SACD PC-PLAYBACK (DSD layer) is possible, after all ...

[mindset]

Doing this on Blu-Ray compatible players will probably yield disc image without decryption:

dd if=/dev/sr0 of=test.bin

This seems to work on multiple Sony players I have.

 

Note that TOC is not encrypted.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, mindset said:

Doing this on Blu-Ray compatible players will probably yield disc image without decryption:

dd if=/dev/sr0 of=test.bin

This seems to work on multiple Sony players I have.

 

Note that TOC is not encrypted.

It certainly doesn't work with my LG GGW-H20L drive.

[mindset]

48 minutes ago, mansr said:

It certainly doesn't work with my LG GGW-H20L drive.

I was not very clear.  You need a BD player capable of SACD ripping.  sacd_extract generates a decrypted image, but dd will extract image without decryption.

 

I just mentioned this as a way to check if the disc mentioned earlier in this thread is indeed not encrypted.

[Nexus3]

7 hours ago, mansr said:

It is of course possible that all the discs that got mastered without encryption also happen to have a filesystem.

Well that is indeed my basic theory, behind all this. 

 

7 hours ago, mansr said:

However, you'd need a sample size much larger than 2 to make such an inference.

Agreed @mansr - a task much easier to achieve though, with the help of the APS community. 🤗

 

6 hours ago, mansr said:

TSSTcorp CD/DVDW TS-L632B reads the Freddy Cole disc.

Congratulations, looks that we will have to compile two lists (discs & drives) then. 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, mindset said:

this as a way to check if the disc mentioned earlier in this thread is indeed not encrypted:

 

3 hours ago, mindset said:

dd if=/dev/sr0 of=test.bin

This seems to work on multiple Sony players I have.

Hello @mindset , would you run this command on a telnet session, having a 8GB USB stick (with the telnet script) attached to the SONY?

 

 

 

Last but not least, I had another go on a really pristine TELARC SACD 📀, which I bought recently.

Sadly this 2001 print (catalogue number starts with 6, the old releases begin with number 8 ) shows up only as AudioCD 💿.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, Nexus3 said:

Congratulations, looks that we will have to compile two lists (discs & drives) then. 

All the magic drives seen so far have been Toshiba models. That's probably not a coincidence.

[mindset]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:51 AM, Nexus3 said:

Hello @mindset , would you run this command on a telnet session, having a 8GB USB stick (with the telnet script) attached to the SONY?

Yes.  Please give it a try if you are interested.

[Nexus3]

Well @mindset, the task is done though the start was a bit funny. I executed the command while being in "SLEEP mode" (=no usb ports available), which put my player into a deep coma - only a cold reboot, by pulling the cord helped reviving it.

 

With the help of the following command in "AWAKE mode" (close tray manually and press stop),

Quote

~ # mount
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime)
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime)
none on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=169076k,nr_inodes=42269)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,mode=600)
/dev/mtdblock17 on /mnt/rootfs_normal type squashfs (ro,relatime)
/dev/mtdblock18 on /mnt/rootfs_enc_it type squashfs (ro,relatime)
ubi0:ubi_boot on /mnt/ubi_boot type ubifs (rw,sync,relatime)
ubi0:custom_app_data on /mnt/custom_app_data type ubifs (rw,sync,relatime)
ubi0:log_data on /mnt/log_data type ubifs (rw,sync,relatime)
ubi0:3rd_data on /mnt/3rd_data type ubifs (rw,sync,relatime)
none on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw,relatime)
/dev/sdf1 on /mnt/sdf1 type tntfs (rw,relatime,uid=0,gid=0,umask=00,nls=utf8,cas                                              e_sensitive,errors=continue,mft_zone_multiplier=1)

 

 I could identify the designation of the USB flash drive (/mnt/sdf1) and start the image building.

 

 

• 1. Here is the result of the "unprotected" Freddy Cole SACD:

dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/mnt/sdf1/cole.bin
4753216+0 records in
4753216+0 records out
2433646592 bytes (2.3GB) copied, 725.285000 seconds, 3.2MB/s

 

The telnet image extraction yields a bit identical file compared against the PC-based ISO creation or the remote SACD-extract ripping:

d37f3954118e782e36bc71c3ad698742 *cole.bin
d37f3954118e782e36bc71c3ad698742 *Freddy Cole - Merry-Go-Round.iso

sacd_extract (via SACDExtractGUI.jar) can also process the image file (cole.bin):

Quote

SACDExtractGUI v0.1-5-g97d05f95
https://github.com/setmind/SACDExtractGUI.git

Use of this program that results in any form of copyright infringement is strictly prohibited.

[RUNNING][sacd_extract.exe, -i, F:\cole.bin, -P]

Disc Information:

    Version:  1.00
    Creation date: 2000-03-23
    Catalog Number: SACD 83493 SA   
    Locale: en
    Title: Merry-Go-Round
    Artist: Freddy Cole
    Publisher: Telarc
    Copyright: Telarc

Album Information:

    Catalog Number: SACD 83493 SA   
    Sequence Number: 1
    Set Size: 1
    Locale: en
    Title: Merry-Go-Round
    Artist: Freddy Cole
    Publisher: Telarc
    Copyright: Telarc

Area count: 1
    Area Information [0]:

    Version:  1.00
    Area Description Phonetic: Freddy Cole
    Track Count: 11
    Speaker config: 2 Channel
    Track list [0]:
        Title[0]: Watching You, Watching Me
        Performer[0]: Freddy Cole
        Title[1]: It's Impossible
        Performer[1]: Freddy Cole
        Title[2]: Merry-Go-Round
        Performer[2]: Freddy Cole
        Title[3]: I Remember You
        Performer[3]: Freddy Cole
        Title[4]: Forgive My Heart
        Performer[4]: Freddy Cole
        Title[5]: Through a Long And Sleepless Night
        Performer[5]: Freddy Cole
        Title[6]: If You Went Away
        Performer[6]: Freddy Cole
        Title[7]: Take a Little Time To Smile
        Performer[7]: Freddy Cole
        Title[8]: I Realize Now / I Miss You So
        Performer[8]: Freddy Cole
        Title[9]: Smoke Gets in Your Eyes
        Performer[9]: Freddy Cole
        Title[10]: You're Sensational
        Performer[10]: Freddy Cole

[DONE]

 

 

 

• 2. Next is a fully proctected SACD with NO file systems:

dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/mnt/sdg1/straits.bin
6392352+0 records in
6392352+0 records out
3272884224 bytes (3.0GB) copied, 909.034000 seconds, 3.4MB/s

Needless to say that no player accepts the image file and sacd_extract starts to spin on it:

Quote

SACDExtractGUI v0.1-5-g97d05f95
https://github.com/setmind/SACDExtractGUI.git

Use of this program that results in any form of copyright infringement is strictly prohibited.

[RUNNING][sacd_extract.exe, -i, F:\straits.bin, -s, -2, -P, -t, 7, -o, E:\DSD]

Disc Information:

    Version:  1.20
    Creation date: 2005-04-20
    Catalog Number: 9871497/9871498 
    Locale: en
    Title: Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition
    Artist: Dire Straits
    Publisher: Mercury Records Limited
    Copyright: Copyright 2005 Mercury Records Limited

Album Information:

    Catalog Number: 0602498714980   
    Sequence Number: 1
    Set Size: 1
    Locale: en
    Title: Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition
    Artist: Dire Straits
    Publisher: Mercury Records Limited
    Copyright: Copyright 2005 Mercury Records Limited

Area count: 2
    Area Information [0]:

    Version:  1.20
    Area Description Phonetic: SACD Stereo
    Track Count: 9
    Speaker config: 2 Channel
    Track list [0]:
        Title[0]: So Far Away
        Performer[0]: Dire Straits
        Title[1]: Money For Nothing
        Performer[1]: Dire Straits
        Title[2]: Walk Of Life
        Performer[2]: Dire Straits
        Title[3]: Your Latest Trick
        Performer[3]: Dire Straits
        Title[4]: Why Worry?
        Performer[4]: Dire Straits
        Title[5]: Ride Across The River
        Performer[5]: Dire Straits
        Title[6]: The Man's Too Strong
        Performer[6]: Dire Straits
        Title[7]: One World
        Performer[7]: Dire Straits
        Title[8]: Brothers In Arms
        Performer[8]: Dire Straits
    ISRC Track [0]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00201
    ISRC Track [1]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00195
    ISRC Track [2]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00205
    ISRC Track [3]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00209
    ISRC Track [4]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00207
    ISRC Track [5]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00199
    ISRC Track [6]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00203
    ISRC Track [7]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00197
    ISRC Track [8]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00193
    Area Information [1]:

    Version:  1.20
    Area Description Phonetic: SACD 5.1 Surround
    Track Count: 9
    Speaker config: 6 Channel
    Track list [1]:
        Title[0]: So Far Away
        Performer[0]: Dire Straits
        Title[1]: Money For Nothing
        Performer[1]: Dire Straits
        Title[2]: Walk Of Life
        Performer[2]: Dire Straits
        Title[3]: Your Latest Trick
        Performer[3]: Dire Straits
        Title[4]: Why Worry?
        Performer[4]: Dire Straits
        Title[5]: Ride Across The River
        Performer[5]: Dire Straits
        Title[6]: The Man's Too Strong
        Performer[6]: Dire Straits
        Title[7]: One World
        Performer[7]: Dire Straits
        Title[8]: Brothers In Arms
        Performer[8]: Dire Straits
    ISRC Track [0]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00202
    ISRC Track [1]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00196
    ISRC Track [2]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00206
    ISRC Track [3]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00210
    ISRC Track [4]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00208
    ISRC Track [5]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00200
    ISRC Track [6]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00204
    ISRC Track [7]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00198
    ISRC Track [8]:
      Country: GB, Owner: F08, Year: 05, Designation: 00194
DSF output: E:\DSD\Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition

Processing [E:\DSD\Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition\07 - Dire Straits - The Man's Too Strong.dsf] (1/1)..
Completed: 1% (1,0MB), Total: 1% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 0

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 1

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 2

Completed: 2% (2,0MB), Total: 2% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Ptable entry out of range in frame: 3

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 4

Completed: 4% (3,0MB), Total: 4% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 5

Completed: 5% (4,0MB), Total: 5% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Invalid segment resolution in frame: 6

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 7

Completed: 8% (6,0MB), Total: 8% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 8

Completed: 9% (7,0MB), Total: 9% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 9

Completed: 11% (8,0MB), Total: 11% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 10

Completed: 12% (9,0MB), Total: 12% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal arithmetic code in frame: 11

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 12

Completed: 13% (10,0MB), Total: 13% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 13

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 14

ERROR Invalid segment resolution in frame: 15

ERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 16

ERROR Invalid segment length in frame: 17

Completed: 19% (14,0MB), Total: 19% (72,3MB) at 1,#JMB/secERROR Illegal stuffing pattern in frame: 18

ERROR Invalid segment resolution in frame: 19

[DONE]

 

 

• 3. Last is a proctected SACD with additional file systems:

 

~ # dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/mnt/sdh1/goldsmith.bin
8170560+0 records in
8170560+0 records out
4183326720 bytes (3.9GB) copied, 1089.400000 seconds, 3.7MB/s

 

On first sight the results look alike but they are not identical twins:

 

 

 

To make a long story short - mindset's strategy has played out successful, yet again 😎.

So if anyone is out there suspecting to have some unprotected SACDs lying around, but has no Toshiba (HD) DVD-ROM PC-drive at hand, the verification CAN INDEED be done solely on Sony SACD-ripping capable rack Blu-ray players.

 

Just do a FULL-Rip with sacd_extract and compare that .ISO file to the .BIN file created by the telnet approach above.

 

If they are bit identical (= same hash values) the DISC is FREE of any encryption and needs to be mentioned in this thread 😜.

[PilliVilli]

Hello. I'm got an external Xbox HD DVD drive.

Do I understood it right that it should be taken out of the cabinet and if so, how should it be connected to the computer?  The plug on the back is not a standard sata plug.

 

Thank you

 

 

[Jeff T.]

I am bringing up an old post, yes, but I've purchased an Xbox360 HD DVD Drive and hooked it to my PC, but I can only see the CD-DA layer, not the DSD layer. Is there a special driver I have to use for the drive to get this to work? Using The Police - Every Breath You Take album to do this. It is a hybrid SACD. Has SACD Stereo, SACD Surround, and CD-DA on it.

[Kal Rubinson]

I would not expect any HD DVD drive to play DSD.

[botrytis]

There is no decoding chip on DVD or Blue-ray drives for computers, so don't expect any SACD playback.

[manisiutkin]

Some Sony PS3 had DVD drives with PSP decoders onboard, but I'm not aware of any other ones.

[chadja]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:59 PM, Kal Rubinson said:

I would not expect any HD DVD drive to play DSD.

 

So, I came upon this thread to try and find a way to rip SACD independent of a stand-alone SACD capable drive. Meaning I want to rip with a Windows or Linux PC. The OP showed that their process used an Xbox 360 external add on drive that is HD DVD capable. I picked up a used Xbox 360 drive with unknown miles/life/use from ebay for 30 dollars shipped. The seller indicated that it worked.

 

I attached it to my Windows 11 Pro machine, and the drive will only interface with the CD FS/CDDA layer of the 10 discs that I have. All marked with "Super Audio CD" and "DSD". 

 

I did some interwebs searching and some recommended getting a CD/DVD drive cleaner disc. I bought one of those and used it to clean the drive and it is still only reading the CDDA layer. Tried a can of air and still not working; just the CDDA layer.

 

Is there any way with software or hardware to force this drive to use the correct reading head/laser when I insert a SACD? I am not afraid of taking the housing apart and soldering.

 

I may try the recommended TSL632 drive noted elsewhere in this thread with a laptop drive JAE 50-Pin to USB adapter. Adapter is less than 7 dollars and a used TSL632 is 10 dollars.

 

I know this is possible; going from a SACD to an ISO; there is someone on ebay selling SACD ripping to an ISO as a service. They show a Mac with some software open in one of their listing photos:

[firedog]

2 hours ago, chadja said:

 

So, I came upon this thread to try and find a way to rip SACD independent of a stand-alone SACD capable drive. Meaning I want to rip with a Windows or Linux PC. The OP showed that their process used an Xbox 360 external add on drive that is HD DVD capable. I picked up a used Xbox 360 drive with unknown miles/life/use from ebay for 30 dollars shipped. The seller indicated that it worked.

 

I attached it to my Windows 11 Pro machine, and the drive will only interface with the CD FS/CDDA layer of the 10 discs that I have. All marked with "Super Audio CD" and "DSD". 

 

I did some interwebs searching and some recommended getting a CD/DVD drive cleaner disc. I bought one of those and used it to clean the drive and it is still only reading the CDDA layer. Tried a can of air and still not working; just the CDDA layer.

 

Is there any way with software or hardware to force this drive to use the correct reading head/laser when I insert a SACD? I am not afraid of taking the housing apart and soldering.

 

I may try the recommended TSL632 drive noted elsewhere in this thread with a laptop drive JAE 50-Pin to USB adapter. Adapter is less than 7 dollars and a used TSL632 is 10 dollars.

 

I know this is possible; going from a SACD to an ISO; there is someone on ebay selling SACD ripping to an ISO as a service. They show a Mac with some software open in one of their listing photos:

Not sure why you refuse to use one of the compatible SACD players to rip, which we know works. In both cases you are ripping it with your computer. The SACD player is just the transport. Not any different than using something like an X-Box. You can pick up such a drive on ebay for peanuts. No need to look for special "magic" SACDs.