CD players are back ?

[The_K-Man]

3 hours ago, semente said:

 

It's not the amount that is important but the number of ways. But you wouldn't know...

 

Try playing a symphony with a single-driver speaker, but listen to the same work live first.

 

I do know.  And two-way speakers, especially when bi-amped, have made great strides in improvement in thirty years.

[Ralf11]

what kind of pervert puts drivers in a cabinet?

[The_K-Man]

7 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

what kind of pervert puts drivers in a cabinet?

 

✈️!

[fas42]

23 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

This clip shows a classic sound issue that so many systems have - a star rubber stamp on the back of the hand for the first one who picks it ...

 

Well, I didn't have to lft the lid of the ink pad at all ... listen to voice, and the cymbals; at the very start the cymbals are nicely ringing, the voice is open and clear, there's a 'sharpness' about the sound; by the end of the clip the cymbals are turning into dull, white noise, and the voice has developed a choked, shouty quality - it's steadily entering midfi land.

[accwai]

23 hours ago, semente said:

With that CD player and a pair of single-driver speakers? Not possible.

 

And with a SET amp too. One got to be really brain washed to like such a system right?

 

12 hours ago, semente said:

[...] Audiophiles are interested in the sound quality as much as in the music and just like a racing driver wants to extract the maximum performance from his car to get the best handling and the fastest lap time, [...]

 

So how exactly does a racing driver go about extracting best handling and fastest lap time from the car? Always wondered about it but afraid to ask...

[esldude]

3 minutes ago, accwai said:

 

And with a SET amp too. One got to be really brain washed to like such a system right?

 

 

So how exactly does a racing driver go about extracting best handling and fastest lap time from the car? Always wondered about it but afraid to ask...

Not by crossing over so one driver handles the pedals, and another takes care of the steering wheel.

[Ralf11]

26 minutes ago, accwai said:

 

So how exactly does a racing driver go about extracting best handling and fastest lap time from the car? Always wondered about it but afraid to ask...

 

 

gotta be smooth

 

 

BTW, it appears you have 86'd your former avatar

[mansr]

27 minutes ago, esldude said:

Not by crossing over so one driver handles the pedals, and another takes care of the steering wheel.

They use a large woofer:

[davide256]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

what kind of pervert puts drivers in a cabinet?

Klipsch?

[jabbr]

21 hours ago, fas42 said:

Fortunately, I live in a reality where the difference between audio reproduction which is not audibly faulty, and that which is, is very clear. Those that that need to bounce around the room, insisting I'm invoking some bizarre version of science to explain why that can happen, should get a grip -

 

You’ve got some great sh*t ... pot is legal in more and more places in the USA ... great opportunity 😉

[fas42]

Dennis is just now pointing out instances where a rig can "conjure an illusion" - I just happen to be the guy who seriously investigated this, for many years - and it turns out that the "high" is due to eliminating all the significant, audible imperfections.

 

The rule of thumb is: if you're getting a rock solid illusion, no matter where you listen from, then there are no audible faults; any other result means that the anomalies are still too high in level.

[esldude]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Dennis is just now pointing out instances where a rig can "conjure an illusion" - I just happen to be the guy who seriously investigated this, for many years - and it turns out that the "high" is due to eliminating all the significant, audible imperfections.

 

The rule of thumb is: if you're getting a rock solid illusion, no matter where you listen from, then there are no audible faults; any other result means that the anomalies are still too high in level.

So why does stepping inside the doorway to the illusion kill it?

[fas42]

Because you're getting more information ... the "via the doorway" version is minus quite a bit, for obvious reasons - but all the bits you do hear make sense - the brain accepts the illusion. Once you move into the direct sound field, there is nowhere to hide for any anomalies that don't make sense - and the illusion will usually be 'shattered'. What has to be done is lift the standard of the replay even higher, so that even the direct sound field doesn't give hints of the 'fakery' - even though this may not seem possible, it most certainly is. And if the SQ drops from the required level, for whatever reason, then what you hear suffers the same identity crisis as occured when you stepped through the doorway - the illusion is killed.

 

What goes with the illusion still being intact inside the doorway, is that the impact, the intensity of live music is fully in place - you can't have  that illusion form, without the 'physicality' of the energy also being there.

[accwai]

12 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

gotta be smooth

 

Yup. My limited understanding is smoothness could best be measured using data logger, which is much more of a measurement on the driver than of the car. In racing, I believe many dynamic characteristics of the car can be tweaked on the fly these days on the steering wheel in top echelon classes like F1 and WEC LMP1. This strikes me as rather different from the fire-and-forget mentality that many in pursue of audio accuracy are shooting for.

 

Quote

BTW, it appears you have 86'd your former avatar

 

Car #86 in MF Ghost is red. MFG is the sequel to Initial D.

[Hugo9000]

According to his profile, he still has no sound system (it's forever "in limbo"), so presumably he is just listening on his built-in laptop speakers as he has noted in other threads at times.

 

There are no laptop speakers that will give an illusion of live acoustic performance of a kazoo, let alone a piano, whether you're in the same room as the laptop, outside the doorway, or on the rooftop.  I don't understand why anyone gets entangled in his trolling.

 

If his particular laptop with its built-in speakers defies all known laptop limitations, he should name the make and model.  I'm sure there are people all over the internet who would like to go to the junkyard to seek it out, so they can put those tiny speakers into humongous open baffles or elaborate DIY cabinets with 7N OCC silver wiring.  B&O might want to put a thousand of those tiny miracle speakers into their BeoLab 90FAS-SE and sell them for $1mil or so.

[jabbr]

5 hours ago, fas42 said:

What goes with the illusion still being intact inside the doorway, is that the impact, the intensity of live music is fully in place - you can't have  that illusion form, without the 'physicality' of the energy also being there.

 

[mansr]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

I prefer to think of that song as Knights in White Satin.

[jabbr]

9 minutes ago, mansr said:

I prefer to think of that song as Knights in White Satin.

 

Those would be hard to solder to their horses 🤷🏻‍♂️

[marce]

5 hours ago, accwai said:

 

Yup. My limited understanding is smoothness could best be measured using data logger, which is much more of a measurement on the driver than of the car. In racing, I believe many dynamic characteristics of the car can be tweaked on the fly these days on the steering wheel in top echelon classes like F1 and WEC LMP1. This strikes me as rather different from the fire-and-forget mentality that many in pursue of audio accuracy are shooting for.

 

 

Car #86 in MF Ghost is red. MFG is the sequel to Initial D.

Yep racing wheels have very complex electronics these days, a single board computer with DDR all the interfaces and graphics.

[fas42]

6 hours ago, Hugo9000 said:

According to his profile, he still has no sound system (it's forever "in limbo"), so presumably he is just listening on his built-in laptop speakers as he has noted in other threads at times.

 

There are no laptop speakers that will give an illusion of live acoustic performance of a kazoo, let alone a piano, whether you're in the same room as the laptop, outside the doorway, or on the rooftop.  I don't understand why anyone gets entangled in his trolling.

 

If his particular laptop with its built-in speakers defies all known laptop limitations, he should name the make and model.  I'm sure there are people all over the internet who would like to go to the junkyard to seek it out, so they can put those tiny speakers into humongous open baffles or elaborate DIY cabinets with 7N OCC silver wiring.  B&O might want to put a thousand of those tiny miracle speakers into their BeoLab 90FAS-SE and sell them for $1mil or so.

 

You're not paying attention ... I've noted on one of my threads here that I fired up the NAD recently - and was quite pleased that it was still in decent shape - it's been stinking hot here recently, and the NAD CDP don't like it; it sulks, and refuses to play the disk when it gets too warm - I'm into TLC, so I don't abuse the beast, physically or otherwise ... it can have a nap until sanity returns in the weather.

 

You're not paying attention, Number 2 ... I have never said the laptop gives premium performance; but it does work well enough to make it reasonably OK for picking things up in the hearing; I've also mentioned the model, a pretty old HP a couple of times - a high end Dell I also have here is bloody awful, its sound system is a mess; and is useless for any sort of listening.

[fas42]

6 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

 

Had to laugh ... last visit to the local audio friend, we finished by playing that album, all the way through, on LP. The latter rig is remarkably capable considering the cost of the analogue parts - mainly because, he's essentially re-engineered or tweaked every part of the TT, and phono pre-amp.

 

On CD, demo quality - used to play it regularly on that first good digital rig ...

[semente]

On 1/19/2019 at 11:00 PM, esldude said:

Not by crossing over so one driver handles the pedals, and another takes care of the steering wheel.

 

I wouldn't mind having a look at the intermodulation distortion measurements of large single-panel ESLs.

Have you ever seen any?

[jabbr]

On 1/19/2019 at 2:55 PM, Ralf11 said:

what kind of pervert puts drivers in a cabinet?

https://www.passdiy.com/project/speakers/the-kleinhorn-part-1

[esldude]

9 hours ago, semente said:

 

I wouldn't mind having a look at the intermodulation distortion measurements of large single-panel ESLs.

Have you ever seen any?

Yes, they're similarly lower like thd for such panels at least out of the bass region.  Seem to remember .1 % or so.