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What's the consensus on ethernet cables?


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6 hours ago, barrows said:

Cables I do not like:

 

Anything from an unknown chinese manufacturer (amazon purchases, Best Buy, etc) these cables often do not even meet their rated spec.

 

Anything with metal shells on the plugs connected to a shield, which defeats the isolation inherent in Ethernet (typically CAT7 and 8.

 

Cables I do like:

 

Blue Jeans Cables CAT 6A, this uses Belden (USA) boded pair wire, which guarantees equal length for each wire of the twisted pair, as well as proper spacing and impedance control.  It is shielded, but the shield is floating, so no worries about potential ground currents.  BJC also tests every cable after termination, which is very nice.

 

Corning Clear Curve optical (my new new favorite) 😉.

 

 

I went with non shielded.  If the shield is not terminated on one end, it can act as a choke.

 

I have experimented with CAT7 cable used as a spdif cable.  There is a big sonic difference between leaving the shield on and stripping it off.  It has a very choked and congested with loss of high frequency with the shield on.  That was on a 22 foot run.

 

There was also a big difference in performance based upon the connector I used.  I have a Furutec Connector that is screw down and that was way better than some other solder on brand I tried.  I wonder how much of it was the solder as opposed to the metal in the body.

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On 2/2/2019 at 9:15 PM, PeterSt said:

 

Music plays from the Audio PC (the one containing literally nothing except MoBo and processor (all LPSU powered)). This connects to what I call the music server (it holds and provides the music storage) and this is via Ethernet (it is not even part of the LAN). Music dynamically loads all into RAM when I ask for that via the software (player), shuts down the Ethernet connection and plays. Only a minimalistic Ethernet (protocol) connection is maintained to control the Audio PC (Stop, Skip, Volume and the like).

 

Mentioned "music server" (which thus holds the storage) itself connects to the LAN and Internet. So from there Tidal is arranged for (no Qobuz here). There is no brain cell in me that tells me that that would require a better Ethernet cable. So who knows, but I don't think so.

Are you using an endpoint of sorts?  2 computers?  I have seen people with software that loads the music into RAM and plays back from there.  It was in a laptop.  All one unit. Damb good for a laptop.    I really get 2 computers if you are upsampling.  All that noise would be in one machine, then send the packet to another machine that loads to RAM and plays from there.  That would be very quiet. 

 

Would you share what software you are using to play from RAM?

Thanks

 

On 2/2/2019 at 9:15 PM, PeterSt said:

 

 

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42 minutes ago, mansr said:

All software plays from RAM. It is impossible not to.

Not all software stores the entire file to RAM, then plays it out.  I gather this is software that is temporarily "on" the RAM with the music file stored in it.  Regular streaming is a file on a HD, processed through the RAM.  No software or data is stored on the RAM.  Correct?????

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1 minute ago, KingRex said:

Not all software stores the entire file to RAM, then plays it out.  I gather this is software that is temporarily "on" the RAM with the music file stored in it.  Regular streaming is a file on a HD, processed through the RAM.  No software or data is stored on the RAM.  Correct?????

What do you mean by the "entire file", a single track, a single album, a playlist... considering gapless playback and high resolution, at some point the RAM has to be loaded during playback, unless you have a nearly infinite amount of RAM.  None of this matters though, the music is always playing from RAM.

Best sonics occur with the lowest processing noise getting to the DAC, you do not have to load entire playlists or albums into RAM to achieve this.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

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1 minute ago, KingRex said:

Not all software stores the entire file to RAM, then plays it out.

True, but why should it matter? A typical music file is, uncompressed, 50-100 MB in size. That's but a small fraction of the total RAM which also holds the OS, the playback software, and other things. The USB hardware feeding the DAC doesn't care what else the RAM contains besides the particular bytes it happens to be reading at any instant. The music data probably won't even be stored in a single contiguous block either.

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So, if a whole song is in RAM, why is ethernet cabling so important.  Even isolators.  I can see some noise being transmitted through the ethernet so isolators helping.  But it sounds like all the bits of the song are in the RAM, so why would a cable make a difference.  

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7 minutes ago, KingRex said:

So, if a whole song is in RAM, why is ethernet cabling so important.  Even isolators.  I can see some noise being transmitted through the ethernet so isolators helping.  But it sounds like all the bits of the song are in the RAM, so why would a cable make a difference.  

Does it?  My recommendation is for a quality cabbie which meets spec (many generic Chinese made cables do not meet the nominal spec), Blue Jeans Cable CAT 6A, this cable is not expensive.  Even better, I recommend an optical Network system with quality optical cable, as this entirely eliminates the possibility of upstream noise getting to the Renderer.  Noise is the enemy, not lost bits, that never happens over ethernet, as it is error corrected.  Now one could make the case that more error correction results in higher noise levels (possible, but unproven to my knowledge), so having cable which meets spec and is high bandwidth is likely a good idea, for good measure.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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4 minutes ago, KingRex said:

I get lost bits, but why would people hear dfferences between a blue jeans that I use and an Audioquest Diamond.  It's not making sense to me.  

People "hear" lots of things!  It does not always mean it is true.  I value subjective experiences, but when all technical understanding points to a conclusion which is contrary to a subjective experience, I would demand, at least, a plausible technical explanation why a Chinese made "audiophile" cable "sounds better".  I have never heard such an explanation, never mind seen a measurement, just asking for a plausible theory, and no one has ever even offered that.

I would not say it is impossible (never say never), but if a manufacturer of said cable cannot even offer any plausible theory as to why it might be better, how do they go about engineering the cable in the first place?  Random trial and error?

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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26 minutes ago, KingRex said:

I get lost bits, but why would people hear dfferences between a blue jeans that I use and an Audioquest Diamond.  It's not making sense to me.  

 

 

perception isn't hearing in the sense of physics, only in the sense of psychological mechanisms

 

IOW, they may well not be really hearing anything - hence the need for blind testing

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6 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

what about  unknown Mexican, Brazilian... manufacturers??

Good point. 

 

If anyone ever ever finds themselves near Corning NY the glass museum is awesome. 

 

Belden copper cable with the new(ish) REVConnect connector system is SOA regardless of which country it’s attached in.

 

 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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50 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

IOW, they may well not be really hearing anything - hence the need for blind testing

 

Make the deaf man blind ? That could be too much of it.

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4 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Good point. 

 

If anyone ever ever finds themselves near Corning NY the glass museum is awesome. 

 

Belden copper cable with the new(ish) REVConnect connector system is SOA regardless of which country it’s attached in.

 

 

 

Yes, it's so simple.  Belden.

 

Too simple for the audiophoold mind... we must deconstruct the text and spend more money

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19 hours ago, KingRex said:

 

I went with non shielded.  If the shield is not terminated on one end, it can act as a choke.

 

I have experimented with CAT7 cable used as a spdif cable.  There is a big sonic difference between leaving the shield on and stripping it off.  It has a very choked and congested with loss of high frequency with the shield on.  That was on a 22 foot run.

 

There was also a big difference in performance based upon the connector I used.  I have a Furutec Connector that is screw down and that was way better than some other solder on brand I tried.  I wonder how much of it was the solder as opposed to the metal in the body.

Wrong cable for the job... Also 22 foot for SPDIF is a bit extreme to say the least.

I am intrigued as to how the cable preformed DSP functions and reduced the treble, this could be a major discovery....

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17 hours ago, KingRex said:

Ok, I guess this is DC, not AC.  I don't know much about DC.  Does that mean there is no way for the voltage and current to induce to the metal shield.  

 

Every signal has a return path, for low frequency signals this path is the path of least resistance, as signal frequency increases the return current follows the path of least inductance, this is the main path for return current once we get to 1MHz and above... A signal always has two conductors the signal wire and its return path, the signal travels in the space between these two wires. For co-ax cable the shield is also the return path and the EM fields are within the shield. Other signals can be single ended or differential and can be transmitted by either shielded or unshielded cable, the shield is generally connected to the chassis and should be separate from the signals return path, usually the system 0Vs. 

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Made in the USA

▪ http://beldenblog.com/made-in-the-u-s-a-not-as-easy-as-it-sounds/

 

I have zero clue about Ethernet cables made in China, India, Africa, Venezuela, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. My Belden Ethernet cables I use in North America with the North American system network transmission, and they come free with my telecommunication service provider. If I need to purchase new and more in my nearby computer electronic stores they are so inexpensive that there is no time to think twice. 

 

If ever there are scientific studies on what are the best for different regions and applications and performances I will post those studies right here. 

Some places are more prone to EMI ... just get an Ethernet cable anti-EMI for your place.

 

I am still waiting for the scientists making Ethernet cables with their studies ... including audio applications, video applications, and with measurements. 

If the measurements don't measure up I want to use my eyes and ears as much as it is feasible to trust them @ an age of advanced degradation. ...It's a way of speech...to say that with great health comes great responsibilities. ...Physiologically. 

 

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Where something is made is not critical.  What is important is whether it is made to spec., what the spec. is, etc.

 

e.g. iPhones are made in China, as are some Nikon lenses; other Nikon lenses are made in Thailand...

 

Eventually, it will just boil down to what country uses the best robots...

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