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Audiolinux Server configurations, Software, Hardware, and Listening Impressions


lmitche

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39 minutes ago, lpost said:

I forgot isolated cores, all but one for audio.  Roon uses 1, HQPe spreads it's threads across all available but with very low % utilization, and 1 for system process like ramsave/rsync and anything I run to monitor like stop, iotop and iftop.

 

This is good for the endpoint.  I've found that doing this on the Roon Core server chokes Roon related functions like adding music to a library or applying updates.  Apparently adding music to Roon doesn't qualify as audio.  @hifi25nl can you please explain what is impacted by isolating cores for audio?

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On 4/15/2019 at 9:37 AM, lmitche said:

Looking at the NUC roadmap raises fears that the new machines won't run at the low tdp (current) levels we enjoy on the 7th generation NUCs today.

 

On 4/15/2019 at 10:14 AM, Monge said:

Thanks,

I think I better get a Nuc7I7DNBE or NUC7I7DNHE or NUC7I7DNKE instead of PJYH if I Can find it somewhere here In Scandinavia.

Cheers Monge

 

I bought a second NUC7I7DNHE to have as a standby when my last one failed.

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Hmm, I don't experience any slow downs with Roon at all running in this mode.  Ramroot has made Roon faster than when running on my fastest SSD, as I would expect.

 

However, I don't find isolated cores makes all that much difference to sound quality either.  I have rtirq and rtapp configured to prioritize HQPe (and not Roon) along with my I2S board and a bit lower my Ethernet fiber adapter just to bump it up ahead of other things.  Piero has said, with the prioritization, isolated cores doesn't have much impact however he's eluded to more isolation to come.

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6 minutes ago, lpost said:

Hmm, I don't experience any slow downs with Roon at all running in this mode.  Ramroot has made Roon faster than when running on my fastest SSD, as I would expect.

 

However, I don't find isolated cores makes all that much difference to sound quality either.  I have rtirq and rtapp configured to prioritize HQPe (and not Roon) along with my I2S board and a bit lower my Ethernet fiber adapter just to bump it up ahead of other things.  Piero has said, with the prioritization, isolated cores doesn't have much impact however he's eluded to more isolation to come.

 

Ramroot is great, it only the isolated cores setting.  Try adding 5+ new albums from Tidal or wherever into Roon (throttled in settings) while you're playing music.

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No problem whatsoever for me.  I routinely add albums from Tidal while listening, have analysis set to throttled (I've also have it set to a couple cores) and can't tell that it's happening.

 

Months ago, my Roon DB blew up to 26GB.  It was corrupt and support had no idea why.  I started from scratch, reimported everything and it's never run better.  It's now 6.5GB.

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29 minutes ago, lpost said:

No problem whatsoever for me.  I routinely add albums from Tidal while listening, have analysis set to throttled (I've also have it set to a couple cores) and can't tell that it's happening.

 

Months ago, my Roon DB blew up to 26GB.  It was corrupt and support had no idea why.  I started from scratch, reimported everything and it's never run better.  It's now 6.5GB.

 

Hmm. I'll have to look deeper then.  Thanks.

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12 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Hmm. I'll have to look deeper then.  Thanks.

 

You could have a look at the rtapp.conf file to check if all types of the Roon processes (roonappliance, roonserver, etc) are added there. By default they are not all there, I remember, so I’ve manually added processes there. I’m away from my computer otherwise I would have listed the ones I have added.

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18 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

This is good for the endpoint.  I've found that doing this on the Roon Core server chokes Roon related functions like adding music to a library or applying updates.  Apparently adding music to Roon doesn't qualify as audio.  @hifi25nl can you please explain what is impacted by isolating cores for audio?

 

The target of core isolation is to give an application/service full control of the core used without interference from another application/service. This could give it a better CPU latency.

This will be less important in realtime systems like Audiolinux where audio applications already have high priority, but could give some improvements

AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com

developer of AudioLinux realtime OS

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I am trying to edit the HQplayerd.xml file  because the driver is not showing  available in the remote interface. Puro suggested I look at the XML file so I went into menu number seven file editor and chose that.XML file and I am stuck in it I do not know how to get out.  All there are symbols down the left-hand side of the screen.  I would reach out to Piero but it is late in Rome.  He has been very helpful but he’s telling me to find this file and edit it and I don’t have a clue

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7 hours ago, hifi25nl said:

 

The target of core isolation is to give an application/service full control of the core used without interference from another application/service. This could give it a better CPU latency.

This will be less important in realtime systems like Audiolinux where audio applications already have high priority, but could give some improvements

 

Piero, with core isolation enabled, Roon processes all appear to be latched onto just a single core, but HQPe is spread across all cores not set aside for system processes.  If I disable core isolation, Roon will use all cores, as will HQPe, this tells me Roon is multi-threaded and will use them but not when isolated.  I don't notice any slowdown with Roon function when isolated but lesser CPUs may/do as reported by Johnseye.

 

Ideas why this is?  In my rtapp.conf I only list hqplayerd, not Roon, per your recommendation.

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Quote

 

9 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

I am trying to edit the HQplayerd.xml file  because the driver is not showing  available in the remote interface. Puro suggested I look at the XML file so I went into menu number seven file editor and chose that.XML file and I am stuck in it I do not know how to get out.  All there are symbols down the left-hand side of the screen.  I would reach out to Piero but it is late in Rome.  He has been very helpful but he’s telling me to find this file and edit it and I don’t have a clue

 

Your configuration will not be saved if the browser you are using does not pop up the HQPe dialog for user/password when you go to ipaddress:8088

 

Audiolinux HQPe is partially configured with user audiolinux password audiolinux

After entering this, you can modify your configuration and hit Apply. You will see the message

Success! Please wait 10 seconds for process to complete...

Just tested on last Audiolinux version 1.2.0 and all is working fine.

AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com

developer of AudioLinux realtime OS

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8 hours ago, lpost said:

 

Piero, with core isolation enabled, Roon processes all appear to be latched onto just a single core, but HQPe is spread across all cores not set aside for system processes.  If I disable core isolation, Roon will use all cores, as will HQPe, this tells me Roon is multi-threaded and will use them but not when isolated.  I don't notice any slowdown with Roon function when isolated but lesser CPUs may/do as reported by Johnseye.

 

Ideas why this is?  In my rtapp.conf I only list hqplayerd, not Roon, per your recommendation.

 

If you have selected and configured core isolation, all audio services will be stopped and disabled.

After reboot, if you enable HQPe or Roon, audiolinux will start the new systemd services hqplayerd2 roonserver2 that will use only the isolated cores. You can check this with 1 "SHOW running audio services" in configuration menu.

If you are using isolated cores you can boot only with audiolinuxBFQjail, the Standard/Extreme/Extreme2 options are defined in the script and added to this boot option.

AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com

developer of AudioLinux realtime OS

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Hi Piero,

 

Does that mean core isolation is not compatible with NUMA audiolinuxBFQ boot mode?

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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6 hours ago, hifi25nl said:

 

If you have selected and configured core isolation, all audio services will be stopped and disabled.

After reboot, if you enable HQPe or Roon, audiolinux will start the new systemd services hqplayerd2 roonserver2 that will use only the isolated cores. You can check this with 1 "SHOW running audio services" in configuration menu.

If you are using isolated cores you can boot only with audiolinuxBFQjail, the Standard/Extreme/Extreme2 options are defined in the script and added to this boot option.

I completely understand this.  What I don't understand is why Roon doesn't use more than one core when in isolation mode.  HQPe does always, and Roon does when not in isolation.  If you don't know, it's OK to say so.

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9 minutes ago, lpost said:

I completely understand this.  What I don't understand is why Roon doesn't use more than one core when in isolation mode.  HQPe does always, and Roon does when not in isolation.  If you don't know, it's OK to say so.

Remember that roon code runs on mono the Linux CLR equivalent. You may find an answer here:

 

https://www.mono-project.com/archived/threadsbeginnersguide/

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Hi Piero,

Thanks for all the AL updates 😀

Great work. My Al system sound so nice.

 

What happens to isolated CPU cores to Audio if

 

You have 4 cores running with turbo off at base frequency and isolated CPU cores set at half.

Then you set performance and turbo on.

Do you now only have 2 CPU cores at higher speeds?

 

Thanks Monge

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No you should have all cores at higher speed.

A customer asked me to experiment with different frequencies per core. 

 

You could try as root, for each CPU from cpu0

echo your_frequency > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq

echo your_frequency > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq

 

echo your_frequency2 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq

echo your_frequency2 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq

 

etc.

AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com

developer of AudioLinux realtime OS

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2 hours ago, hifi25nl said:

No you should have all cores at higher speed.

A customer asked me to experiment with different frequencies per core. 

 

You could try as root, for each CPU from cpu0

echo your_frequency > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq

echo your_frequency > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq

 

echo your_frequency2 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq

echo your_frequency2 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq

 

etc.

Piero,

 

After booting with audiolinuxBFQjail, can one use similar commands to do frequency scaling given that cpupower doesn't work to do that?

 

Thanks.

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40 minutes ago, ronfint said:

Piero,

 

After booting with audiolinuxBFQjail, can one use similar commands to do frequency scaling given that cpupower doesn't work to do that?

 

Thanks.

Yes, the commands to change frequency are in the configuration menu and they work in any mode.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Thanks, but at least for my CPU (Intel i7 8809G) isolating cores prohibits the script for CPU frequency scaling from working correctly. Piero confirmed this, I guess on his setup. I can either boot with BFQjail, and get isolated cores and CPU frequency set to 3.9 GHz — no matter what I try to set with the custom cpu frequency script, or I can boot into Extreme2, e.g., and then the frequency that I set with the custom script works, but, of course, no isolated cores.

 

For myself, I like choosing custom frequencies more than isolated cores. It seems to have a similar effect to setting VTA on a phono cartridge. It would be nice to have both, though. 

 

Can you get both to work simultaneously in your setup?

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10 minutes ago, ronfint said:

Thanks, but at least for my CPU (Intel i7 8809G) isolating cores prohibits the script for CPU frequency scaling from working correctly. Piero confirmed this, I guess on his setup. I can either boot with BFQjail, and get isolated cores and CPU frequency set to 3.9 GHz — no matter what I try to set with the custom cpu frequency script, or I can boot into Extreme2, e.g., and then the frequency that I set with the custom script works, but, of course, no isolated cores.

 

For myself, I like choosing custom frequencies more than isolated cores. It seems to have a similar effect to setting VTA on a phono cartridge. It would be nice to have both, though. 

 

Can you get both to work simultaneously in your setup?

Yes, I have both working simultaneously here on an i7-6700, NUC7I7DNXX, and NUC7PHJY. Make sure you have the latest version of the pstate-frequency package. You also need to be sure the bios is set properly for scaling.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Yes, thank you Piero for your tireless work.  I hope you take some time away from the keyboard from time to time.

 

pstate-frequency doesn't work if I have 'Quiet n' Cool' disabled in bios.  It's AMD version of Intel SpeedStep.  

 

I adjust the mulitplier for CPU frequency in bios.  I find the slowest Ghz sounds the best in my system.  It's still plenty of HP for my use, a bit of low frequency eq and convolution filters (that I need to re-measure and update for dual subs).

 

Worth a try, checking SpeedStep setting.  I believe this is what allows for scaling.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Yes, I have both working simultaneously here on an i7-6700k and NUC7I7DNXX. Make sure you have the latest version of the pstate-frequency package.

I did update with yaourt -S pstate-frequency on Wednesday. I thought that I had both working together, but when I checked CPU frequency in the Status menu, I realized that it was not working.I also checked with  cpupower frequency-info.I then wrote to Piero who confirmed that I was correct, and he said that he would investigate. 

 

My above message was asking whether the commands involving echo your_frequency > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq 

offer a work around.

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