Audiolinux Server configurations, Software, Hardware, and Listening Impressions

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Poldi said:

And aren't these "audiophile" PCIe-cards USB 3.0?

https://jcat.eu/featured/usb-card-femto/

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sotm-tx-usbexp-audiophile-pcie-to-usb-audio-card

Hi Poldi,

 

Yes, it looks like the latest versions of these cards support USB 3.

 

I stand corrected.

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, Boomboy said:

I changed to a external hdd in a orico encloser with lps and ghent 360 usb . Nice improvement over my usb stick into my raspberry pi nas . 

Just purchased a nuc .. if all goes well I'm trying AL this weekend .. cant wait to give it a go .

Nice DIY rack  . Are those the Ikea bamboo boards? I have made a similar but wider one, but needs adjusting to this size now after rearranging gear

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, luisma said:

Well it is certainly a deal if you ever plan to use a few more. 

 

BTW what happened to some project of aggregating several LPS 1.2? I remember were serial connected to provide more voltage right? 

 

Sure. Anyone can hook the outputs of the “floating” UltraCap units in series, +/-/+/-, and get all sorts of voltage combinations. And you can even tap off of a series chain individually to get whatever that unit is set to.  For example, let’s say you have two units in series, one set to 9V, the other to 12V—giving you 19V. At the same time you could tap them each for 9V and 12V, thereby getting 3 voltages from just 2 units.

Of course current usage needs to stay within the 1.1A limit of each (and no, paralleling for more current is not really possible as it would require very close hand-matching output voltages between boards—not a service I offer).

 

Ghent Audio even sells a nice Oyaide/Canare “Y” cable wired in series especially for our UltraCap units: http://ghentaudio.com/part/dc19.html

 

 

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

9V, the other to 12V—giving you 19V

21?

[Superdad]

18 hours ago, lmitche said:

21?

Oops. Meant example to be 7V & 12V.  But any combination is possible. 

[Poldi]

VESA Mount and Sound Quality?

 

As the NUCs in the Akasa Cases can be VESA-mounted behind monitors or TVs do you guys think this could degrade sound quality because of noise coming from the monitor/TV?

Or does the aluminium case offer enough protection?

 

It would be quite handy if I could make these boxes "disappear" behind my screens. This would boost wife-compability of these boxes enormously in my case...

[Dutch]

Just as an FYI for those who like to sniff up bits and pieces of information coming from commercial streaming server builders. There’s some interesting details shared regarding the component choices of the new 20k€ SGM Extreme server in this topic here: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/

[Dutch]

6 hours ago, Poldi said:

VESA Mount and Sound Quality?

 

As the NUCs in the Akasa Cases can be VESA-mounted behind monitors or TVs do you guys think this could degrade sound quality because of noise coming from the monitor/TV?

Or does the aluminium case offer enough protection?

 

It would be quite handy if I could make these boxes "disappear" behind my screens. This would boost wife-compability of these boxes enormously in my case...

 

Hard to say since RFI/EMI is invisible and different in any situation. Besides the aluminium case of the NUC there’s also the cables connected to it which could be affected. Personally I wouldn’t do it but that’s just to be ‘on the safe side’. Just try it, if you don’t hear any negative effects why wouldn’t you.

[Ben-M]

I wanted to ask in here first before starting my own thread for an AudioLinux Server. 

 

I use Roon and have a RoonCore running on ROCK on a NUC7i7DNKE. I have a Fidelizer Nimitra as an endpoint (not only because I like it and their customer support is #1), but because my T+A DAC 8 DSD can only receive DSD512 via a Windows computer, severly limiting my choice of endpoints. Now I'm looking to add a dedicated "music server" to simply house the music on my network. The server will need to have 2 functions, #1 is to house the music on my music network (a copy) and be accessible to the network for Roon, and #2 is to occasionally update/copy files over the internet from my main home media server that is located in another building. I already own all the hardware and drives, so I'm not losing anything on the investment here besides my choice of OS.

 

I was thinking to make the server OS be AudioLinux, but in the brief look I've had with AL, it's not that far from running via commandline ( 😉 ) and I'm not sure how to make the drives viewable on the network by my RoonCore. Then after that, I have no idea how the drives/folder could be synced with my home media server's music folder.

 

Can anyone let me know what I should be doing here and if they agree about what I'm thinking?

[LTG2010]

2 hours ago, Ben-M said:

Can anyone let me know what I should be doing here and if they agree about what I'm thinking?

Agree, but you could also try the NUC as endpoint and Nimitra as server and compare the 2. The good thing is that you don't need to remove your current OS from the machine just boot from a USB stick into audiolinux. Ramboot is also essential IMO.

The other good thing is that Piero has automatic scripts for mounting local and remote drives in the audiolinux menu, so you don't have to go back to Linux 'school' like most of us originally had to do :).

 

 

[bobfa]

8 hours ago, Ben-M said:

I wanted to ask in here first before starting my own thread for an AudioLinux Server. 

 

You are headed down a fun path.  Do not stress there is a lot of help out here.  There is an AL server thread that may cover what you need.  Sometimes it is hard to find stuff around here. I have gotten "lost" a couple of times.

 

[Ben-M]

20 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

Agree, but you could also try the NUC as endpoint and Nimitra as server and compare the 2. The good thing is that you don't need to remove your current OS from the machine just boot from a USB stick into audiolinux. Ramboot is also essential IMO.

The other good thing is that Piero has automatic scripts for mounting local and remote drives in the audiolinux menu, so you don't have to go back to Linux 'school' like most of us originally had to do :).

 

 

I see what you mean, but there are 2 issues:

1. The NUC is currently deployed as my RoonCore, and it has no Windows OS, so if I were to use it as an endpoint, I'd have to download a trial of Windows or buy a license. 

- If you meant to deploy the NUC as an endpoint running AL, as per the configuration that's highly rated here, then see #2.

 

2. My DAC (T+A DAC 8 DSD) can only receive DSD512 via a Windows PC due to its generation of Amanero USB board. It cannot receive DSD512 via Linux, so AL is out until some later time that the DAC may be updated to do so.

- Although I agree that I haven't tested the DAC 8 DSD with AL, I have tested it with several other configurations to see how it sounds best. So far, it's when the DAC is playing DSD512, and that means I've got to use a Windows PC as the last lag of the chain. 

 

Regarding the scripts, that's very good news. Do you have any links to those of is there are Read Me somewhere? On that note, does anyone know of an updating software that could run so that the files can be updated from my home media server to the AL music server/folder? They're not in the same building, so there's got to be some networkery involved.

[LTG2010]

5 hours ago, Ben-M said:

Regarding the scripts, that's very good news. Do you have any links to those of is there are Read Me somewhere?

@rickca's thread on audiolinux & NUC troubleshooting and tuning is a good place to start, (best to ask your setup questions there) with @austinpop's summary at the top and tips on first page. Also @greenleo posted his setup guides on the third page onwards. @bobfa has a good thread on an NUC setup/install.

The scripts are embedded in the software, take a look on the audiolinux website on the left hand column, you will see the 4 configuration menu's, where you can start and enable roonserver, mount your drives, enable ramboot etc.. You can access remotely I use putty and log in as root with WinSCP. You can also update automatically from the configuration menu.

http://www.audio-linux.com/

In my setup the endpoint is 60% of the sound (others might say 80%) in either case its definitely worth trying audiolinux with your server first. Once you have the audiolinux USB key then its should be easy to test your endpoint with roonbridge, or you can also test as a one box roonserver direct to dac, that would give you a better picture of what to expect, Piero would be the contact regarding your DAC's compatibility issues.

[ronfint]

8 hours ago, Ben-M said:

2. My DAC (T+A DAC 8 DSD) can only receive DSD512 via a Windows PC due to its generation of Amanero USB board. It cannot receive DSD512 via Linux, so AL is out until some later time that the DAC may be updated to do so.

 

My Lampizator dac is running Amanero F/W 2002b, and it does DSD512 flawlessly from Linux (sms200 ultra). So changing your firmware mght do what you want.

[Ben-M]

3 hours ago, ronfint said:

 

My Lampizator dac is running Amanero F/W 2002b, and it does DSD512 flawlessly from Linux (sms200 ultra). So changing your firmware mght do what you want.

I followed the development of the firmwares to resolve the incompatibility issues, but the 2002b version doesn't have any Windows compatibility. Ideally, I need both. 

 

Anyway, last I read about 2002b was that Linux compatibility at DSD512 was pretty good, but there were still people reporting clicks, pops, and dropouts intermittently. That's 100% not the case for you? 

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but do you have any further news on the Amanero firmware update process? I mean, any further details since about 3 months ago?

[Ben-M]

6 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

@rickca's thread on audiolinux & NUC troubleshooting and tuning is a good place to start, (best to ask your setup questions there) with @austinpop's summary at the top and tips on first page. Also @greenleo posted his setup guides on the third page onwards. @bobfa has a good thread on an NUC setup/install.

The scripts are embedded in the software, take a look on the audiolinux website on the left hand column, you will see the 4 configuration menu's, where you can start and enable roonserver, mount your drives, enable ramboot etc.. You can access remotely I use putty and log in as root with WinSCP. You can also update automatically from the configuration menu.

http://www.audio-linux.com/

In my setup the endpoint is 60% of the sound (others might say 80%) in either case its definitely worth trying audiolinux with your server first. Once you have the audiolinux USB key then its should be easy to test your endpoint with roonbridge, or you can also test as a one box roonserver direct to dac, that would give you a better picture of what to expect, Piero would be the contact regarding your DAC's compatibility issues.

Thanks for all that. I'll see how I can move ahead with getting Audiolinux on a USB first, running the server, mounting the drives, and finding them on the network with Roon. 

 

As for the DAC, you'll see just above that it's not exactly a DAC specific problem, it's that my DAC (like the Lampizators) happens to use a certain version of the Amanero USB input and that version is not compatible with Linux kernel at DSD512 (which happens to be my DAC's preferred input rate). Work on the issue has been ongoing for 1-2 years, but only about 3 months ago did some somewhat viable firmware come out. Since then, I haven't heard of any more developments where we got to a purely stable and fully compatible release. And in my DAC's case, because the Amanero USB board is actually integrated into the overall motherboard and not meant to be owner serviceable, it requires a combo hardware and software hack to reflash it. And once flashed, it can't be returned to the manufacturer's firmware, but it could be reflashed with the equivalent, older Amanero one. Just FYI.

 

Anyway, so I will follow what you listed and move ahead with the clear steps first. Thanks for that. 

[ronfint]

41 minutes ago, Ben-M said:

I followed the development of the firmwares to resolve the incompatibility issues, but the 2002b version doesn't have any Windows compatibility. Ideally, I need both. 

 

Anyway, last I read about 2002b was that Linux compatibility at DSD512 was pretty good, but there were still people reporting clicks, pops, and dropouts intermittently. That's 100% not the case for you? 

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but do you have any further news on the Amanero firmware update process? I mean, any further details since about 3 months ago?

Not 100%, but maybe 95-98%, whatever that means. There is sometimes a click at the start of an album, and maybe a tic every so often, but nothing I can't live with. (After all, I was raised on vinyl.) You are correct concerning Windows compatibility. My DAC's datasheet only specifies DSD128 for Windows.

 

I'm sorry I haven't followed the Amanero firmware drama any further than 2002b, which came with my DAC.

[Ben-M]

On 2/27/2019 at 12:58 PM, Ben-M said:

[.../] does anyone know of an updating software that could run so that the files can be updated from my home media server to the Audiolinux music server/folder? They're not in the same building, so there's got to be some networkery involved.

2

 

Looks liked I've got a lead on this and the walk-thriugh even mimics my situation where my home server is a Windows Server based machine and the Music server is located at a different site and is a Linux (Audiolinux) based machine.

syncing-a-music-library

 

Unfortunately, I have some travel coming up, so after that, I'll look at installing AL on the machine, mounting the drives, and then finally looking at installing the sync software.

[Ben-M]

On 2/28/2019 at 1:56 AM, ronfint said:

Not 100%, but maybe 95-98%, whatever that means. There is sometimes a click at the start of an album, and maybe a tic every so often, but nothing I can't live with. (After all, I was raised on vinyl.) You are correct concerning Windows compatibility. My DAC's datasheet only specifies DSD128 for Windows.

 

I'm sorry I haven't followed the Amanero firmware drama any further than 2002b, which came with my DAC.

I really appreciate your feedback on all that. I think the cost of a few clicks here and there are worth it if you figure the sound quality and the experience with a Linux based device to connect your DAC to are better than before.

 

I will see what else I can push into or dig up on the firmware point, then figure out after I have the server up and running whether I want to consider the move over to using that NUC as an endpoint and repurposing my Nimitra as the RoonCore Server.

 

According to Fidelizer, this is also what he recommends, but I'm a bit suspect on it due to the NUC7i7DNKE being able to run Roon ROCK, be an appliance, and just do its job, and the Nimitra already being an optimized unit to use as an endpoint. I know I'm confusing "value" there with "quality", but there really is something to be said for simplifying things and getting in more time with the music, or with your family. 

 

I've spent the past 3 weeks migrating my music collection back onto a single drive, editing folder names, finding duplicates, and looking for "empty upsamples". Using Bulk Rename Utility, CCleaner for finding duplicates, Xivero MusicScope, and MusicBrainz Picard really do help, but it's still a huge time suck and I believe my family thinks I've died or taken up some illicit habits...

[tapatrick]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:20 AM, Ben-M said:

and I believe my family thinks I've died or taken up some illicit habits...

... !!!

[mourip]

I am currently using Windows 10 Pro with Audiophile Optimizer to run Roon Core. I boot from an SSD and have a second SSD for my music files. My endpoint runs AL on a NUC with no internal drives. The sound is great.

 

Curiosity, as always, has gotten the best of me and I would like to try AL running Roon Core. My main concern is that I do not overwrite my current Windows setup. I know that in the past when I installed Roon Core then during the Roon desktop config wanted to reformat the music drive. If I boot to AL from a thumb drive, run Roon Core and next configure AL to mount my music drive, then when I go to run the Roon app and point to that drive, will Roon want to wipe it? I think that I read somewhere that if you are using a USB external drive then Roon will not reformat it. True?

 

Any tips?

[lmitche]

14 minutes ago, mourip said:

I am currently using Windows 10 Pro with Audiophile Optimizer to run Roon Core. I boot from an SSD and have a second SSD for my music files. My endpoint runs AL on a NUC with no internal drives. The sound is great.

 

Curiosity, as always, has gotten the best of me and I would like to try AL running Roon Core. My main concern is that I do not overwrite my current Windows setup. I know that in the past when I installed Roon Core then during the Roon desktop config wanted to reformat the music drive. If I boot to AL from a thumb drive, run Roon Core and next configure AL to mount my music drive, then when I go to run the Roon app and point to that drive, will Roon want to wipe it? I think that I read somewhere that if you are using a USB external drive then Roon will not reformat it. True?

 

Any tips?

Hi Mourip,

 

If you are running headless AL  just make sure you mount the music drive prior trying to add the storage device to Roon. You can do this on a temporary basis with the mount command. Once done Roon will see the drive and build a Roon database on the USB stick, or ramdisk, from the drive contents. This could take a while. If you ramboot full drive indexing will happen every time you boot until you save to the stick or some other media.

 

Remember to disconnect power to your ssds before booting from the USB stick to hear the full benefits of a flash free system.

 

Larry

[lmitche]

49 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Hi Mourip,

 

If you are running headless AL  just make sure you mount the music drive prior trying to add the storage device to Roon. You can do this on a temporary basis with the mount command. Once done Roon will see the drive and build a Roon database on the USB stick, or ramdisk, from the drive contents. This could take a while. If you ramboot full drive indexing will happen every time you boot until you save to the stick or some other media.

 

Remember to disconnect power to your ssds before booting from the USB stick to hear the full benefits of a flash free system.

 

Larry

BTW, I have never seen Roon offer to format a drive. Perhaps that is because I always point Roon at a populated music drive.

 

 

[bibo01]

A little while ago there was talks about having, together with RAM AL OS on USB stick, a M2 NVMe for saving Roon database.

To be honest, I am not sure if people were talking about Intel Optane...I am a little bit confused about different technologies: Optane, M2 SSD, M2 NVMe, ecc.

Anyhow, what is the solution agreed upon? Would it work for AMD based too? Any particular model?

Thanks 

[bobfa]

33 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

A little while ago therewastalks about having, together with RAM AL OS on USB stick, a M2 NVMe for saving Roon database.

To be honest, I am not sure if people were talking about Intel Optane...I am a little bit confused about different technologies: Optane, M2 SSD, M2 NVMe, ecc.

Anyhow, what is the solution agreed upon? Would it work for AMD based too? Any particular model?

Thanks 

Many of us have been using Optane for boot and database storage on audio servers.  I have been testing it in two servers that I built.   I am also looking at it for storage in endpoints where we have been using USB sticks.  The goal there is to see if there is an audible difference to eliminate the USB stick reboot issue.  Most of the testing done so far appears to support that running AL in RAM improves audio quality.

 

From the little research I had time to do there are AMD boards that can use Optane as storage but not as hard drive cache. 

 

 I did a little blog post about this stuff.  Thanks for the idea!  I am behind on these.