What's the consensus on ethernet cables?

[barrows]

18 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Fair enough but audiophile manufacturers simply don't have the resources to improve on what is available from Belden.  More likely AudioQuest etc simply matches Belden or another Ethernet cable with selected connectors.

Actually, you are (partly) incorrect.  I have some knowledge of the manufacturing resources available to AudioQuest.  They indeed spec their own cable designs (the actual wire) and have it constructed to their specification by their manufacturer.  This is one of the reasons for the high cost, as we can both imagine the economy of scale here his not very high for 4 nines silver Ethernet cabling.  Although at this point I cannot disagree that their cabling likely offers no improvement in audio performance over the best offerings from Belden. 

[mav52]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Although I have not heard any explanation of "audiophile Ethernet cables" as to what/how they might improve sonic performance, I am not ready to throw reviewers (or even dealers and manufacturers) under the bus like this and suggest a conspiracy.  Reviewers have a very difficult job: to detect and report on differences, and they are subject to biases just like anyone else-I do not think they are deliberately lying about what they "hear".

I think manufacturers are responding to a demand for "better" cabling and are applying experience and techniques that have worked on other cables to their Ethernet cable lines, making what they probably believe is a "better" cable in terms of materials and some other qualities-but the fact that they appear to offer no plausible reason why such a cable would offer better performance for Ethernet audio transmission is bothersome to a technically minded person such as myself.

 

I am not a cable "denier" in general by any means.  I purchase and use high end cables (see signature) in my system, and my system sounds better because of them, just not Ethernet cables.  Now I am transitioning to optical Ethernet distribution, very psyched about this, and am using Corning Clear Curve OM3 at first.

 

Fair enough,   I agree manufactures are responding to a demand for Ethernet,  not sure if its better, but a cable that's "suits the audiophile " status" with pretty jackets and high end boxes to put the cable in when its not in use.   I've had the Diamond and Nordost and Cardis Clear in my system and I always went back to the Blue Jean Cable, only because the sound was the same and the cable was made as good if not better, of course it wasn;t as pretty and didn't come with a pretty box. :) .

Now optical sounds very interesting.

[jabbr]

3 minutes ago, barrows said:

Actually, you are (partly) incorrect.  I have some knowledge of the manufacturing resources available to AudioQuest.  They indeed spec their own cable designs (the actual wire) and have it constructed to their specification by their manufacturer.  This is one of the reasons for the high cost, as we can both imagine the economy of scale here his not very high for 4 nines silver Ethernet cabling.  Although at this point I cannot disagree that their cabling likely offers no improvement in audio performance over the best offerings from Belden. 

 

Wow, just wait till they come out with fiberoptic cables made at a small Vermont art glass shop 😂

 

But seriously I guess the Belden bonded pair patent expired in ?2014 so perhaps they have a generic bonding technology in use -- again and let me stress that at 10Ghz the constant impedance of the cable, from transmitter to connector, across the arbitrary turns and bends in the cable, to the connector and finally the receiver are far far far more electrically critical than any differences in the copper or silver, or dielectric effects of the wires themselves (assuming reasonable choices).

 

Hey I have an idea! Let's get Simon Pearce to produce a line of glass cables ... it would be fun, nice restaurant, close to skiing 😎

[barrows]

26 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Wow, just wait till they come out with fiberoptic cables made at a small Vermont art glass shop 😂

 

But seriously I guess the Belden bonded pair patent expired in ?2014 so perhaps they have a generic bonding technology in use -- again and let me stress that at 10Ghz the constant impedance of the cable, from transmitter to connector, across the arbitrary turns and bends in the cable, to the connector and finally the receiver are far far far more electrically critical than any differences in the copper or silver, or dielectric effects of the wires themselves (assuming reasonable choices).

 

Hey I have an idea! Let's get Simon Pearce to produce a line of glass cables ... it would be fun, nice restaurant, close to skiing 😎

To be clear, I have no disagreement with your thoughts on the actual performance of the cables!  I use Blue Jeans CAT 6A using Belden bonded pair cabling.  I just wanted to get the facts straight RE: what AudioQuest can make, and that they are not just offering a standard bulk cable with a pretty jacket and connectors.

 

Simon Pearce, hand drawn glass cables, hahaha!  I had a nice meal at that restaurant with my GF at the time who lived in VT. 

[jabbr]

2 minutes ago, barrows said:

 I just wanted to get the facts straight RE: what AudioQuest can make, and that they are not just offering a standard bulk cable with a pretty jacket and connectors.

 

Yes and I 'm not claiming that AQ cables are poorly constructed or have poor performance (I don't know at all).

 

Thinking more about the pics @marce posted (or linked to) about the so-called "audiophile" switch which has a single wire meandering from the clock to the board etc. etc. and I've seen other photos of external so-called audiophile clocks where the power supply lines run right along the clock output etc etc . essentially a mess.

 

So we agree that good clocking and clean power are important. So all of these attempts to improve can make things worse when done incorrectly. Similarly the attempts to get the lowest phase error on an Ethernet (or USB) signal could easily be wrecked by reflections which occur when there are impedance mismatches and layout errors.

[Ralf11]

It isn't that reviewers are lying - the problem is that the methodology they use is not adequate to answer the question posed.

[Speedskater]

9 hours ago, barrows said:

Actually, you are (partly) incorrect.  I have some knowledge of the manufacturing resources available to AudioQuest.  They indeed spec their own cable designs (the actual wire) and have it constructed to their specification by their manufacturer.  This is one of the reasons for the high cost, as we can both imagine the economy of scale here his not very high for 4 nines silver Ethernet cabling.  Although at this point I cannot disagree that their cabling likely offers no improvement in audio performance over the best offerings from Belden. 

Actually because they don't follow good engineering practices (and they don't have Belden's engineering knowledge) their cables are often not as good as the Belden's (and other industrial cable manufactures).

[R1200CL]

19 hours ago, barrows said:

Corning Clear Curve OM3

 

Is this multimode ? Any suggestion for the FSP ?

[Dutch]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Is this multimode ? Any suggestion for the FSP ?

 

OM’x’=multi-mode

OS’x’=single mode

[Miska]

Oh yes, I have many good Ethernet cables!  They transfer data with 0 errors and don't cost much!

 

 

That's my office room switch (from HPE). The cable in the middle is self-made because I wanted exact suitable length. It is from bulk 100 meter reel of CAT6. Same stuff runs inside the walls/underfloor pipes.

 

I especially love the thin CAT6 UTP cables on top-right, very flexible and good for small devices like microRendu to avoid the cable pulling the entire device off the table. The switch has cable length detection enabled, so it won't unnecessarily bang at full power on short cables.

 

Since I need to have things running reliably, the switch and some of the computers are powered through line-interactive UPS.

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, Miska said:

I especially love the thin CAT6 UTP cables

Can you give an example of a thin CAT6 UTP cable we can buy?  They may be very good for the EtherREGEN.  It's going to have a lot of cables hanging off a tiny lightweight case.

[Miska]

50 minutes ago, rickca said:

Can you give an example of a thin CAT6 UTP cable we can buy?  They may be very good for the EtherREGEN.  It's going to have a lot of cables hanging off a tiny lightweight case.

 

These are from a local electronic component shop. Brand is "Goobay", seems to be sold also for example by amazon.co.uk. There two nice types, one is this thin round one and another is flat ribbon. Both are very flexible.

https://www.yeint.fi/en/it-multimedia/cables-accessories/computer-cables/patch-cables/cat6/cat6network-cable-white-20m

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goobay-96322-Cat-Patch-Cable-Black/dp/B00KXE49SM/ref=sr_1_7

 

In the ordinary thick CAT6 that the middle one for example is, there's quite big plastic cross core in the middle that keeps the four twisted pairs in place relative to each other. That plastic core is quite stiff and makes the cable also stiff, in addition to already thicker copper. Manufacturing technique for the thinner more flexible ones is different and reminds me more of those Ultra320 SCSI cables and some PCIexpress cable risers.

 

[PeterSt]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

That plastic core is quite stiff and makes the cable also stiff,

 

Just take CAT5. Then you don't have that. And is as good (enough) for normal usage.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Just take CAT5. Then you don't have that. And is as good (enough) for normal usage.

 

I had some CAT5e's, but now all replaced with CAT6. These new flexible CAT6 types are more flexible than the regular CAT5e types.

 

The full strength CAT6 is good for long runs inside walls and such, and for desktop computers. But for something like microRendu it is too annoying.

 

[Ralf11]

I am just surprised that Lee posted something that did not extoll MQA.

[Axial]

Audiophile Style Ethernet Audio Cables

 

This guy (Jay Luong) has tried few different Ethernet cables ...

• https://audiobacon.net/2019/11/02/the-jcat-signature-lan-a-1000-ethernet-cable/amp/

 

[AnotherSpin]

The ethernet cables affect the sound without a doubt. If the cable is used between the server and the NAA endpoint, the first and foremost thing is to accept and follow Miska's (HQP) insistent recommendation: cables should not be shielded. No metal covers on connectors. In my sound set MeiCord U/UTP ethernet cables provide very good sound. I am going to present a detailed comparison between the different types of ethernet cables in "novel" thread soon.

[crenca]

3 hours ago, Axial said:

Audiophile Style Ethernet Audio Cables

 

This guy (Jay Luong) has tried few different Ethernet cables ...

• https://audiobacon.net/2019/11/02/the-jcat-signature-lan-a-1000-ethernet-cable/amp/

 

 

Mr. Luong is a typical reviewer in audiophiledom in that he hears the "sound" of digital communication such that digital cables can do things like "really nail the midrange" and the like.  In other news, some folks have had various orifices been probed by aliens... 😱

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

Mr. Luong is a typical reviewer in audiophiledom in that he hears the "sound" of digital communication such that digital cables can do things like "really nail the midrange" and the like.  In other news, some folks have had various orifices been probed by aliens... 😱

Did you ever try ethernet cables beyond generic no-name variety?

[Axial]

1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

Mr. Luong is a typical reviewer in audiophiledom in that he hears the "sound" of digital communication such that digital cables can do things like "really nail the midrange" and the like.  In other news, some folks have had various orifices been probed by aliens... 😱

 

I don't know, I never met the guy, I never measured its level of authenticity. 

We are going to put a man on it...it's a French expression...from a famous songwriter. 

[Blake]

I think Crenca gets probed on the daily.

[marce]

6 hours ago, Blake said:

I think Crenca gets probed on the daily.

Wow, impressive reply, gets my vote for reply of the year!