Popular Post Kal Rubinson Posted February 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Ralf11 said: what about unknown Mexican, Brazilian... manufacturers?? There's not much one can say about the unknown. audiobomber and barrows 1 1 Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 that sounds like a song lyric... Link to comment
Paul R Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 6 hours ago, barrows said: Corning Clear Curve optical (my new new favorite) 😉. Clearcurve ZBL - my private stash is a guilty hoarder purchase I guess, but I do love that stuff... jabbr 1 Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 6 hours ago, barrows said: Cables I do not like: Anything from an unknown chinese manufacturer (amazon purchases, Best Buy, etc) these cables often do not even meet their rated spec. Anything with metal shells on the plugs connected to a shield, which defeats the isolation inherent in Ethernet (typically CAT7 and 8. Cables I do like: Blue Jeans Cables CAT 6A, this uses Belden (USA) boded pair wire, which guarantees equal length for each wire of the twisted pair, as well as proper spacing and impedance control. It is shielded, but the shield is floating, so no worries about potential ground currents. BJC also tests every cable after termination, which is very nice. Corning Clear Curve optical (my new new favorite) 😉. I went with non shielded. If the shield is not terminated on one end, it can act as a choke. I have experimented with CAT7 cable used as a spdif cable. There is a big sonic difference between leaving the shield on and stripping it off. It has a very choked and congested with loss of high frequency with the shield on. That was on a 22 foot run. There was also a big difference in performance based upon the connector I used. I have a Furutec Connector that is screw down and that was way better than some other solder on brand I tried. I wonder how much of it was the solder as opposed to the metal in the body. Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 9:15 PM, PeterSt said: Music plays from the Audio PC (the one containing literally nothing except MoBo and processor (all LPSU powered)). This connects to what I call the music server (it holds and provides the music storage) and this is via Ethernet (it is not even part of the LAN). Music dynamically loads all into RAM when I ask for that via the software (player), shuts down the Ethernet connection and plays. Only a minimalistic Ethernet (protocol) connection is maintained to control the Audio PC (Stop, Skip, Volume and the like). Mentioned "music server" (which thus holds the storage) itself connects to the LAN and Internet. So from there Tidal is arranged for (no Qobuz here). There is no brain cell in me that tells me that that would require a better Ethernet cable. So who knows, but I don't think so. Are you using an endpoint of sorts? 2 computers? I have seen people with software that loads the music into RAM and plays back from there. It was in a laptop. All one unit. Damb good for a laptop. I really get 2 computers if you are upsampling. All that noise would be in one machine, then send the packet to another machine that loads to RAM and plays from there. That would be very quiet. Would you share what software you are using to play from RAM? Thanks On 2/2/2019 at 9:15 PM, PeterSt said: Link to comment
Superdad Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, KingRex said: Would you share what software you are using to play from RAM? Since you asked that question of @PeterSt, the answer will be XX-HighEnd, a very advanced Windows-based player application he has developed and refined over the years. He probably has thousands of users worldwide. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted February 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, KingRex said: Would you share what software you are using to play from RAM? All software plays from RAM. It is impossible not to. barrows, Ralf11 and mav52 2 1 Link to comment
Speedskater Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, KingRex said: I went with non shielded. If the shield is not terminated on one end, it can act as a choke. Not in a cable that has both the Send & Return conductors. Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Speedskater said: Not in a cable that has both the Send & Return conductors. Ok, I guess this is DC, not AC. I don't know much about DC. Does that mean there is no way for the voltage and current to induce to the metal shield. Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, mansr said: All software plays from RAM. It is impossible not to. Not all software stores the entire file to RAM, then plays it out. I gather this is software that is temporarily "on" the RAM with the music file stored in it. Regular streaming is a file on a HD, processed through the RAM. No software or data is stored on the RAM. Correct????? Link to comment
barrows Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, KingRex said: Not all software stores the entire file to RAM, then plays it out. I gather this is software that is temporarily "on" the RAM with the music file stored in it. Regular streaming is a file on a HD, processed through the RAM. No software or data is stored on the RAM. Correct????? What do you mean by the "entire file", a single track, a single album, a playlist... considering gapless playback and high resolution, at some point the RAM has to be loaded during playback, unless you have a nearly infinite amount of RAM. None of this matters though, the music is always playing from RAM. Best sonics occur with the lowest processing noise getting to the DAC, you do not have to load entire playlists or albums into RAM to achieve this. Ralf11 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
mansr Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 minute ago, KingRex said: Not all software stores the entire file to RAM, then plays it out. True, but why should it matter? A typical music file is, uncompressed, 50-100 MB in size. That's but a small fraction of the total RAM which also holds the OS, the playback software, and other things. The USB hardware feeding the DAC doesn't care what else the RAM contains besides the particular bytes it happens to be reading at any instant. The music data probably won't even be stored in a single contiguous block either. Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 So, if a whole song is in RAM, why is ethernet cabling so important. Even isolators. I can see some noise being transmitted through the ethernet so isolators helping. But it sounds like all the bits of the song are in the RAM, so why would a cable make a difference. Link to comment
barrows Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, KingRex said: So, if a whole song is in RAM, why is ethernet cabling so important. Even isolators. I can see some noise being transmitted through the ethernet so isolators helping. But it sounds like all the bits of the song are in the RAM, so why would a cable make a difference. Does it? My recommendation is for a quality cabbie which meets spec (many generic Chinese made cables do not meet the nominal spec), Blue Jeans Cable CAT 6A, this cable is not expensive. Even better, I recommend an optical Network system with quality optical cable, as this entirely eliminates the possibility of upstream noise getting to the Renderer. Noise is the enemy, not lost bits, that never happens over ethernet, as it is error corrected. Now one could make the case that more error correction results in higher noise levels (possible, but unproven to my knowledge), so having cable which meets spec and is high bandwidth is likely a good idea, for good measure. Ralf11 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 I get lost bits, but why would people hear dfferences between a blue jeans that I use and an Audioquest Diamond. It's not making sense to me. Link to comment
barrows Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, KingRex said: I get lost bits, but why would people hear dfferences between a blue jeans that I use and an Audioquest Diamond. It's not making sense to me. People "hear" lots of things! It does not always mean it is true. I value subjective experiences, but when all technical understanding points to a conclusion which is contrary to a subjective experience, I would demand, at least, a plausible technical explanation why a Chinese made "audiophile" cable "sounds better". I have never heard such an explanation, never mind seen a measurement, just asking for a plausible theory, and no one has ever even offered that. I would not say it is impossible (never say never), but if a manufacturer of said cable cannot even offer any plausible theory as to why it might be better, how do they go about engineering the cable in the first place? Random trial and error? SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, KingRex said: I get lost bits, but why would people hear dfferences between a blue jeans that I use and an Audioquest Diamond. It's not making sense to me. perception isn't hearing in the sense of physics, only in the sense of psychological mechanisms IOW, they may well not be really hearing anything - hence the need for blind testing sandyk 1 Link to comment
jabbr Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Ralf11 said: what about unknown Mexican, Brazilian... manufacturers?? Good point. If anyone ever ever finds themselves near Corning NY the glass museum is awesome. Belden copper cable with the new(ish) REVConnect connector system is SOA regardless of which country it’s attached in. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
PeterSt Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 50 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: IOW, they may well not be really hearing anything - hence the need for blind testing Make the deaf man blind ? That could be too much of it. jabbr 1 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, jabbr said: Good point. If anyone ever ever finds themselves near Corning NY the glass museum is awesome. Belden copper cable with the new(ish) REVConnect connector system is SOA regardless of which country it’s attached in. Yes, it's so simple. Belden. Too simple for the audiophoold mind... we must deconstruct the text and spend more money Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 56 minutes ago, jabbr said: Belden copper cable with the new(ish) REVConnect connector system is SOA regardless of which country it’s attached in. The REVConnect tool kit is invaluable. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
marce Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 19 hours ago, KingRex said: I went with non shielded. If the shield is not terminated on one end, it can act as a choke. I have experimented with CAT7 cable used as a spdif cable. There is a big sonic difference between leaving the shield on and stripping it off. It has a very choked and congested with loss of high frequency with the shield on. That was on a 22 foot run. There was also a big difference in performance based upon the connector I used. I have a Furutec Connector that is screw down and that was way better than some other solder on brand I tried. I wonder how much of it was the solder as opposed to the metal in the body. Wrong cable for the job... Also 22 foot for SPDIF is a bit extreme to say the least. I am intrigued as to how the cable preformed DSP functions and reduced the treble, this could be a major discovery.... barrows 1 Link to comment
marce Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 17 hours ago, KingRex said: Ok, I guess this is DC, not AC. I don't know much about DC. Does that mean there is no way for the voltage and current to induce to the metal shield. Every signal has a return path, for low frequency signals this path is the path of least resistance, as signal frequency increases the return current follows the path of least inductance, this is the main path for return current once we get to 1MHz and above... A signal always has two conductors the signal wire and its return path, the signal travels in the space between these two wires. For co-ax cable the shield is also the return path and the EM fields are within the shield. Other signals can be single ended or differential and can be transmitted by either shielded or unshielded cable, the shield is generally connected to the chassis and should be separate from the signals return path, usually the system 0Vs. jabbr 1 Link to comment
Axial Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Made in the USA ▪ http://beldenblog.com/made-in-the-u-s-a-not-as-easy-as-it-sounds/ I have zero clue about Ethernet cables made in China, India, Africa, Venezuela, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. My Belden Ethernet cables I use in North America with the North American system network transmission, and they come free with my telecommunication service provider. If I need to purchase new and more in my nearby computer electronic stores they are so inexpensive that there is no time to think twice. If ever there are scientific studies on what are the best for different regions and applications and performances I will post those studies right here. Some places are more prone to EMI ... just get an Ethernet cable anti-EMI for your place. I am still waiting for the scientists making Ethernet cables with their studies ... including audio applications, video applications, and with measurements. If the measurements don't measure up I want to use my eyes and ears as much as it is feasible to trust them @ an age of advanced degradation. ...It's a way of speech...to say that with great health comes great responsibilities. ...Physiologically. Sound Matters Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Where something is made is not critical. What is important is whether it is made to spec., what the spec. is, etc. e.g. iPhones are made in China, as are some Nikon lenses; other Nikon lenses are made in Thailand... Eventually, it will just boil down to what country uses the best robots... Link to comment
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