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5G - Are We Safe Or Insane?


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9 hours ago, mordante said:

 

That is in part the result of the capitalistic world we live in. Research must lead to a tangible result. That means there is not enough fundamental research.

 

Also humanity is deeply flawed. We are unable to foresee the results of our actions. Our intelligence is far more developed then our wisdom. We are toddlers with a loaded gun.

 

Then we are going to have to redefine "intelligence"!

 

==========================================

 

I joke sometimes with the young members of my family, "why are you running so much, who is chasing you?"

 

At 5G speed they will end up meeting their own tail ... While in Sweden they discovered the Slow Food😪

 

Roch

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On 2/12/2019 at 4:36 PM, Axial said:

 

Elon Musk and the late Stephen Hawking have both issued warnings not dissimilar to those of Jacque Ellul regarding the possible dire consequences of unregulated Artificial Intelligence.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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3 minutes ago, Allan F said:

Elon Musk and the late Stephen Hawking have both issued sinister warnings not dissimilar to that of Jacque Ellul regarding the lack of regulation of Artificial Intelligence.

Neither of them has a background with any relevance for AI. Musk founded OpenAI, but there is no suggestion that he actually contributes (other than financially) to their work. See also https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nobel_disease.

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• https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/china-is-bent-on-world-domination--but-not-in-the-way-you-think/2017/05/07/ac05993a-31a1-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.7718339c6d23

 

“Now we’re saying that things are really lopsided, and the government needs to wake up and take action,” James McGregor, chairman of APCO Worldwide in China. “This is aimed at domination of the industries of the future. We’re talking about artificial intelligence and all the things that are important to the American economy.”

 

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6 hours ago, mansr said:

Neither of them has a background with any relevance for AI.

 

Of course. No one has regarded either Elon Musk or Stephen Hawking as having any vision of the future.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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The world leader in 5G ...

• http://www.fortune.com/2019/02/19/huawei-ceo-ren-zhengfei-u-s-cannot-crush-us/

 

The UK is now OK with Huawei 5G products. Canada too now because they always follow the Queen (of England). 

It's in the blood...Kings and Queens. 

 

But USA is not OK. They don't follow the Queen, they follow the prince ... of Saudi Arabia, and his dad, the King of the Kingdom. 

Iran...no good, USA is not happy with Iran and Huawei. Screw 5G from Huawei, USA wants none to do with their 5G products...zero minus zero. And Canada is between a hard rock and influencers from USA...China. No good that 5G thing from Huawei with all the thefts and fights and control for world dominance in 5G network telecommunication empire. 

 

Those tiny antennae they hurt before they're even here. 

This crushing crusade will eventually crash the economic financial market (banks) and the world health care humanitarian system. 

All the gold and oil from Venezuela will end up in Siberia. ...Way of speech extension. People from Venezuela could benefit from 5G technology, medicine, water, food, blankets, toothbrushes, toothpaste, bar soaps, chocolates, candies, chips, coke and Kellogs cereals. 

 

Why they just don't get 5G cell phones and get over that guy who tries to buy them all for his own armies of boy scouts. Beats me that we live in a democracy and in peace with our worst respected enemies.  ...Diplomatic sarcasm here, pushed to 5G humor. But it's not that funny in reality, it's very sad  for the people and all their good neighbors. That truck driver needs to visit Siberia and open his own driving business carrying the worst criminals from jails to jails in hope that during the transfers their trucks freeze and get stuck in the ice. 

 

Geezzzzz...

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44 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I think it is about time to answer the question posed in the thread title.

 

I will say "insane"

Here, here....I've not looked in on this in a week or more.  It is indeed insane.  

 

We might be safe, but how safe can insane people be or those around them?

 

I'm still pulling for Elon Musk's satellite internet to render the whole 5G thing moot. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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4 hours ago, mansr said:

Satellite has too high latency.

 

Yep, but I've been in @esldude's position (area without reasonable ground-based internet service), which can make even satellite with its latency start to look attractive.

 

(In my case, where we used to live had the added pleasure of a plan to provide high speed fiber optic based internet by the small college town we lived near getting quashed by Verizon lobbying and lawsuit.  Lovely.)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> wi-fi to router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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4 hours ago, mansr said:

Satellite has too high latency.

Musk's plan is thousands of low orbit satellites. These will have latency comparable to optical fiber networking on the ground. He always aims big. Says he wants around half of all internet traffic to go thru his company. He'll be launching lots of them this year. Has FCC approval for thousands.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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4 minutes ago, esldude said:

Musk's plan is thousands of low orbit satellites. These will have latency comparable to optical fiber networking on the ground.

Low orbit means no dish antennas. I foresee signal strength issues.

 

4 minutes ago, esldude said:

He always aims big. Says he wants around half of all internet traffic to go thru his company.

If that happens, it won't be long before people start accusing him of spying on them, just as they do with Google, once everybody's darling, now. That might not be a bad thing, actually. The man can be quite annoying.

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18 minutes ago, mansr said:

Low orbit means no dish antennas. I foresee signal strength issues.

 

If that happens, it won't be long before people start accusing him of spying on them, just as they do with Google, once everybody's darling, now. That might not be a bad thing, actually. The man can be quite annoying.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/spacexs-satellite-broadband-nears-fcc-approval-and-first-test-launch/

 

Article for generalized audience.  But covers the basics.  You can find details elsewhere.  You'll need what has been described as a large briefcase or large pizza box device on your end to connect.  Beamforming antennas will receive and transmit. Gigabit speeds decent latency.  Some articles have surmised early customers might be banks doing rapid trading, because in some latitudes roundtrip times between major financial centers could slightly beat the best fiber.  I'm not sure if that would turn out to be the case. 

 

Musk doesn't see this as a competitor to 5G directly to my knowledge.  But a pizza box connected to local wireless would seem like it could be used in that manner easier than the large number of short range radios that will be needed for 5G to cover areas.  Seems to me 5G will have to concentrate more than ever on dense cities.  Musk's internet would have no such needs.  So I do think it would reach non-urban areas that 5G may never see or will do so only many years from now. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

if you use his network, will you spammed with Tesla ads?

If I'll get gigabit service I'll take it with the ads.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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45 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Six G.  Go bigly.

 

 

 

 

Gotta keep ahead of Jinah, believe me!

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 hour ago, wgscott said:

Six G.  Go bigly.

 

 

 

 

Holding out for 11G.

 

 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> wi-fi to router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:05 PM, esldude said:

If I'll get gigabit service I'll take it with the ads.

 

I want redundancy and bandwidth a couple orders of magnitude over what we have today. Redundancy first though!

 

Anyone remember the internet was originally designed to survive a nuclear attack? The current AT&T network seems unable to survive when routers are upgraded by offshore techs... 

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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3 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

I want redundancy and bandwidth a couple orders of magnitude over what we have today. Redundancy first though!

 

Anyone remember the internet was originally designed to survive a nuclear attack? The current AT&T network seems unable to survive when routers are upgraded by offshore techs... 

My AT&T DSL functions as if there has been a nuclear attack.  I think they must have the wrong idea. 

 

Two orders of magnitude over what I have still isn't gigabit.  My service peaks in wee hours of the morning with 5 meg down and .5 meg up speeds.   At one time the up speed would sometimes reach 1 meg, but in the past year they've changed it so you never get over 500 kbps. 

 

I suppose Musk's system would have redundancy as there will be several thousand satellites with at least a few visible to your receiving station at any time. 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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