Ralf11 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 one first has to have a basic knowledge of digital signals, and their transmission - then it will be obvious that Ethernet cable materials are not a major issue the only possible bump is from wired to fiber, due to tiny amounts of noise makinig past (around) the transformers used in Ethernet google 'capacitive leakage' if interested Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 As others have stated, get an ethernet cable that actually meets spec and be done with it. https://www.bluejeanscable.com jomo48 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Blake Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Blue Jeans ethernet is a nice cable. I swapped out my Blue Jeans cable for a Sablon ethernet cable simply out of curiosity and subjectively I found sonic differences between the two. I preferred the Sablon. It wasn't a jaw dropping difference or anything like that but it was enough of a difference that I kept the Sablon (Sablon had a money back guaranty). I am keeping the Blue Jeans though in case I have a need for it in the future. I've bought a number of cables from Blue Jeans (both analog and digital) and they are terrific to deal with and the quality is very good. AudioDoctor 1 Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
R1200CL Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: As others have stated, get an ethernet cable that actually meets spec and be done with it. https://www.bluejeanscable.com Or this one http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/et11.html Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted February 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, R1200CL said: Or this one http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/et11.html Have you ever received a free product from Ghent Audio? crenca and Superdad 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
mansr Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 There's still plenty left of the Cat-5e reel I bought years ago. If I botch a termination, I just cut it off and try again. Link to comment
crenca Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, mansr said: There's still plenty left of the Cat-5e reel I bought years ago. If I botch a termination, I just cut it off and try again. I'm red green color blind (to a significant extent - red traffic lights are red, yellow are yellow, but green lights are just dirty, off white no different than halogen headlights), so during my years in network/system administration it always took me an ordinate amount of time to terminate, as it was an essentially random process 😂 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
audiobomber Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Blake said: Blue Jeans ethernet is a nice cable. I swapped out my Blue Jeans cable for a Sablon ethernet cable simply out of curiosity and subjectively I found sonic differences between the two. I preferred the Sablon. It wasn't a jaw dropping difference or anything like that but it was enough of a difference that I kept the Sablon (Sablon had a money back guaranty). I am keeping the Blue Jeans though in case I have a need for it in the future. I've bought a number of cables from Blue Jeans (both analog and digital) and they are terrific to deal with and the quality is very good. What was the ethernet cable connecting? Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Axial Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, crenca said: Specifically in an audio setting? Who cares. We have this giant electronics/internet/military industrial complex that is utterly dependant on the reliability of digital communication ( and thus ethernet cables). This tiny niche of audio artisans and subjectivists have nothing (absolutely nothing) to contribute, not even "scientifically". It's like Lee says, they "hear" things... 😋 5 hours ago, Axial said: Ok, you seem to be well informed and knowing what you're talking about. 5 hours ago, crenca said: Sarcasm aside, yes what I said is true. No sarcasm, that was also true from me. • http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html Stay tuned because ... Sound Matters Link to comment
Lee Scoggins Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: As others have stated, get an ethernet cable that actually meets spec and be done with it. https://www.bluejeanscable.com That's what I did. A 30 foot run arrives tomorrow. AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Paul R Posted February 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Axial said: Anyone here who have measured them to see any graphical differences, plus participating in blind listening tests to check the auditive similarities, or slight variances? Forget the money, I'm talking strictly sound quality between brands, construction, connectors, metallurgy, science, mathematics, physics, concrete factual studies. I'm interested in higher knowledge, in the-matter-of-fact truth. Same as it always has been - some people hear a difference. Exactly what they hear is up for question, but there is no reason to dispute that they do hear a difference. I hear a difference - in my systems - between using a CAT5E / CAT6 cable and fibre connections. I prefer the fiber connections whenever possible. I don't hear a difference in electrical ethernet cables unless one cable is damaged. Scientifically? There is, so far as I know, no evidence to say one ethernet cable will make an audible difference over another. But then, there is no money in doing the research to prove that, especially if it were to turn out that orthodox reasoning is correct, and no audible differences can be found and duplicated. (grin) Personally I am waiting for quantum entangled transmissions between our music servers and DACs. When the signal outraces all electrical effects... ah, that's the ticket! -Paul Axial, Ralf11, The Computer Audiophile and 1 other 1 2 1 Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul R said: (grin) Personally I am waiting for quantum entangled transmissions between our music servers and DACs. When the signal outraces all electrical effects... ah, that's the ticket! Talk about a wireless connection! Stream from anywhere, literally... haha. No electron left behind. Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Paul Good to see you posting again. Regards Alex Ajax 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post marce Posted February 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2019 12 hours ago, Axial said: Anyone here who have measured them to see any graphical differences, plus participating in blind listening tests to check the auditive similarities, or slight variances? Forget the money, I'm talking strictly sound quality between brands, construction, connectors, metallurgy, science, mathematics, physics, concrete factual studies. I'm interested in higher knowledge, in the-matter-of-fact truth. Your starter: http://www.x2y.com/filters/TechDay09kr_hpa_Track2_1_Precision_Analog_Designs_Demand_GoodPCBLayouts _JohnWu.pdf Some good stuff on here: https://www.bethesignal.com/bogatin/ This ain't bad: http://www.sigcon.com/ Then there's Ralph Morrison, move on fields of electronics: https://www.amazon.com/Fields-Electronics-Understanding-Using-Physics/dp/0471222909 Henry Ott for the EMC side: http://www.hottconsultants.com/ All the IC manufacturers sites are full of papers, design guides, technical notes on every interface you can think of, including from the likes of Intel, complete guides to lay out motherboards. Funnily reading all this stuff and playing with it you realise bits are periodic current spikes and "periodic current spikes are periodic current spikes" by any other name. An example of the detail we often have to work to today, especially with arrays is signal traces for critical timing matched to within 1.3nS (0.2mm) and down to pS (0) in some instances. With microwave it gets even sillier as the following guide illustrates, you will notice a lot of the structures (components) don't have direct electrical conductivity, here youn have to think of the signal as a propagating wave: https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Files/RF-Microwave_PCB_Design_and_Layout.pdf Its fun. Axial and barrows 2 Link to comment
Popular Post KingRex Posted February 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2019 I am an electrician. I have run cat5 and cat6 to and from my rack and associated equipment. Cat6 is a lot better than Cat5. If you don't hear the difference, you probably have a jumper of 5 still in the chain. It only takes one bad jumper and it all goes bad. I replaced my entire loom of cat 6 with Blue Jeans Cat 6. I did not notice any big change so I never took the time to really compare the 2. I just figure the Blue Jeans is good so I left it alone. FWIW all my digital audio is routed through a Linear Solution Switch. You can clearly hear the upgraded switch is better than a decent Netgear switch. AudioDoctor and Lee Scoggins 1 1 Link to comment
Blake Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 14 hours ago, audiobomber said: What was the ethernet cable connecting? It connects my Apple Airport Extreme to my UltraRendu. audiobomber 1 Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
new_media Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 15 hours ago, crenca said: I'm red green color blind (to a significant extent - red traffic lights are red, yellow are yellow, but green lights are just dirty, off white no different than halogen headlights), so during my years in network/system administration it always took me an ordinate amount of time to terminate, as it was an essentially random process 😂 I friend of mine from high school was a Navy electrician until they discovered he was color blind. AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, new_media said: I friend of mine from high school was a Navy electrician until they discovered he was color blind. oops. No electron left behind. Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 51 minutes ago, KingRex said: I am an electrician. I have run cat5 and cat6 to and from my rack and associated equipment. Cat6 is a lot better than Cat5. If you don't hear the difference, you probably have a jumper of 5 still in the chain. It only takes one bad jumper and it all goes bad. I replaced my entire loom of cat 6 with Blue Jeans Cat 6. I did not notice any big change so I never took the time to really compare the 2. I just figure the Blue Jeans is good so I left it alone. FWIW all my digital audio is routed through a Linear Solution Switch. You can clearly hear the upgraded switch is better than a decent Netgear switch. I could also note, I did not get into the Ethernet cabling changes till I got the Linear Solution switch. That improvement made me much more conscious of the changes the cables made. With no validation on this next statement: maybe the better switch cleaned up noise enough to better distinguish the changes the cables were making. In short, the whole chain matters. In a separate post I also noted the following. I use to have a Aris Router/Modem doing all the work. It was a modem and router with a netgear switch in the chain. That means the Aris is not only the demarcation of the utility at my house. It is also doing double as a router assigning IP addresses to my gear. I was experiencing slow connection times and dropouts. I then added a Asus AC5300 router/wifi. Not only did my speed greatly improve and drop outs go away, the digital sound got better. I noted this on another forum and some very credible individuals validated what I was hearing and noted they configure their networks the same way. In summation: 1 Use a Modem as only a modem. It demarcates the utility signal to your house network 2 Use a quality Router as the device to assign IP addresses. You will have to go into the preferences of both your modem and router and tell them to do as such. Otherwise they will conflict with each other both trying to assign IP addresses. 3 Use an audio quality switch. There are a few choices people talk about on this forum 4 Use quality Cat6 minimum throughout your network. One bad patch cable and you shunt much of the good from everything else. I suggest Blues Jeans as its already terminated and very inexpensive. If you run your own you have to punch down to a terminate strip and use jumpers from there. Or you need a good crimping tool such as from Belden to crimp male ends on your cable. 5 keep your digital cables from paralleling power cables. They can cross as 90* but I would try and give them a good foot separation form power. Lee Scoggins 1 Link to comment
PeterSt Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, KingRex said: 1 Use 2 Use 3 Use 4 Use I use nothing. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
KingRex Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 33 minutes ago, PeterSt said: I use nothing. I gather you are saying all music is stored on one the server and you stream usb to your DAC? The alterations I made to my setup make distinguishing between files stored on my server pretty much indistinguishable from streamed Qobuz or Tidal tracks. My internal SSD has its own PS. Since the thread was about Ethernet cables I thought I would include other design criteria I find to influence the sound I hear via my Ethernet. I think cables matter. But I also believe the whole network heavily influence the purity and quality of the data transmission. Link to comment
NOMBEDES Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 My router is in a remote location. I want to run cable to my PS Audio DAC Is there a distance limitation for Ethernet cable as far as audio application go? Serious Question. In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law Link to comment
mansr Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said: My router is in a remote location. I want to run cable to my PS Audio DAC Is there a distance limitation for Ethernet cable as far as audio application go? Same as any other application, 100 metres. Link to comment
NOMBEDES Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 @mansr. Thanks. In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law Link to comment
Popular Post Speedskater Posted February 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2019 For some real information on Cat cables from some cable industry experts (Kurt Denke & Steve Lampen): http://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2011/mar_lampen/ https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/bjc-cat-network-cable-quality-interview https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-your-cat6-a-dog.htm Steve Lampen has a lot more blogs, but this should be enough for now. Ajax and jabbr 1 1 Link to comment
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