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lasker98

Objectivists/Subjectivists

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9 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

OK then...

Thanks for your positive contribution. Always good to know what I'm dealing with.

 

You're welcome. Now, shouldn't that be:

 

"It's always good to know who I'm dealing with."

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34 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

And thanks for helping make my point.

 

You made your own point when you got booted from the forum and then came back and corrected spelling. That's what makes you an "Objectionable Subjectivist".

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11 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Last time I conducted a blind listening test with 4 USB cables, 2 people could name the cables 5 out of 5 times with random cable swapping. Even when I tried to trick them and kept the same cable in twice they knew I didn't swap it. 

 

what DAC & etc. did you use?

 

or if you wrote it up, is there a link?


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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29 minutes ago, diecaster said:

You made your own point when you got booted from the forum and then came back and corrected spelling. That's what makes you an "Objectionable Subjectivist".

And that's what makes you a "what" instead of a "whom".

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3 hours ago, esldude said:

Names and details or it's just anecdotal bs. 

The names and details any further than what I’ve shared is irrelevant. They conducted these tests for internal education. Not to convince a handful of forum objectivists. Because no amount of evidence that is counter to your agenda will be acceptable for you guys. 

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45 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

what DAC & etc. did you use?

 

or if you wrote it up, is there a link?

It was a Mivera Audio Purestream MK1. The designer admits that the USB interface does not have any isolation measures, as it was designed to be used with his low noise fibre optic isolated streamer. The isolation was handled on that end. However his upcoming Purestream MK2 has a new cutting edge USB conditioner section he claims to be the first to implement in the industry. Time will tell if it’s effective enough to make the difference between USB cables inaudible. 

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Thx - I am always curious about USB details in the DAC


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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11 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said:

There's actually real differences between some gear that simple Audio Precision tests don't pick up on.

 

The design team for the LME49710A opamp found this too. They could hear clear differences in favour of the metal can LME49710HA that their AP gear did not show. Audioman 54 (Mark) who was one of the team reported this in DIY Audio.


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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13 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

The design team for the LME49710A opamp found this too. They could hear clear differences in favour of the metal can LME49710HA that their AP gear did not show. Audioman 54 (Mark) who was one of the team reported this in DIY Audio.

But Amir from ASR has already proven that all opamps sound the same without listening to them. He must know more than even the real engineers who design them. 

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12 hours ago, Taz777 said:

I think the whole has to be considered rather than the graphs and charts for one specific component. If the whole feels good then does anything else really matter?

 

For me there is a tipping point when the music I feel is simply marvellous. That could be with a length of wet string or a component that is so technically competent that it challenges the measuring equipment.

 

But that takes the fun out of "playing with gear", n'est-ce pas? What's the point of listening to recordings, when it's far more satisfying juggling and judging components and accessories ... ^_^.

 

Yes, the tipping point is when the music feels simply marvellous, to listen to. How do you know the rig is at that point ... ummm, when the "music feels simply marvellous" ... ... the measurements mean sweet bugger all, unless that's happening, :).


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

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The people who constantly object in part do so because they need to feel that they have the business of getting an audio rig working well completely under control - they're in command, and not subject to the eccentricities of the particular pieces of gear ... umm, down the track full characterisation of a system's capability will be available to peruse, but we are nowhere near that sort of understanding, as yet.

 

Interesting encounter yesterday. Busker, again, at the shopping centre - one chap; cool jazz, cornet(?) plus vocals, no PA!!; very skilled. And he had some backing filler going, which blended nicely; its volume suited the live content - and it was, a 3 Coke can assembly, lying on the ground: one can for each side, the third added the bass oomph ... now, if only some audiophile rigs could do the sound that good, :P.


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

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6 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 you'll find that Amir doesn't claim any conclusions about audibility of the devices he measures.

 That is not correct. His conclusions are not borne out by the experiences of numerous C.A. members .

 He is no better in this respect than several qualified C.A. members who regularly try to put down subjective reports to the contrary.

 

Quote

2. I have hugely magnified these differences. Without this magnification, the differences even with lousy DACs like Schiit are literally in the noise.

So nothing here explains the fantastical subjective differences people report between USB cables. I suggest those people conduct some blind test to get to the truth of whether they are hearing any differences especially if they are using better DACs than Schiit Modi 2.

 

 


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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1 hour ago, Music Enthusiast said:

The names and details any further than what I’ve shared is irrelevant. They conducted these tests for internal education. Not to convince a handful of forum objectivists. Because no amount of evidence that is counter to your agenda will be acceptable for you guys. 

With respect if you cite evidence you have to be expected to be called on it unless you are only trying to convince yourself.

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18 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Are you sure?  If you read ASR at all,  you'll find that Amir doesn't claim any conclusions about audibility of the devices he measures. He reports the measurements. And yes, sometimes the engineers that designed a component are surprised by what he finds, and sometimes they even fix a previously undiscovered problem based on this. Is this really so bad for us, the consumers? Would you rather nobody ever try to validate the design, just put blind trust in the manufacturer?

 

 

Yes but he does make recommendations about purchasing based on measurement without listening apparently

 

" Should you run and buy these short cables/adapters? No, you shouldn't "

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6 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Yes but he does make recommendations about purchasing based on measurement without listening apparently

 

" Should you run and buy these short cables/adapters? No, you shouldn't "

 

But he didn’t say that you shouldn’t walk and buy it, now did he? ;)

 

Again, any color commentary from Amir is just that. His opinion. Maybe worth just a bit more than dime a dozen. His measurements are invaluable, OTOH.

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The claim that "Objectivists" (who decides that anyway?  a taxonomist?) do not perform listening tests or comparisons is unsupported by any evidence.

 

I hope you can hang around long enough to back it up with data...

 

Now what may well happen (supposition) is that someone may use measurement data to filter thru a large number of equipment models, manfs. to get a smaller subset.  I would certainly do that, if I could figure out what measurements really really matter.  (e.g. if an amp has noise levels that are merely "respectable" but is advertised as ultra-low noise by the manf. then maybe I should skip it; OTOH if it is not real spendy and offers a return privilege then maybe I'll go ahead and listen to it...).  See how I use multiple factors to screen thru a large population of gear?  I assume others do so also...


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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42 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Chris has banned my home IP address. Signed in with my phone. Guess I’m making far too much sense to be a part of this forum. 

You've kinda sorta indicated you have commercial interests in a DAC. You should identify your specific commercial ties in your sig.


Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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