mixed playlists of DSD and PCM files. I have attached a pair of images which demonstrate problems with missing packets across the USB protocol as well as various other errors reported on the control panel.

 

When these error counts occur there can be missed sections of playback or it stops altogether (And the display oscillates). The dSd mode seems to slip back to 176.4 and the bit depth appears to drop when it is continuing to play. This is a dual core Atom, x64 Win7 Ultimate SKU SP1, 4GB device. No other USB devices on the hub, no IRQ Sharing with that USB root which the Mytek DAC is attached to, and the DSF/DFF files are either on a local SSD Drive or on a Linux based NAS Drive over Gigabit Ethernet.

 

With respect to the Firewire playback. I have noticed occaisional stream interruptions related to file buffering when the network is more heavily saturated or the NAS (dual GbE) is serving other tasks/devices concurrently. There are occaisional instances where the Firewire driver behaves similarly to the USB driver as above or an artifact when the track changes (?DFF files). The Firewire is running in the reccomended normal mode.

 

Music Interests: http://www.onebitaudio.com

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Unfortunately the USB 2.0 driver is not working even with your sequence (which is not the same as the developer of HQ Player pointed out a couple of days ago!).

 

Only difference I see is setting the 176.4 sampling rate, which shouldn't be needed. But since I don't yet have the Mytek hardware I cannot be sure.

 

In the long run this manual method needs to be completely automated/configurable: it must be possible to have mixed playlists of DSD and PCM files.

 

It is possible, but to keep the playback settings consistent with the output, it practically means that in mixed case DSD is converted to chosen PCM output rate. Vice versa is not supported yet (PCM getting converted to chosen DSD).

 

When playback is proceeding, HQPlayer will never stop the audio device. (changing sample rates or mode requires stopping and restarting the audio interface with WASAPI)

 

When these error counts occur there can be missed sections of playback or it stops altogether (And the display oscillates). The dSd mode seems to slip back to 176.4 and the bit depth appears to drop when it is continuing to play. This is a dual core Atom, x64 Win7 Ultimate SKU SP1, 4GB device.

 

Please use the "Buffer time" setting in the Settings dialog to increase buffer size to 50 ms or more. Most WASAPI drivers on Windows default to 10 ms which may be too small on slower hardware, especially with USB.

 

There's an instruction on my web page about the buffer size setting in case problems with USB playback are encountered. It applies to any USB audio device, regardless of brand/model.

 

With respect to the Firewire playback. I have noticed occaisional stream interruptions related to file buffering when the network is more heavily saturated or the NAS (dual GbE) is serving other tasks/devices concurrently.

 

In case the network activity is due to other computers than the one used for playback, the only way to improve this is to use QoS on the network and NAS.

 

If the network activity is due to other activities on the playback machine, then above device buffer size increase may help. GigE can saturate interrupt handling capability of slower processors when normal ethernet MTU size (1500 bytes) is used. Fix for that is to use jumbo-frames, such as 4096 bytes on the ethernet.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Adding the dCS spec to all the players will take time and full support has issues.

 

I have c code that will take the dsdiff file and add the dCS markers per their spec in packed pcm. The code has been reviewed by dCS and should work. I also have a way to put the data into other formats like flac. I propose a utility that takes the dsdiff file and packs the data per the dCS spec into a flac file. Now any player can see and stream the file as pcm to the receiving dac with the decoder. This allows you to select the file at will and the player has access to the embedded data while preserving the original dsd information for playback at the dac....

 

Any comments are welcomed!

 

Jesus R

 

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What...ANY player? Any DAC? Now THAT really would be a miracle!

 

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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We have positively tested drivers on both platforms but of course with limited amount of hardware. It's still possible some Win hardware configurations need to be fine tuned this way or another.

 

A suggestion to posters on this thread: please do not post your individual driver issues- instead please email Mytek directly and we will try to guide you through.

 

Otherwise readers will get further confused about something they should not have been. I presume everybody here would prefer to get clearly spelled out information, rather than an avalanche of words hard to decipher.

 

I'll be happy to assist with individual case technical help outside this list.

 

Pls email highend/aattttt/mytekdigital.com

 

Best Regards Michal, Mytek New York

 

 

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Michal. I'm actually interested in using your 8x192 DAC for audiophile playback under OSX.

 

So I've emailed you some questions!

 

Thanks.

 

Wap

 

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Increasing the buffer value on Signalyst HQ Desktop (I have it set to 250ms, CPU utilization is around 7% avg total system) permits dSd over USB on my system no problems. Its just as impressive sonically as over Firewire. We set Michal the task of getting DSD playback up and running by the end of the month and he has achieved it. Bravo. Consumer affordable, professional grade no compromise playback of DSD audio. I feel like a pig in sh*t.

 

Once you have tasted of the fruits of native DSD recordings via computer you might lose your appetite for PCM (its seriously good at PCM playback however) as well as not putting up with DSD-> PCM transcoding anymore and you might now grumble about your murky SACD laser turntable playback. I hope he sells truck loads of these things and that he seriously considers a multichannel version, that would be a likely winner as well.

 

 

 

Music Interests: http://www.onebitaudio.com

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I thought there already was a multichannel version :)

 

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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:)

 

 

 

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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The current beta release of Jriver Media Centre 17 has support for DSD streaming over ASIO drivers i.e native playback.Not along ago the Jriver team had indicated that they were going to stick with PCM transcoding because of the support that gives to other DSP processing like room correction, pseudo surround and so on. Thats changed now. They have not implemented the dCs packing scheme and may not. Im planning on asking them. It, the beta, is known to work with the Playback Designs DAC over ASIO USB. However the current implementation of the Mytek USB Asio driver does not work with JRiver or rather I can't make it work.

 

The Mytek Firewire ASIO Driver does not yet appear to have DSD support. This means that Jriver cannot currently be used to play native DSD. The ASIO implementation is also preventing the Foobar 2000 Sacddecoder plugin from working in native ASIO mode although that is not of long term interest to me.

 

Michal has already indicated that "What need to be perfected is the Win7 ASIO DSD driver, which is really more relevant for pro audio applications". While this is kind of true, ASIO 2.x is a more or less device independent standard and in theory much more widely supported than the recently proposed dCs packing method. Hats off to the Signalyst team for supporting DSD playback with the Mytek. However that software is not directly comparable to Jriver Media Centre in terms of the management (playback, ripping, tagging, datbase management, sorting, genres, touchscreen, remote control etc etc) of really large (> 25 K files, > 2 K albums )music collections of mixed media types.

 

So a couple of questions then for Michal and which will be of general interest to other Mytek users and potential purchasers anticipating using Jriver with Mytek.

 

What is the anticipated time frame for a working/perfected implementation of the USB or Firewire ASIO driver that allows native DSD playback?

 

Playback Designs seem to have loaned some gear to the Jriver team to get DSD over ASIO working. Is Mytek in a position to do that as well.?

 

Has Jriver been approached or responded to a proposition about the dCs packing scheme as an alternate to Mytek working on an ASIO driver?

 

Is there anything known about the channel offset setting in Jriver which affects the use of the Mytek USB ASIO driver with Jriver Media Center.? See the attached error reported by Jriver which appears to be possibly related.

 

Can the Mytek ASio drivers for their other DA converters used in pro audio not be quickly/easily modified to work with the Stereo Mytek?

 

I've attached the output of an ASIO utility called ASIODump which shows the capabilities of the two supplied Mytek ASIO drivers. Can't confirm quality of this interrogation tool as it reports NoPCM format support on the Firewire driver but that is not correct. I used it to "confirm" DSD suppport in the driver.

 

 

 

 

Music Interests: http://www.onebitaudio.com

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Can't confirm quality of this interrogation tool as it reports NoPCM format support on the Firewire driver but that is not correct. I used it to "confirm" DSD suppport in the driver.

 

That's normal and it's not a problem with the tool. With most drivers that don't support DSD it would report no PCM support either. This is because that's about an API extension usually not supported unless needed.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Since both methods (dCS over PCM and ASIO) are valid for Windows I would except that it'd make sense for all high end software players to include support for both to cover as many DACs as possible. I'm pretty sure JR is aware of the subject.

 

As for our ASIO, we are testing its DSD support and addressing the compatibility- the support is there already but few things need to be repackaged- this make take few weeks. FWIW initially only USB driver will be able to do ASIO DSD.

 

Best Regards, Michal, Mytek New York

 

 

 

 

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I'll answer details through email and will post just general information here. While Mytek Stereo192-DSD-DAC has (as name implies) just stereo output we do make a professional mastering unit called 8X192 ADDA. The unit has industrial packaging, but interior is really high end- there are 8 DACs that can be used for multichannel playback. Someone compared its playback quality earlier in this thread favorably to Wadia.

 

This unit was connected to Sony DSD Sonoma system at the ATC Pink Floyd demo room at RMAF2011 (at Hyatt) and if you have heard Dark Side of the Moon there on day 2 and 3 you were hearing it via Mytek 8X192ADDA.

 

So... if one wanted to play surround 5.1 or 7.1 PCM and DSD files it WILL be possible with this unit. We are currently working on revamping its firmware to allow DSD playback via USB and FW. It's a major upgrade to firmware that we hope to complete by the end of the year. Similarly software player developers will need to add multichannel support to their players.

 

Best Regards, Michal, Mytek New York

 

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Similarly software player developers will need to add multichannel support to their players.

 

Already done... :)

 

Even though multichannel is not tested with direct DSD because I don't have such hardware yet. Speaker distance and level settings only work through PCM conversion, but support for those without conversion is coming later.

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Does this mean I can plug a Mytek 8x192 with it's USB card into a computer right now and play stereo DSD track's untouched (native) using your software?

PC and Linux?

 

Unreal !!!!

 

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Does this mean I can plug a Mytek 8x192 with it's USB card into a computer right now and play stereo DSD track's untouched (native) using your software?

 

Yes, if it supports either the dCS' PCM-packed method or the native ASIO DSD. With ASIO there's a bit more flexibility in mapping the channels.

 

For the next version I will probably add similar capability for direct playback already supported for the PCM-conversion that things like 3.1 or 4.0 channel material is rearranged to match standard 5.1 channel layout (input side channel remapping).

 

PC and Linux?

 

Yes. On Linux side it naturally requires interface that has Linux drivers and support for one the three output methods...

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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wooha there. Not so fast...you are an incredible guy, but sometimes what you say is way over mere mortals heads! .."Yes, if it supports either the dCS' PCM-packed method or the native ASIO DSD. With ASIO there's a bit more flexibility in mapping the channels."

 

..but in noob speak..the "mapping of the channels" you speak of is simply done by changing some settings within your software. Correct? I could do this in the software? Correct?

 

As you can guess..I'm planning and thinking ahead (in light of what Michal has said above..)...that is to use his 8x192 in DSD stereo mode (until multichannel DSD over USB is well and truly sorted), it's just a simple tweek of your software..

 

Have I got this right?

 

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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the "mapping of the channels" you speak of is simply done by changing some settings within your software. Correct? I could do this in the software? Correct?

 

Yep, it's a matrix to define that input channel X goes to output channel Y. It is optional functionality of the ASIO backend. It is sort of virtual patchbay with channel labels. By default input channel 1 (in a file) goes to output channel 1.

 

I'm planning and thinking ahead (in light of what Michal has said above..)...that is to use his 8x192 in DSD stereo mode (until multichannel DSD over USB is well and truly sorted), it's just a simple tweek of your software..

 

For stereo use it is straightforward, because it doesn't have strange channel arrangements.

 

For multichannel direct DSD output some improvements are coming to ease up dealing with files that are not stereo nor 5.1, but something else.

 

Have I got this right?

 

I think so.. :)

 

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Mytek uses the Rigisystems USBPal interface. There has been some speculation as to whether this interface actually is asynchronous, has anyone checked with the Mac utility, USB Prober?

 

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Rigisystems USBPal interface. There has been some speculation as to whether this interface actually is asynchronous, has anyone checked with the Mac utility, USB Prober?

 

You cannot get anything practical out of it, because it's completely proprietary interface like M2Tech hiFace.

 

bDeviceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class

bDeviceSubClass 0

bDeviceProtocol 0

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Cypress Semiconductor CY7C68013A

http://www.cypress.com/?mpn=CY7C68013A-100AXC

 

Has two FPGA Devices Altera Cyclone III, and Xilinx Spartan XC3100SE.One probably manages the clock networks and maybe the UI and the other the data streams.

 

The IC's on the analog side and volume control etc have had their surfaces sanded presumably to prevent reverse engineering.

 

Its a well put together box of tricks.

 

Music Interests: http://www.onebitaudio.com

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