Popular Post Thomas savage Posted December 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2018 Having been on both sides or at least observed both side of this rather ridiculous self imposed division Iv come to this conclusion.. the Internet fosters dual narratives / binary debate that otherwise might not take hold so vigorously. You can see this base reactionary dynamic all over the Internet, people have been given a voice online and simply get very used to secluding that voice from questioning forces. On audiophile forums this tends to mean two groups of self affirming people’s. You have those that want to express their listening thoughts unencumbered by challenging voices, they might want to make up their own logic mechanisms to ratify their experiences . I see this as a kind of creative almost artistic undertaking where people can just express themselves without let or hinderance. This wave of freedom is seductive and many will defend it even when this might push the debate to quite fantastical areas of complete nonsense that they otherwise would never do. Through protecting this new license they often can become uncharacteristicly illogical. The defence of this ‘free thought’ tends to mean disregarding and mistrusting knowledge as “how can it be true when my intuition and listening experience say to me it’s not”.. this path is the easiest place to walk, Iv done it and it’s great. It’s a fantastic self affirming bubble that requires no entrance exam or effort and buys you into the audiophile club as your fellow audiophile will gain mutual affirmation from you so your very welcome. I think it’s call enabling. Then theres these really annoying people that come along just as your in mid flow describing how you’re so happy with your new power conditioner and just how it all works in your mind and how this is all backed up by your listening impressions they come along quite uninvited and start telling you your wrong . This is unpleasant, generally though it’s ok as your online buddies will back you up and chase them away. Hopefully to hydrogen audio , like who wants to go to that den of kill joys anyway. Meanwhile your left knowing somewhere your lacking in real knowledge but who wants to admit that anyway, it’s probably the case Science is yet to understand hearing and your ideas are just as valid as theirs .. we have a break down , a breakdown in the respect for knowledge and a breakdown in communication as being online we are missing many facets involved in real world interactions and we live in a bizarre world where traditional pillars of knowledge compete with the self affirmed on the Internet. It’s all a bit of a mess. What we need is both sides ( just playing along with the self imposed definitions here) to make room for that feeling they get when they get irked out of their comfort zone and try and drop the typical defensive reactions that cause all this tension . The objectivists need to stop assuming everyone needs to know they are wrong and feel it’s their duty to take it on themselves to say so at every opportunity. In turn the so called subjectivist need to make room for that fact they might be ignorant and instead of taking offence look at it as a opportunity to explore another way and maybe go and see if there’s something to what these grumpy guys are saying. Not all objectivists are wise, many are just as guilty of ignorance as anyone else but ime they are more willing to face that ignorance down and be challenged in a respectful and civilised manner. please try and coexist here at computer audiophile, cut each other some room it’s not like anyone’s stealing your Mrs it’s just a Audio forum . If you don’t manage this the hobby and to a degree all of you will be poorer for it. Well done if you got through all that ha ha and if you did thanks for reading . BW Thomas Taz777, RickyV, pkane2001 and 6 others 3 6 Link to comment
Popular Post Thomas savage Posted December 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2018 38 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said: You're also suggesting that self proclaimed objectivists who lurk on Internet forums are actually knowledgable. Not the case. Most objectivists who have anything worthwhile to offer avoid forums like the plague. One thing the subjectivists have on them is they do have the ability to accurately describe what their senses are telling them. Whether or not some of it may be placebo based. If that particular product becomes a success partly due to placebo effect, then that product is a success either way. If it brings joy to the person who paid for it, then no harm was done. Job well done by the designer. Mission accomplished. 50 minutes ago, Thomas savage said: Not all objectivists are wise, many are just as guilty of ignorance as anyone else but ime they are more willing to face that ignorance down and be challenged in a respectful and civilised manner. Reason is a fair aspersion, and there are many out there that exploit people’s ignorance for profit. Hugo9000, wgscott and Ralf11 1 1 1 Link to comment
Thomas savage Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 50 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said: You are suggesting a balanced viewpoint to folks who have been taught by society from the day they were born that the world is either black or white. Hard to teach old dogs new tricks. 8 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said: Your entire post is filled with undertones that the objectivists are correct, and the subjectivist's have closed minds. And as a moderator of an objectivist forum, it's no surprise. However the areas you guys lack understanding is that if the product sells and makes the people who buy it happy, and it doesn't burn down your house, the company who made it was successful. No matter what formula this success was derived from. The knowledge to be able to accomplish this can not be found from learning how to run an Audio Precision audio analysis device. Well I think these two are conflicting statements, one written without prejudice and then later contradicted ( with a edit) when you made a ‘discovery ‘ . This serves to highlight the depth of the issue , my post actually documents my own experience as a independent minded person . You could call the whole thing subjective. Let’s hope the natives back at base done burn me on a stake. anyway I’m done , I just thought I’d try and highlight some of the issues and hopefully encourage you all to stay as one , objectivists and subjectivist. My bad. Link to comment
Thomas savage Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Ha ha , so let’s turn this around and get some sensible discourse,, ah let’s turn it into a cable thread coz that’ll do it. I fairly sure even now if I had to listen to my system connected via usb using a cheap looking cable vs a nice chunky expensive one it would sound better with the later. I might even feel ‘safer’ and my anxiety levels may well be reduced ( certainly 2 or 3 years ago) and that’s without having bought in to the ‘science ‘ of the manufacturer. So I know it shouldn’t make a difference but it still dose.., But how can this be....? .... maybe something else , something to do with visual association informing auditory perception maybe ..? Maybe this is how tv marketing works too, maybe this is a powerful mechanism of prejudice, let’s cut out the visual and see just what happens when we separate these senses. Or lets not and just assume its the cable , let’s not look any further after all I trust my ears , but then do I trust them in combination with my eyes , ah sod it I know what I know god damn it. The cable is making a diffrence i dont care what the tests say, they don’t know what I’m hearing , they are not me . Link to comment
Thomas savage Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Taz777 said: I think the whole has to be considered rather than the graphs and charts for one specific component. If the whole feels good then does anything else really matter? For me there is a tipping point when the music I feel is simply marvellous. That could be with a length of wet string or a component that is so technically competent that it challenges the measuring equipment. I just listen to music these days , I wonder about room correction now and then ( I do use something with my subwoofers but not the mains ) but other than that I don’t worry and Iv not changed anything in my main listening room for 3 or 4 years now. I chose all my kit by evaluating it at home , not a process I ever enjoyed as all I wanted was to hear music that sounded ‘right’ to me. If you paid 2 grand for that bit of string and were sold it on the belief it was ‘the best thing’ despite you being happy I’d suggest maybe it would be worth looking into. Still id love to have my stuff measured , just to see just what’s really going on. Are those products I bought really performing to spec etc. To me I’m part of the system and I can be faulty just like a amp to some degree. Link to comment
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