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Lee Scoggins

What's the consensus on ethernet cables?

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12 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

For some real information on Cat cables from some cable industry experts (Kurt Denke & Steve Lampen):

http://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2011/mar_lampen/

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/bjc-cat-network-cable-quality-interview

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-your-cat6-a-dog.htm

Steve Lampen has a lot more blogs, but this should be enough for now.

 

Interesting read. I am using the Monster Cat 5e cables that my local Ace Hardware store sells.

 

The package claims that it meets EIA/TIA T568 A/B standards and that is is certified up to 350mhz.

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9 hours ago, KingRex said:
10 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

I use nothing.

I gather you are saying all music is stored on one the server and you stream usb to your DAC?

 

The alterations I made to my setup make distinguishing between files stored on my server pretty much indistinguishable from streamed Qobuz or Tidal tracks.

 

Yes, that important it is.

 

9 hours ago, KingRex said:

Since the thread was about Ethernet cables I thought I would include other design criteria I find to influence the sound I hear via my Ethernet.

 

Justified IMO.

 

10 hours ago, KingRex said:

My internal SSD has its own PS.

 

And I don't use that either. :rolleyes: I really use literally nothing. But this is all related to the software I use and how that makes such a setup possible. But never mind that because it isn't about that. However, it *is* about using nothing. And that really is so.

Though this is not 100% true ...

 

Music plays from the Audio PC (the one containing literally nothing except MoBo and processor (all LPSU powered)). This connects to what I call the music server (it holds and provides the music storage) and this is via Ethernet (it is not even part of the LAN). Music dynamically loads all into RAM when I ask for that via the software (player), shuts down the Ethernet connection and plays. Only a minimalistic Ethernet (protocol) connection is maintained to control the Audio PC (Stop, Skip, Volume and the like).

 

Now does the Ethernet cable matter for that connection ? I never tried. As you may know we sell the ^2 cables for it, but I never tried myself ... and to be honest, the ET^2 cables are made for i2s connections over Ethernet and for such a connection customers certainly are raving - for PC-PC (or LAN) connections I wonder whether it has been used; whether it can make a difference for that ? if you say so ...

 

Mentioned "music server" (which thus holds the storage) itself connects to the LAN and Internet. So from there Tidal is arranged for (no Qobuz here). There is no brain cell in me that tells me that that would require a better Ethernet cable. So who knows, but I don't think so.

 


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On 1/29/2019 at 4:04 PM, Lee Scoggins said:

What ethernet cables have members had success with?

 

Are there sound quality differences between Cat 5, Cat 6, and Cat 7 cables?

 

Is there a good value ethernet cable?

 

- I've had success with essentially  any ethernet cable that worked 😁. Heck, Cat-5e is even fine for my 10GbE connection to the server.

 

- No. How can there be, really? And who has shown a problem apart from data corruption from malfunctioning/marginal cables?

 

- Sure. Amazon Basics Cat-6 sounded just fine the other night at $7/14 feet.


Archimago's Musings... A "more objective" audiophile blog.

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On 1/30/2019 at 8:04 AM, Lee Scoggins said:

What ethernet cables have members had success with?

 

@jolon compared different ones and as usual his measurements of the RCA outputs pretty much got "ridiculed" to the bitter end

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/82480-acoustic-revive-rl-1-lan-isolator-mini-review/

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/82299-ethernet-cable/?page=6&tab=comments#comment-1353754

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/90018-short-review-audioquest-forest-ethernet-audio-cable/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-1457099

 

Some might actually bother to take a crack at cracking the code. Others spectators would be cracking up since they just love to crack some jokes, though there's always a crackdown on anything that's seemingly counter-intuitive.

 

If you were hearing a difference, then it must be placebo. If you weren't hearing any differences whatsoever, then there's no such thing as nocebo. If an oscilloscope were showing a difference, then you'll be greeted by all kinda mumbo jumbo.

 

See? The measurement setup sucked no matter what and that's why any kinda we shouldn't even waste our time

 

http://www.crazy-audio.com/2013/10/tracking-down-noise-sources-on-a-raspberry-pi/

 

At the end of day it's gotta be expectation bias whenever you're expecting a difference, and then there will be no expectation bias at all as long as you aren't expecting any kinda differences. In other words, you better lower expectation all the way to zero and that's why you're considered unbiased.

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I'm someone who believes that cables make a difference in audio systems in some circumstances (e.g. power cables and USB cables used for USB Audio, RCA cables that carry analogue audio, etc). However, Ethernet itself is nothing to do with audio. Any Ethernet cable will transport network data between two nodes reliably unless it is broken or the recommended length is exceeded.

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3 hours ago, Taz777 said:

I'm someone who believes that cables make a difference in audio systems in some circumstances (e.g. power cables and USB cables used for USB Audio, RCA cables that carry analogue audio, etc). However, Ethernet itself is nothing to do with audio. Any Ethernet cable will transport network data between two nodes reliably unless it is broken or the recommended length is exceeded.

 

However there are audible differences between ethernet cables as there are between USB cables.

I prefer to go WiFi.

 

Matt

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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Supra 8.  I gave them a try due to the very positive feedback I've read here and on other online reviews.   In the past I've only used generic cables both shielded and non and found the Supra to sound excellent.  A bit polite and laid back initially but overall delivered a well balanced presentation once settled in and more likely me just getting used to the change.  Come to think of it, after adding these cable to my spaghetti front end things sounded so smooth that I finally did a bit of surgery on my Maggie's crossover and bypassed the fuses.  

 

Not dirt cheap but not crazy expensive.  In fact if you need a long rub, Supra sells their cable in bulk pre-terminated packages.

 

Hoshi

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  I use CAT 7. Works well.


 

2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD,  PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12

Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips.

Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. 

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4 hours ago, RCG said:

Anyone with the full knowledge and understanding of the OSI model and how Ethernet works knows that just having a good, solid cable is plenty good enough.

Yes.

 

4 hours ago, RCG said:

Completely different animal from the likes of USB in how it works. 

No.

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On 2/3/2019 at 2:38 AM, marce said:

This:

https://audiobacon.net/2018/09/28/the-linear-solution-ocxo-audiophile-switch-reference-ethernet-cable-the-missing-pieces-of-digital-audio/

Not the best modification of a clock I have seen, in fact it could be the worse, where is the return for the clock, why aren't the supply lines twisted pair and the wire soldered to the chassis has no mechanical relief. Its a good example of how not to connect a clock module.

Yeah, I saw that picture and gasped.  Looks like a poorly done DIY effort.  This is a manufacturer???  At least send the clock signal over a properly terminated coax cable (U.FL, SMB, etc).


ROON: DSD 256-Signature Rendu optical--Buffalo PRO or DSC-2--Ncore 400 Stereo-Focus Audio FS888-JL E-112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, Cardas Clear AC, Iconoclast XLR, Nordost Frey speaker, cables, Synergistic Blue & Hi Fi Tuning Supreme Cu Fuses, Dark Matter system clarifiers.    Design/Build Consultant with Sonore

 

                                                                                                  SONORE computer audio

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Cables I do not like:

 

Anything from an unknown chinese manufacturer (amazon purchases, Best Buy, etc) these cables often do not even meet their rated spec.

 

Anything with metal shells on the plugs connected to a shield, which defeats the isolation inherent in Ethernet (typically CAT7 and 8.

 

Cables I do like:

 

Blue Jeans Cables CAT 6A, this uses Belden (USA) boded pair wire, which guarantees equal length for each wire of the twisted pair, as well as proper spacing and impedance control.  It is shielded, but the shield is floating, so no worries about potential ground currents.  BJC also tests every cable after termination, which is very nice.

 

Corning Clear Curve optical (my new new favorite) 😉.

 


ROON: DSD 256-Signature Rendu optical--Buffalo PRO or DSC-2--Ncore 400 Stereo-Focus Audio FS888-JL E-112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, Cardas Clear AC, Iconoclast XLR, Nordost Frey speaker, cables, Synergistic Blue & Hi Fi Tuning Supreme Cu Fuses, Dark Matter system clarifiers.    Design/Build Consultant with Sonore

 

                                                                                                  SONORE computer audio

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Ethernet is a perfectly good way to get the audio data to the destination.

 

Regarding the Network stack, like a stack of pancakes, the bottom layer can get clogged up with too much butter & syrup & bacon, not good for the arteries: eat more fiber!


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what about  unknown Mexican, Brazilian... manufacturers??


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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