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ajay556

CD players are back ?

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I’m not sure how playing back a CD via a device using error correction is going to sound better than playing back a bit perfect rip via computer of the same CD. At any rate, since learning how to rip SACD’s on one of the other threads here I don’t even play those back manually anymore. 

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9 minutes ago, Miska said:

I wonder how many companies anymore make traditional CD mechanisms.

 

Lot of "CD players" I've seen recently use CD-ROM drives designed for computers and actually have computer ripping the CD on the fly and playing the ripped data. That's also what HQPlayer has been doing since the beginning (and doing also doing upsampling on the fly). That provided better playback quality already over 10 years ago, and still does... Since the CD is being read asynchronously and faster than playback speed, the mechanism doesn't affect playback at all.

 

Multi-format players such as DVD- and Bluray-players operate this way too when playing a CD.

 

Yes CD using CD- roms,  DVD players, SACD etc are enemies of CD playback. This was a marketing ploy. IF you look at the new cd players they use cd only transports/clocks and are far superior in sound quality. 

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what is a "computer transport"??  Is it the thing like a big truck that they used to move old mainframes with?

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3 hours ago, Miska said:

I wonder how many companies anymore make traditional CD mechanisms.

 

There are still a few being made for the top tier players from Japan where SACD holds its own. Esoteric, Accuphase, Denon and Yamaha feature their own designed drives and 'turntables' for their CD/SACD players. If I've missed a couple, not a real issue, but the rest use OEM pressed metal jobs, mainly found in BD drives. BD drive may play movies well, but are lousy at CD. While I had the Mutec MC-3+USB, the output of a cheap BD drive could be improved by reclocking the S/PDIF through the Mutec, worked well, not enough as a keeper though.

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8 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Ok. Another person to put in my “Don’t Know What They Are Talking About” list.....

 

Of course there is bit perfect in digital audio. It’s not hard to read the bits of a CD perfectly. It happens most of the time. 

bit perfect concept works when you are loading a word document. Bit perfect in music has another variable  - time...and their lies the problem. So it has no meaning if bit perfect is being retrieved and sent to the destination with timing errors. That's why there are so many expensive sources like innuos. Computers are noisy sources. The innuos minimizes the timing errors by big and clean  power supplies and avoiding switches.

people need to realize electric circuits do not understand 1s and 0s. It is all volts/currents and errors are in various forms.

Consider reading a book on digital circuitry and you will quickly realize how complex this topic is and cannot justify by saying bit perfect.

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48 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Noise is the problem, not timing. Noise on the ground line; noise in the power; and clock phase noise.

I think you are misunderstanding the word timing - its same as clock...and my point again a bit perfect has zero meaning with a a noisy clock as in all computers. And if you think this statement is wrong then you definitely don't know what you are talking about - Moreover, i have a computer /electrical engineering degree from u of A.  Whats your background - please don't say computeraudiohpile website 😉

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Discussions about timing, clocks and digital noise are fairly irrelevant in this context. Everyone knows that consumer grade computers optimised for games, word processing, e-mails, internet surfing etc have too many compromises to make good tools for high-end audio. Comparing purpose-built TTs and CDPs to regular computers and concluding that the former sound better is fairly meaningless. Compare TTs and CDPs with computer systems designed specifically for high-end audio i.e like to like and the conclusion you likely reach is that the most recent developments in computer-based local and remote streaming knock TTs and CDPs into a cocked hat (are far superior). 

Spend some time and money optimising the data stream and the gap gets even wider. 

There’s one very good reason for some audiophiles to prefer TTs and CDPs and its not absolute sound quality. Lack of knowledge in the areas of computing and networking is widespread enough throughout the audiophile community to support a small niche market in traditional technology. 

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To me, CD Players never left.  What device qualifies as CD Players?  I believe all device that can read CD, i.e. CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, Blu-ray ROM are CD Players. 

 

Although CD Players never left, I only use it to rip a CD instead of playing the data directly from the CD.

 

It is unlikely my CD Player will leave unless there will be no more CDs released.

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What device qualifies as a CDP?  Basically in my mind its anything that requires a spinning plastic disc in order to listen to music. 

Think about an Innuos server.  In essence its the next generation of CD Player. It spins the disc, reads and stores the data at approx. 6X, shuts down the reader and all associated processing then plays the music on demand from cache memory without all the motors, servos, power supply noise, and vibration.

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12 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Now you only need to explain how that has impact on the performance... ;)

 

Yeah, I make my own optimized for audio OS builds too, but it doesn't always make any difference. For example if I use network to send audio to the DAC it really doesn't. Or over USB if the DAC is well designed.

 

I'm personally not so much for NUCs, they are too tightly packed/crammed and don't have so great CPU performance. I personally prefer for example Gigabyte Gaming-series motherboards that have audio optimized DAC-UP USB ports (where you can also turn off USB power from BIOS settings if you want) and equipped with low TDP T-series Intel Core CPU, everything put into passive cooled case. Storage is M.2 SSD or Optane on the motherboard slot. No spinning discs, no fans.

 

Quite honestly Miska, I think we’re both saying the same thing. All I’m saying is that its futile comparing bog standard PCs to TTs and CDPs. But fix all the PC’s problems and they’ll  give TTs and CDP a run for their money, beating them hands down in some cases. As far as I can see, you’re saying the same thing, judging by all the PC optimisations you list.

 

Regarding your point on sending audio via the network, how much attention have you paid to the network components because no matter how good your computer HW and OS, your network will substantially reduce the SQ if it suffers the same issues I listed ie. vibration, noise, poor quality cabling etc. 

 

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