Multichannel Sound Systems using stereo recordings

[Miska]

6 hours ago, audiobomber said:

Here's what you want, surround  for stereo without phony matrix effects: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafler_circuit

 

This is similar to what I was talking about. I would still fill the center channel and possibly LFE too to end up with 5.0 or 5.1.

 

I just need to add a small thing to the HQPlayer matrix-setup and then it is easy to experiment with this. (DSP engine has all the capability already, but the GUI doesn't support setting it up)

 

It is easy to make different adjusted variations of this.

[Axial]

OP, you can set up a similar multichannel surround sound speaker system in your listening room and experiment with the best stereo music upmixers. 

It's the sound journey that gave us more experience to share on audiophile style forums ...

 

 

Do you like choral music, Opera, Classical symphonies, big band jazz music, Organ music, Church organs and chorales, Orchestral, Psychedelic Rock, New Age Alternative Electronica, ...?  Do you like live music concerts on DVD, Blu-ray? ...The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, Jethro Tull, The Doors, Genesis,  Queen, Judas Priest, Radiohead, Beck, Nine Inch Nails, Moby, Jean-Michel Jarre, Vangelis, Art of Noise, Morphine, Dead Can Dance, Bjork, St Germain, Delerium, Enigma, Tangerine Dream, Pink Floyd, Mike Oldfield, Mickey Hart, Michael Stearns, Ozzy Osbourne, Jesus Christ Superstar, Rob Zombie, Iron Butterfly, Metallica, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Moody Blues, ...and about 5,000 more music bands who are worth it experimenting in multichannel from stereo music upmixers to immersive surround sound. 

 

Classical music recordings from say Channel Classic recording label sound fabulous in multichannel. I prefer over the stereo versions. 

 

Hi-end systems (stereo) start @ roughly $250 and up to $2,500,000

Multichannel setups start @ roughly $550 and they can be as much satisfying as stereo rigs in the tens of thousands of dollars investments including power purifiers, audio cables and audio tweaks. 

 

Audiophile purists (analog) are hardcore stereo gurus. The exorcism they practice is like a drug addiction stronger than heroine or a cocktail of it mixed with others.

It's a penetrating world without exit doors. Don't put more than two speakers in that world or Jesus won't be your friend anymore. 

 

@ the strip joint across the street, with pool tables and whiskey, you can attach more that one speaker per pole, as seen in that short video above, and people have fun too, very. 

 

Experiment, it's worth it I'd say;  good for the spirit, soul, experience and fun of living a life that is way too short to be restricted and behind walls. Multichannel is more fun than stereo from many stereo recordings...I think. 

 

When I go to a ballet concert @ the hall, I can hear the orchestra's reverbs from all around me, even from overhead...live. 

[fas42]

If your rig can't do justice to, say, the original mastering of Led Zeppelin I - in pure stereo - then everything else noted about the benefits of MCH mean nothing - full impact presentation of recordings is the number one requirement for immersive listening; if the setup chickens out when asked the question, then the playing field is way off balance ...

[fas42]

35 minutes ago, Axial said:

.

 

 

 

 

Forget about the silly sound effects carry on in this clip - the key bit is the Dire Straits song build up, at about 1:00 - this should be an orgasmic experience, of the highest audio quality - makes the rest of the "rubbishy" tidbits in the video just plain annoying ...

[Axial]

I only posted for a multichannel setup in real life listening room as an example of Auro-Matic music upmixer...what's basically required as the number of speakers, that is all.

 

But other upmixers are of the 5.1 variety for simplification.  

 

Do you have a multichannel music setup in your home? 

Did you experiment with various stereo recordings and upmixers and speaker's positioning and the numbers of them, plus one subwoofer or two or multiple? 

 

Do you watch multichannel music concert videos from DVDs, Blu-rays, Netflix, ...?

You use the TV speakers, a stereo receiver (integrated amp) with two speakers, a surround soundbar, an AV receiver with surround sound system (five speakers), with DD and DTS audio decoders? 

 

[Miska]

My normal speaker setup is 2.1 (stereo pair plus subwoofer). Main channels high pass for the subwoofer is acoustic, so the sub is adjusted to start where the main speakers fall out naturally. When I want, I can have rear channels as extra, so the system becoming 4.1. I haven't yet added center channel to the current system. So nothing is lost by having multichannel, one can first build the preferred stereo system and then add more channels to it. It doesn't take anything away...

 

My current multichannel source is exaSound e28 DAC, so I can run 8 channels at DSD256. But the other alternative (and more pricey) would be Merging NADAC.

 

[Sal1950]

 

On 1/14/2019 at 7:12 PM, Ralf11 said:

Let's say you only have stereo recordings in your collection...

 

How much better will a multichannel sound system sound?

 

On 1/14/2019 at 7:17 PM, mansr said:

As much as you enjoy fake surround upmixing.

Exactly, personally I enjoy it quite a bit. Depending on the processor you own there are a lot of options to chose from, some better than others and a very subjective choice.  YMMV

 

On multichannel recordings, there are  tons of SACD's in classical,  a much more limited choosing for popular.

 

On 1/14/2019 at 7:20 PM, Ralf11 said:

I limited this topic as there not many multi-channel recordings.

 

In fact, I have a hard time even finding CDs of several things I want...

[Sal1950]

On 1/14/2019 at 7:30 PM, Axial said:

There are plenty multichannel music recordings, but true you can upmix stereo recordings to multichannel. One of the best upmixer for stereo music is Auro-3D.

I guess beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I paid the $200 upgrade fee to add Auro to my Marantz AV7703 and was quite disappointed with it. To me it adds too much of a reverb sound to the front channels messing up the basic stereo image, very echo-y results to me. I prefer Dolby Surround or DTS  on most recordings.  If your interested in upmixing stereo you do have to play around with the different options available on your system to find which you prefer with any particular recording. In my rig I have at least 5 options I can think of when you include the options of Dolby and DTS with/without use of the overhead channels. The older PL II was a very good format for some recordings, sadly no longer available in more recent AVR's

There's also the Harman/Lexicon/Onkyo system which I've heard used to some amazing results though now almost obsolete.

 

More to the OP's question " how much better will it sound"?

Highly debatable. some love/like it, many stereo guys hate it.

Get a inexpensive receiver, add a few speakers to your rig and find your own way.

YMMV

[fas42]

20 hours ago, Axial said:

Do you have a multichannel music setup in your home? 

Did you experiment with various stereo recordings and upmixers and speaker's positioning and the numbers of them, plus one subwoofer or two or multiple? 

 

Do you watch multichannel music concert videos from DVDs, Blu-rays, Netflix, ...?

You use the TV speakers, a stereo receiver (integrated amp) with two speakers, a surround soundbar, an AV receiver with surround sound system (five speakers), with DD and DTS audio decoders? 

 

 

A previous rig was a basic, Philips HT all in one - it was set up with the speakers at the back, etc. Sometimes I accidentally triggered the surround sound mode - but this did absolutely nothing to significantly alter the subjective presentation; the stereo sound field did all that was necessary for a room filling sensation.

 

I've been in a room many times with gimmicky multichannel - it's not my cup of tea ... natural reverberation from the listening room does all that is necessary, if the direct sound is good enough.

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, fas42 said:

I've been in a room many times with gimmicky multichannel - it's not my cup of tea ... natural reverberation from the listening room does all that is necessary, if the direct sound is good enough.

 

That is one of the major problems with most speaker systems if you listen for some concert recordings with real acoustics. You have two acoustics messed together. You have the venue acoustics in the recording and then you have the room acoustics added afterwards. No such problem with headphones though. With multichannel you can lessen the impact of listening room acoustics and bring more of the venue acoustics in.

 

When you have studio mix, practically all the reverb on the recording is artificial anyway (created with one of the many hardware or software reverbs), and then you can either reproduce that with minimal room reverb impact or add amount of room reverb to your taste. Again, not a problem with headphones either.

 

Listening calibrated (corrected) speaker system in anechoic chamber gives you all original reverb/acoustics without mixed-in local room acoustics.

 

[fas42]

6 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

That is one of the major problems with most speaker systems if you listen for some concert recordings with real acoustics. You have two acoustics messed together. You have the venue acoustics in the recording and then you have the room acoustics added afterwards. No such problem with headphones though. With multichannel you can lessen the impact of listening room acoustics and bring more of the venue acoustics in.

 

 

How it works for classical, concert recordings - over speakers, is that below a certain SQ the recording acoustic loses - but get above that SQ, and the captured space 'wins' - the recording acoustic is dominant; and the possibly huge concert hall is where your head now is. The fascinating thing is that even low quality, historical recordings can do that - I have a couple of those BBC magazine freebie CDs, and when the system is in good tune, then the 70 year old captures show a very impressive acoustic.

[Sal1950]

Currently listening to Pink Floyd - The Endless River BluRay.   Using the 5.1 24/96 LPCM stream off the blu ray disc to the Marantz Pre/Pro, then choosing DTS Neural X to upmix for the 4 overhead immersive channels. This recording sounds amazing , what a dynamite mastering job !!!

[Miska]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

How it works for classical, concert recordings - over speakers, is that below a certain SQ the recording acoustic loses - but get above that SQ, and the captured space 'wins' - the recording acoustic is dominant; and the possibly huge concert hall is where your head now is. The fascinating thing is that even low quality, historical recordings can do that - I have a couple of those BBC magazine freebie CDs, and when the system is in good tune, then the 70 year old captures show a very impressive acoustic.

 

Have you tried to add second and maybe third copy of your "good SQ" system to the same room and running it as a multichannel system?

 

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

Have you tried to add second and maybe third copy of your "good SQ" system to the same room and running it as a multichannel system?

Frank gets full surround from a single speaker.

[fas42]

Just now, Miska said:

 

Have you tried to add second and maybe third copy of your "good SQ" system to the same room and running it as a multichannel system?

 

 

I laugh ... it takes enough effort to get a single stereo rig into the good zone ... umm, if I'm getting off on the sound, as is, the urge to push the envelope any further is just not there - as they say, "Enjoy the music!" .

[fas42]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Frank gets full surround from a single speaker.

 

Not as silly as it sounds ... imagine listening to a full blown, live acoustic event, coming through a single doorway, into your living space - would that sound mediocre, unsatisfying, a lesser experience?

[Ralf11]

I just jack my USB cable right into the hippocampus

[fas42]

 

[esldude]

49 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Not as silly as it sounds ... imagine listening to a full blown, live acoustic event, coming through a single doorway, into your living space - would that sound mediocre, unsatisfying, a lesser experience?

Yes, otherwise everyone would have a little stage, and sell tickets for everyone to stand around outside the door. 

 

Maybe Frank has had this experience of a Juke Box Hero:

 

Standing in the rain, with his head hung low
Couldn't get a ticket, it was a sold out show
Heard the roar of the crowd, he could picture the scene
Put his ear to the wall, then like a distant scream
He heard one guitar, just blew him away

[esldude]

45 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I just jack my USB cable right into the hippocampus

Yeah, but what brand USB cable?  Don't you think it time to upgrade to optical ethernet jack ins? And do you have a linear power supply on that USB cable?  Not like your solution really solves much.  

[fas42]

 

18 minutes ago, esldude said:

Yes, otherwise everyone would have a little stage, and sell tickets for everyone to stand around outside the door. 

 

 

And I can imagine Dennis on the one side of that open doorway, when a big band orchestra is going for it, the players only feet away on the other side - and he says, "Gee, only as good as a kitchen radio - what a shame I can't step a couple of feet through that doorway, to where it's 100's times louder ..."

[STC]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

Not as silly as it sounds ... imagine listening to a full blown, live acoustic event, coming through a single doorway, into your living space - would that sound mediocre, unsatisfying, a lesser experience?

 

Yes. A poor stereo system can sound somewhat like that. Alternative, put youself in a soundproof box with a small opening in a concert hall. You can get the same effect. 

[fas42]

10 minutes ago, STC said:

 

Yes. A poor stereo system can sound somewhat like that. Alternative, put youself in a soundproof box with a small opening in a concert hall. You can get the same effect. 

 

Not the point I was making - you're in a normal, reasonably reverberant space; but the performers may be in relatively small, echoey surroundings - you are getting extremely strong bleeding through of the raw sound.

[Sal1950]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

Frank gets full surround from a single speaker.

Yes , I heard him describe the procedure using blue tac and a couple mirrors. 

 

[STC]

8 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Not the point I was making - you're in a normal, reasonably reverberant space; but the performers may be in relatively small, echoey surroundings - you are getting extremely strong bleeding through of the raw sound.

 

Now you are qualifying your statement. All I remember you used this example to say how your neighbour was impressed with your system just by listening to them through the windows opening. How reflective is yhe sound in open field where you live?