Mytek Stereo 192

[ljames]

Can someone already have the actual unit comments on DSD playing? Does it support Foobar Asio bit-perfect output?

 

 

[pacwin]

The only Foobar plugin that I know that is supposed to support ASIO 2.x DSD drivers, the one for SACD ISO's (foo_input_sacd), does not appear to work at the moment (testing with the 0.3.14 version 19th October). Presumably because they havent been able to test it with real hardware. The Foobar plugin may however benefit from the 1.1 firmware when its released. Whats needed for Foobar is an uncompressed DSD file plugin and such doesn't yet exist. The SACD ISO player could easily be extended to do that however, and its undergoing rapid revision/evolution at the moment so who knows. Its also probably a limitation of the current Mytek Firmware.

 

[pacwin]

The V1.10 firmware has been released, we will try and do some testing and report back in a day or so.

 

[Synfreak]

Thanks pacwin for the info!

 

As I have returned the unit I got for testing, I cannot participate on this update, and thats why I hope there will others to test for DSD playback - be it via Foobar (with the SACD plugin) or via HQPlayer (Miska?).

 

I will get a Pre-amp version (with silver faceplate) ASAP, but this might take a while ...

 

Thanks Michal + pacwin

 

Greetz

Harald

 

[pacwin]

 

Harald, what did you think of the analog performance of the Mytek?

 

[ljames]

Eagerly waiting the DSD playing result. I am not sure if I should keep the order or just cancel the order for now and wait longer until everything settle down. I have no need for another 24bit/192K DAC, I just want a reasonable priced DSD DAC. Thanks to all the posters with great info.

 

 

 

[ted_b]

with Michal while he was at AES. I look forward to trying my growing collection of DSDIFF.

 

Anyone know the remote codes for volume?

 

[Synfreak]

Hi pacwin!

 

I had a "Studio" modell here for the first "tests", so I can not comment on the pre-amp functions (and "aural imprint" ... ) of the other units/models with build-in preamp section (analogue input).

 

I only had some short listening sessions to point out if the Mytek will suit my needs (and tastes), and as far as I can say, there was nothing to be missed - and nothing "popped out" at me too.

 

The only point where I "think" (!) that it might be a sonic fingerprint is the kind of "smoothness" and overal balance this DAC showed. If this really is a (kind of) fingerprint, I had to say, that I could live with that

 

Some short conclussions, based on my setup (see below):

 

Pros:

- solidly build (but, so to speak, more aimed at Studio/Pro use)

 

- easy operation (if you got how to use the menu ..., which shouldn't be a problem)

 

- quite good headphone output (but I currently only have my trusted AKG K-500 to check for this)

 

- USB driver worked (almost - see below) without hickups or problems. AND (!) it doesn't use to much CPU power, which might be important for seamless and quiet computer operation.

- Smooth (analogue) volume control

 

Cons:

- The USB driver doesn't like playlists with mixed samplingrates. The playback stopped when starting a new track (with different SR), or, if started manually, it takes about a second until the unit "de-mutes" its output (or DAC section?).

 

- Switching the unit on (or off), one will notice a "pop / click" sound.

Thats for the main outs as for the headphone output, and it doesn't matter how the analogue pre-amp volume is setted.

 

Considering the price and the capability to play native DSD files (soon ...), this DAC / headphone amp / pre-amp combo is a steal ...

 

(and I had the Weiss DAC 202 here for testing last year ... )

 

Cheers

Harald

 

 

Setup used:

DELL VOSTRO 1720 Laptop (Core2Duo T6670 2x2,2GHZ, 3GB RAM, WIN7ProSP1), WIFI and Bluetooth disabled, music-library HD connected via USB

Foobar 2000 (1.1.8) with ASIO plugin

"standard" 4m USB cable

ME Geithain RL 922 powered speakers

AKG K-500 headphone

 

 

[pacwin]

Unfortunately the v1.10 firmware doesn't seem to have moved us ahead if at all. It may be better to not update to that version. It does seem to be problematic using both the firewire and USB interfaces at the same time. In practice I would not bother with firewire in day to day usage but in order to update the firmware a firewire connection is required. It seems that the best order of installation is Firewire then USB. Be that as it may it took a lot of manual removal of registry entries, manual removal of USB drivers and install of Firewire just to get to the firmware update.Another annoyance is that the drivers are not certified/qualified and have to be forced to install/reinstall/update

 

There are effectively two ASIO drivers installed one for Firewire "ASIO Mytek" and one for USB "Mytek STEREO192-DSD DAC ASIO". Now HQ Player Desktop Player (2.7.2) in ASIO mode can now (it couldnt prior to this version) enumerate those ASIO drivers but I'm damned if I can it to play anything over either USB or Firewire and it just sulks with DSD files. JRiver and Foobar on the other hand do not enumerate the USB ASIO driver only the Firewire one (the Firewire one may need to be removed havent got that far) and so havent been able to do any testing with that.

 

Currently as I write with the Firewire drivers all looking installed the Firewire Mytek DICE utility cannot see the DAC, so even though the drivers enumerate there is no hardware connection/transport to the DAC so really we have gone backwards with this new firmware to the point where I have to now revert to another DAC if I want actual music. PCM over firewire was working after the firmware update before the USB drivers were installed but did not seem as good as PCM over USB and after 20 minutes of playback (176/24)it degenerated into a smeared and disconnected mess no longer decoding human music.

 

My plan is to see if I can roll back to the earlier firmware and restore PCM playback.

 

Harald's comments on the analog aspect of the DAC mirror my own. It is neutral and transparent and appears to have no sonic signature of its own and it lets the underlying recording shine or in some cases not. The dynamics of the recordings are let through unchanged and listening to the DAC for the last couple of weeks I've been considering applying replay gain to all my digital files because I have never had to adjust or finetune the amplifier volume so much with other DAC's.

 

[Miska]

Now HQ Player Desktop Player (2.7.2) in ASIO mode can now (it couldnt prior to this version) enumerate those ASIO drivers but I'm damned if I can it to play anything over either USB or Firewire and it just sulks with DSD files.

 

With latest firmware, AFAIK, following should apply, hopefully Mytek could confirm:

 

- DSDIFF/DSF playback should work when using USB ASIO driver and direct playback mode is set to "Native / none".

- It should work with Firewire driver in WASAPI mode when direct playback mode is set to "0xAA marker" (dCS spec).

 

For the direct mode settings see "DSDIFF/DSF settings" in File-menu.

 

HQPlayer doesn't currently support those "PCM-packed" modes with ASIO backend because ASIO in itself supports native DSD. But if someone feels that it would be still useful, I can consider adding that support.

 

There's also a quickstart guide.

 

 

[mytek]

Few hrs ago we have uploaded 1.2 firmware and new FW drivers which fix a name conflict in windows (only) that sometimes created an issue in Win 7 when both USB2.0 and FW were installed (some registries were named the same "mytek" and one drvr was overriding another one support files). This was never an issue on Mac, just windows. The new driver also has the name tags organized to represent connected Mytek device properly (both drivers support not only stereo192-DSD-DAC but also other Mytek unit the 8X192 ADDA). I can confirm that both FW and USB drivers on both platforms (OSX10.6-10.7 and Win 7) work fine and allow for automatic switching of sample rates alright. We tested this with number of software packages, (such as Pure Music, Audirvana for Mac, Foobar, HQ Signalyst, JRMusic for Win) and they do work just fine play PCM and switch FS on the fly and at least 2 of them play DSD using dCS method. When playlist switches to DSD file you will see the dac display switch from for example "176.4" to "dSd". 64xDSD works, 128xDSD is not yet implemented, we are working with playback software developers on making this available asap. Signalyst for win7 plays with dsd out of the box (you may want to try it on 64bit win7- it seems more solid this way) while Mac users should contact ChannlD.com support to get a copy of Pure Music which includes Mytek in the list of approved devices (V1.83beta). Next public release of PM download will include Mytek. We will be also talking to other software developers who we know do work on this (such as JR) to include Mytek asap.

 

Thanks for comments on sound quality. This is consistent with our aim- transparency. Mytek has 20 years experience in designing accurate and transparent converters for mastering applications (where the entire AD>DA chain is compared to straight wire). This is not euphonic converter- good recordings will shine, while bad might have their faults exposed.

 

We are back at our offices after very dynamic and successful RMAF Show last week and another - the AES Show in NY that ended yesterday. I hope to monitor this list and be more responsive, so pls post you QQ and I'll try to address them

 

Best Regards, Michal, Mytek New York

 

 

 

 

[ted_b]

and look forward to getting the unit asap.

 

[CKKeung]

Hi Michal,

 

Congratulation for your success at RMAF & AES.

 

A few audiophile friends of mine in Hong Kong that have pre-ordered the Stereo 192 via HK dealers have not got them yet. When will the stock arrive at HK?

If I want to buy one too, shall I buy it via dealers in HK or directly at your webshop?

 

Also, can the Stereo 192 be used wth Linux CAS desktops and will there be a Linux driver in future?

 

Many thanks!

 

[pacwin]

Version 1.2 Firmware definitely makes progress. Using Signalyst HQ Desktop IN WASAPI mode and feeding it dCs packed data over Firewire we can achieve playback of DSD data and mighty fine it sounds as well. Native DSD audibly out performs any PCM conversion of DSD data (Test data based on Chihiro Yamanaka's Reminisces SHM-SACD from Verve in Japan (2011) a sonic masterpiece) .

 

Still its not perfect. There were a few audible glitches when the DAC decided to toggle display from dSd to 176.4. On one track it eventually righted itself back to dSd while on another it hung with the display oscillating between the two display texts but not producing audio. That required software shutdown and hardware reset of the DAC. It's also possible to provoke this oscillating display by using WASAPI->USB->oxAA marker mode but no sound eventuates.

 

But when its working its absolutely glorious. Hands down leaves a plastic SACD disc on a laser turntable far behind.

 

On the other hand the ASIO-USB-native route using HQ Desktop in Asio mode with native DSD mode selected wasn't successful at all. The audio player couldn't coordinate with the DAC and generate music.

 

No problem with PCM data with new firmware. The Concierto de Aranjuez track on the Bob Belden produced Miles Espanol- New Skecthes of Spain (HD Tracks, 88.2/24) just awe inspiring over Firewire.

 

I am going to experiment with Pure Music on dual processor G5 Mac/16GB I have lying around doing nothing.If anybody has the beta software with the Mytek support handy, PM me.

 

[ted_b]

Although I have the beta software for PM/Mytek compatibility I'd rather not distribute it without Rob's ok (it is beta after all). Send Rob an email at channld-at-mac-dot-com and I'm sure he'll forward you a copy.

 

Edit: Relooking your comment, didn't realize you are talking G5. Doing native DSD is NOT supported on a G5 cuz a) that OS may not even handle 24/176k which is required for dCS solution, and b) Rob hasn't implemented pure DSD on that chip, only Intel for now. DSD-to-PCM on fly may work, but you don't need beta PM for that, nor is that your intent.

 

[mytek]

Q "When will the stock arrive at HK?"

 

Stereo192-DSD-DAC albeit new has become extremely popular and will remain backordered for a couple of months as we ramp up production. Typical wait if ordered today, will be 3-4 weeks.

 

We ship product in order we receive payments, regardless of it's a dealer or customer of online store.

 

I believe we will be shipping to Hong Kong dealer (Tsangfook) this week.

 

Hope this helps. Regards, M

 

[pacwin]

 

There are other limitations. the USBPAL implementation used by Mytek is x64 mac binaries and not PowerPC or dual mode (although nothing indicating this restriction on the Rigisystems site for their SDK's) and the control panel does not therefore execute nor do the drivers install. On the other hand the Mytek DICE drivers for firewire do install fine on Power PC and PCM was being passed out at 24/192 to the DAC quite happily usng Pure Music. I thought the sound a bit congested and smeared however.

 

When it came time to playback DSD files, albeit transcoded to PCM, this reliably crashed the Mac with a black screen, although the DAC did switch rate to what ever was selected for DSD. Most Mac users will want to consider more current hardware.

 

[orgel]

pacwin wrote:

 

"On the other hand the Mytek DICE drivers for firewire do install fine on Power PC and PCM was being passed out at 24/192 to the DAC quite happily usng Pure Music. I thought the sound a bit congested and smeared however."

 

Are you saying you think the USB connection to the DAC sounds better than the FW connection in general, or does this observation just apply to trying to run the Mytek from the G5?

 

I ask because I'm seriously considering purchasing this DAC, which I'd hook up to my 2011 Mac mini, and I was thinking FireWire would be the way to go. Had the cable picked out and everything.

 

--David

 

[mytek]

This might be correct. We, Mytek, are a small Company and we have decided that in order to stay realistic and support customers efficiently we will be only (for the moment) supporting TWO platforms: Win7 and MacOSX Intel. As we go along we will support only the two last revisions of each of these systems which as of today means Win7-32 and Win7-64 and OSX 10.6 and 10.7. This does not mean the system will not work with other ver of OS's, or Linux for that matter, but with these you'd be on your own, we do not have capacity to sort all this out.

 

At some point we will be listing "recommended" configurations once we get a better sense what is stable and reliable.

 

In other words if you want stable DSD playback, pls start with upgrading your computers.

 

I'm curious about your comment about sound with G5. This is compared to what? Intel Mac? another converter? pls explain the setup and how the comparison was done.

 

Best Regards, Michal, Mytek New York

 

 

[mytek]

Q: "I am going to experiment with Pure Music on dual processor G5 Mac/16GB I have lying around doing nothing.If anybody has the beta software with the Mytek support handy, PM me."

 

DSD over PCM pipeline does not work with G5. G5 uses big endian as opposed to little endian in Intel for which Rob at Channl B wrote the plug.

 

Regards, Michal, Mytek New York

 

 

 

[ljames]

I'd suggest that you may consider make the driver open source.

There are lots of software developers are willing to contribute. Your company sells more hardware by this way I guess.

Like how Logitech does with their Squeezebox, it's good that I can customize some of it's server feature to suit my needs when I have some spare time.

 

 

 

By the way, I wonder when I will receive mine? Order placed 2 weeks ago, still nothing...

 

[pacwin]

For potential Mytek users, the mac G5 comments are just a bit of fun and nmessing around while software developers sort out how to make the Mytek work on Windows. All I can tell you is that after about three weeks of listening the Mytek DSD Dac is really opening up. Sound stage is taller deeper wider and not as recessed as before. Its definitely a winner. I feel there is a possible edge to the firewire implementation but thats likely because I can't at the moment play DSD via USB drivers so Im favouring that method. The Mytek Firewire implementation looks very robust. At the least it is comparable alternative to USB. No downside possible upside. Cant quantify it.

 

I think if you are a Mac user that you cant expect it to be backward compatible with unsupported out of production technologies like the G5 but maybe manufacturers need to be more explicit about what is and what isnt supported. I'm betting on the Jriver team coming out with native DSD playback in their next release since they have indicated its on the cards. If not then I would consider an Intel based Mac. My comments about the sound quality should be taken with a grain of salt. It is not based on any extensive listening or comparison its simply an impression. Put it this way there was no compelling reason to persevere with or switch to the G5.It no way implies what you might hear with a modern mac and its not saying OS X is better than windows.

 

This Mytek device should also be capable of higher sample rate PCM (up to 384/32). I would be interested if Michal has plans to open up this possibility via firmware once it settles down.

 

[mytek]

Q "My comments about the sound quality should be taken with a grain of salt."

 

I'm still trying to understand what are you comparing to what. Were you saying in your previous post USB interface on Mac G5 sounds different than FW? It'd be great if you could reiterate your experience with this step by step.

 

Q "while software developers sort out how to make the Mytek work on Windows"

 

If you are referring to wasapi drivers for Win7, both FW and USB2.0 work just fine for both PCM and DSD if software (at the moment just signalyst HQ player) supports dCS DSD over USB method. (pls see my subsequent post). What need to be perfected is the Win7 ASIO DSD driver, which is really more relevant for pro audio applications.

 

Q: "his Mytek device should also be capable of higher sample rate PCM (up to 384/32)."

 

Sure, point taken, we'll see.

 

Thanks for comments about sound- break in does help.

 

best Regards, Michal, Mytek New York

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mytek]

In Win7 (both 32 and 64) dCs "DSD over USB PCM pipeline" method works with bothUSB2 and Firewire.

 

To play 64xDSD (128xDSD does not work yet as of today) with Signalyst HQ Player pls follow these steps:

 

a) With USB2.0:

 

1) Open "wasapi" (not ASIO) HQ Player version

2) set the sample rate to 176.4 in the Mytek USBPAL driver control panel. Also set the buffer size to Small or Large before opening HQPlayer.

3) in HQ Player set the DSD option to 0xAA

4)Play DSD files, the Mytek DAC (with USB2.0 in selected) should show "dSd" on its display and you should hear native DSD

 

b) With FW:

 

1) Open "wasapi" (not ASIO) HQ Player version

2) set the sample rate to 176.4 in the Mytek DICE FW driver control panel.

3) in HQ Player set the DSD option to 0xAA

4)Play DSD files, the Mytek DAC (with USB2.0 in selected) should show "dSd" on its display and you should hear native DSD

 

Hope this helps. Regards Michal, Mytek new York

 

 

 

 

[mytek]

We license drivers from two Companies, FW from TC Electronics and USB from Rigisystems. They make their living selling these, it's unlikely they will open them any time soon. Thus said, I think there was an attempt in Linux community to deliver a driver for TC Dice chip for FW that we are using in this DAC. If there is one it could work.

 

As for delivery, this DAC is very popular and has been sold out, there is a 4 week backorder wait on current orders.

 

Pls email us directly outside the list for details on your order.

 

Thx Michal, Mytek New York