Dutch Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 4/3/2019 at 2:54 PM, hifi25nl said: Yes and Yes... but the asound.conf will apply to all applications, especially Roon Unfortunately this will not work for me. Once I create the asound.conf file and reboot my core/endpoint won’t list my output device (Mutec MC-3+ USB) in Roon. When I remove the file it works again. I do see the Mutec when I list the audio card IRQ’s, it has the closed status. Any ideas? edit; I’m running AL 1.0 menu 103 and created the file using the root account. System details Link to comment
lmitche Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dutch said: Unfortunately this will not work for me. Once I create the asound.conf file and reboot my core/endpoint won’t list my output device (Mutec MC-3+ USB) in Roon. When I remove the file it works again. I do see the Mutec when I list the audio card IRQ’s, it has the closed status. Any ideas? edit; I’m running AL 1.0 menu 103 and created the file using the root account. Did you try this without the Mutec device? I appreciate this is not what you want, but I know at least three people that removed and later sold Mutec USBs after installing NUC/AL endpoints. You may be surprised. I did this same change here yesterday. The result was harsh, so as suggested I lowered real-time priority to standard and ended up with a better result than when I started. Also, the latest Euphony release also contains this same asound.conf file. I've been looking at tuning differences between the two solutions. This is one. Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
hifi25nl Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Can you check the alsa output is not muted with alsamixer option? keyboard M is enabling/disabling output When enabled you should see 00 on green background AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com developer of AudioLinux realtime OS Link to comment
Popular Post hifi25nl Posted April 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2019 For people interested I have a list of differences between Audiolinux/Euphony. Both are based on the same Archlinux base auricgoldfinger and RickyV 2 AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com developer of AudioLinux realtime OS Link to comment
Dutch Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, lmitche said: Did you try this without the Mutec device? I appreciate this is not what you want, but I know at least three people that removed and later sold Mutec USBs after installing NUC/AL endpoints. You may be surprised. I did this same change here yesterday. The result was harsh, so as suggested I lowered real-time priority to standard and ended up with a better result than when I started. Also, the latest Euphony release also contains this same asound.conf file. I've been looking at tuning differences between the two solutions. This is one. Thanks Larry, the removal of the Mutec is something that is indeed on my list to test some day but I have changed so much recently that I’d like to establish a new baseline first. After removing the Mutec the AL NUC -> TX-USBUltra would then connect directly to my Devialet dac/amp. I thought I’d do this ALSA change in between since it looked as an easy quick win. Who needs mixers anyway? Thanks for your efforts in chasing the differences between AL and Euphony! System details Link to comment
Dutch Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, hifi25nl said: Can you check the alsa output is not muted with alsamixer option? keyboard M is enabling/disabling output When enabled you should see 00 on green background Hi Piero, I noticed that when I have the asound.conf file in place the alsamixer option in your menu no longer starts. When I select the option it jumps back to the start of the list. I have no idea why this happens. System details Link to comment
Dutch Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, hifi25nl said: For people interested I have a list of differences between Audiolinux/Euphony. Both are based on the same Archlinux base I think many would like to know/have the list! System details Link to comment
LTG2010 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 hours ago, RickyV said: When reading this I had an idea. Isn't it possible to split/separate/ isolate the two ram banks and use one bank for the OS and the second bank for playback. Don't know Ricky, you can create and partition a ramdisk, but don't think you can seperate the two modules. Might be possible with that new persistent RAM but most likely it will be tied to certain hardware and controllers, pricewise it could be scary. Link to comment
Dutch Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, hifi25nl said: Can you check the alsa output is not muted with alsamixer option? keyboard M is enabling/disabling output When enabled you should see 00 on green background Oh no, my apologies! I think I have solved it, I checked and doublechecked the contents but decided to create the file again using putty from a normal computer (instead of my iPad) and after a reboot it now shows the Mutec end-point and starts the alsamixer option. Is there a way to check though it now bypasses the Mixer? System details Link to comment
hifi25nl Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 It should, as this is in the alsa documentation! Some users have already reported sound differences AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com developer of AudioLinux realtime OS Link to comment
ted_b Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dutch said: I think many would like to know/have the list! +1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Dutch Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, hifi25nl said: It should, as this is in the alsa documentation! Some users have already reported sound differences OK, I’ll trust on it working then but perhaps in the mean time revert this change until I’ve established a new baseline for my system. I thought it was guaranteed to improve SQ but lmitche does indicate in his post above it might need some tuning elsewhere too (in my system I also have the isolated CPU’s option active, so there’s too many variables). I’m not ‘ready for that’ right now. Thank you very much for your quick help Piero! System details Link to comment
auricgoldfinger Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, hifi25nl said: It should, as this is in the alsa documentation! Some users have already reported sound differences Please add this option to the AL menu for those of us who are less technically inclined. rickca 1 Link to comment
Popular Post hifi25nl Posted April 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2019 Since my point of view is personal... I will stick to the facts here. In Euphony most of applications are open source and the base system is very similar to Audiolinux, but with a lot less options. Sound differences can be related only to different configurations, there is not such a thing like an OS that sounds better than another OS, when both are linux and specifically Archlinux...They are also speaking of an "Euphony OS" ... Moreover, it seems that you cannot connect with keyboard and monitor, you cannot interact with the base OS: this is a very big limitation. Also Stylus, as I pointed out in another post, is probably MPD with a different interface that the one used in Cantata for example. The web service is called mpdweb (...) This is a partial summary of differences: 1) Kernel is the same family, but in audiolinux is now 4.19.25-rt16-9-rt-bfq, where Euphony is at 4.18.7-rt5-3-rt-bfqAnother difference could be that audiolinux kernel has NUMA enabled, otherwise CUDA acceleration in HQPlayer will not work 2) Euphony blacklist some modules in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.confblacklist snd_hda_intel blacklist snd-hda-intel blacklist iwlmvm blacklist iwldvm blacklist iwlwifi blacklist bnep blacklist btusb blacklist bluetooth blacklist joydev blacklist mousedev blacklist iTCO_vendor_support blacklist iTCO_wdt blacklist ip_tables blacklist mei_me blacklist intel_rapl blacklist intel_powerclamp Audiolinux will have a menu option to enable/disable some kernel modules. This service is already there but a menu option has not yet been added. You can edit the file manually, but please pay attention to what you do, you could loose keyboard or mouse connection.3) Euphony does not use the special pstate-frequency service but the cpupower service. The result should be the same, since last kernels are using intel pstate as default, but if you want to test it you should disable pstate-frequencysystemctl disable pstate-frequency and enable cpupowersystemctl enable cpupower Configuration is located at /etc/default/cpupower In Euphony this is set togovernor='performance'(without the #) Reboot 4) Realtime manual assignments are very similar to audiolinux Standard (not Extreme). 5) Kernel line has no special parameters. I see only threadirqs, that is useless with realtime kernels, since threaded irqs are enabled by default 6) There is an alsa configuration in /etc/asound.conf with insidepcm.!default { type plug slave.pcm hw } You can try to add this. HQPlayer and MPD are already using alsa directly without mixer. The differences in sound with Roon could be related to the fact Roon is using alsa mixer unless this configuration file is specified. 7) No special ram tmpfs configurations in /etc/fstab, so no special ram assignments for loading music files, excluding the options available on MPD etc. --> No other relevant differences detected. It has to be noted that /etc/resolv.conf is not pointing to Google servers or some other DNS servers but... BigAlMc, ted_b, rickca and 10 others 4 9 AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com developer of AudioLinux realtime OS Link to comment
Dev Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 @hifi25nl thanks. That is of great help. In theory, if we simply replicate Euphony's open source s/w configs in AL and additionally run AL in ramroot mode, we should potentially see increased SQ gains than Euphony. Link to comment
rickca Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 hours ago, davide256 said: Suggestions? Did you install the wpa_supplicant package? Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
lmitche Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, rickca said: Did you install the wpa_supplicant package? And did you substitute the device string in the website example with "wlo2"? Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
nbpf Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 hours ago, vortecjr said: No and no it's not when people put in silly numbers because they don't understand the ramifications of it. BTW the ramifications are that the system becomes unstable, as has been reported here numerous time, and the developer gets numerous complaints. Volumio's settings will naturally differ because Volumio is different than MPD. You said the key word though...it differs "slightly". Notice its doesn't differ grossly from recommended values. BTW Max will certainly give MPD the smarts to decide the best value for these settings rather than rely on guess work from the user. This will make things more efficient where the player can decide what is best based on sample rate and bit rate and not on some fixed value in a configuration file. Volumio does use, among others, MPD ans sets audio_buffer_size "8192" buffer_before_play "10%" instead of the MPD defaults audio_buffer_size "4096" buffer_before_play "10%" in /etc/mpd.conf. This is a minor change that can be very useful also under plain Raspbian for certain platforms. I am fully confident that Max will come up with meaningful MPD upgrades. On the other hand, the two settings and the potential implications of changing their default values by large amounts are well documented in the official MPD documentation. Thus, if users play around with them and run into troubles is their fault. Not a reason to impair the customizability of MPD, in my view. Link to comment
nbpf Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 7 hours ago, vortecjr said: The point of a real time kernel is to process data as it comes in without buffer delays. Besides an asynchronous DAC will pull that data from the player as it sees fit and it doesn't care about how you fill the buffer. The DAC only cares that the buffer has the data it needs, when it needs it. The affects on sound quality are well documented and its called a "dropout". Dropouts resulting from xruns are bad for sound quality No, the point of a RT kernel is to establish a predictable upper bound on latency. It is just a different way of scheduling processes which has nothing to do with buffer delays. Link to comment
austinpop Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, rickca said: Did you install the wpa_supplicant package? And did you grovel on bended knee with the humility required of a supplicant? Superdad 1 My Audio Setup Link to comment
davide256 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, rickca said: Did you install the wpa_supplicant package? That step is MIA from the AL site wifi setup instructions. Help appreciated on how to get and install Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
hifi25nl Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 As root: pacman -S wpa_supplicant davide256 1 AudioLinux --> https://www.audio-linux.com developer of AudioLinux realtime OS Link to comment
davide256 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, lmitche said: And did you substitute the device string in the website example with "wlo2"? yes... thats visible in the earlier screen paste [audiolinux@audiolinux ~]$ touch /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant-wlo2.conf Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
rickca Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, davide256 said: That step is MIA from the AL site wifi setup instructions. Help appreciated on how to get and install I see Piero has already answered you. You may also find this post helpful https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/54933-audiolinux-and-nuc-troubleshooting-and-tuning/?do=findComment&comment=920874 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
lmitche Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, davide256 said: yes... thats visible in the earlier screen paste [audiolinux@audiolinux ~]$ touch /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant-wlo2.conf Sorry, I missed that. Please let us know how it goes. Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
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