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Sonore opticalRendu

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23 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

So an opticalRendu with an RJ45 SFP WILL be better than an ultraRendu fed by the same Ethernet cable, the opticalRendu fed by an optical signal is significantly better.

 

 

The question I think many will ask is whether to keep your ultraRendu and add the etherRegen, or upgrade to the opticalRendu ?

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1 hour ago, vortecjr said:

Sure. Have a look at the post above with the tips.

 

Thanks. These tips?

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/55217-sonore-opticalrendu/?do=findComment&comment=910984

 

This is a bit different to what I’m asking. I’m not asking about the correct SFP module to pair with the opticalModule - but pairing with a single FMC unit itself (like a single TP-Link MC200CM for example).

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3 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks. These tips?

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/55217-sonore-opticalrendu/?do=findComment&comment=910984

 

This is a bit different to what I’m asking. I’m not asking about the correct SFP module to pair with the opticalModule - but pairing with a single FMC unit itself (like a single TP-Link MC200CM for example).

It's exactly what you are asking. Refer to the note at the bottom:

 

Note: Some fiber optic network gear support direct optical output without a SFP module. With this gear the fiber optic cable connects directly to the network gear. That gear will have specified formats and you should match the SFP modules on the opticalRendu to it. In addition you need the correct cable to make the conversion. 

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5 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

It's exactly what you are asking. Refer to the note at the bottom:

 

Note: Some fiber optic network gear support direct optical output without a SFP module. With this gear the fiber optic cable connects directly to the network gear. That gear will have specified formats and you should match the SFP modules on the opticalRendu to it. In addition you need the correct cable to make the conversion. 

 

Noted. So it’s just SFP module and fiber cable that needs to match properly. The “rest” of the FMC (like for the TP-Link MC200CM ) doesn’t matter. That’s what I’m asking about.

 

Clearer now.

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3 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Noted. So it’s just SFP module and fiber cable that needs to match properly. The “rest” of the FMC (like for the TP-Link MC200CM ) doesn’t matter. That’s what I’m asking about.

 

Clearer now.

If the TP-Link is multi-mode then get a multi-mode SFP...

The cables naturally need to fit in the corresponding ends. 

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10 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

If the TP-Link is multi-mode then get a multi-mode SFP...

The cables naturally need to fit in the corresponding ends. 

 

Lol, it’s all good. I already have a pair of TP-Link FMC’s working...

 

I just wasn’t aware you could have a single unit directly talking to the opticalModule. I thought they could only talk to each other in pairs, due to circuitry other than the SFP module and cable.

 

 Everything is clearer now.

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1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

 

Lol, it’s all good. I already have a pair of TP-Link FMC’s working...

 

I just wasn’t aware you could have a single unit directly talking to the opticalModule. I thought they could only talk to each other in pairs, due to circuitry other than the SFP module and cable.

 

 Everything is clearer now.

If they don't work then we will not list them as systemOptique compatible:) 

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On FS.com there are a section regarding the need to atteunate a signal from a LX SFP if the distance is short.

 

"Generally, multimode systems do not need attenuators as the multimode sources, VCSELs, rarely have enough power output to saturate receivers. Instead, single-mode systems, especially short links, often have too much power and need attenuators."

 

https://community.fs.com/blog/guideline-for-fixed-fiber-optic-attenuator.html

 

 

 


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC
-> Uptone etherREGEN ->  dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The SFP cage side of the SFP module is standardized, same physical, same electrical and same protocol. The part where you plug in the fiber can be different.

 

There are two common wavelengths, usually referenced as SX and LX. There are two different types of fiber: single mode and multi mode.

 

So any optical SFP module will work with any SFP cage designed for optical use (which is pretty much all of them). You DO have to match the fiber side. Use an SX to SX, LX to LX, single mode to single mode and multimode to multi mode. If you have an SFP cage on both sides, its easy just use the same model SFP module on both sides and use a cable that matches. If one side is an FMC with a built in optical interface (ie NO SFP cage), you need to find out what it is and get an SFP module that matches.

 

As to which of these combinations sound better, who knows. But be careful, LX is designed for much longer range, but that doesn't mean it is going to sound better between two boxes in the same rack. There are some people that think LX is actually bad for very short lenghts, the electronics are designed assuming a lot of attenuation due to the long fiber length, with a short cable that does not exist and are probably putting the receivers in a state they were not designed for. It may or may not make any difference, I have not spent any time comparing different combinations, other than do they WORK.

 

John S.

Thanks John...more posts for Alex’s collection of great posts:)

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4 hours ago, octaviars said:

On FS.com there are a section regarding the need to atteunate a signal from a LX SFP if the distance is short.

 

"Generally, multimode systems do not need attenuators as the multimode sources, VCSELs, rarely have enough power output to saturate receivers. Instead, single-mode systems, especially short links, often have too much power and need attenuators."

 

https://community.fs.com/blog/guideline-for-fixed-fiber-optic-attenuator.html

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this...very helpful.

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2 hours ago, Summit said:

Is it possible to get my ultraRenu modified to an opticalRendu for a reasonable cost, if I wanted it?

We are considering it. However, be tween shipping, labor, cost of parts, and not much in common between them it’s going to be hard. 

 

Consider adding an opticalModule to the ultraRendu’s network.

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1 hour ago, vortecjr said:

Thanks for posting this...very helpful.

 

No worries.

 

I started looking at the specs on different SFP modules after @JohnSwenson pointed it out that it might be a problem with LX modules over short distances. I have bought stuff from FS.com and when I look at their SFP modules it seems that LX modules up to 10km distanses have max -3dBm output and max -3dBm input but looking at LX modules with 20km or 40km or higher often have for example max 0dBm or 5dBm output and still max -3dBm input so they relay on losses in the cable and connectors to not overload the input. A attenuator needs to be inserted before the input if the signal is to high.

 

Using multimode SFP will perhaps be the safer way if you dont know what type to use as that will not cause any problem with short cables in a regulare home situation.

 

I know there is a thread here on CA either in Lumin section or it might be another thread regarding FMC that there was some talk about what type of SFP and cables to use.

 


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC
-> Uptone etherREGEN ->  dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

No worries.

 

I started looking at the specs on different SFP modules after @JohnSwenson pointed it out that it might be a problem with LX modules over short distances. I have bought stuff from FS.com and when I look at their SFP modules it seems that LX modules up to 10km distanses have max -3dBm output and max -3dBm input but looking at LX modules with 20km or 40km or higher often have for example max 0dBm or 5dBm output and still max -3dBm input so they relay on losses in the cable and connectors to not overload the input. A attenuator needs to be inserted before the input if the signal is to high.

 

Using multimode SFP will perhaps be the safer way if you dont know what type to use as that will not cause any problem with short cables in a regulare home situation.

 

I know there is a thread here on CA either in Lumin section or it might be another thread regarding FMC that there was some talk about what type of SFP and cables to use.

 

 

You are right. Just take care of Transceiver Output and max/overload SFP receiver level.

Keep in mind the losses range for monomode fibers:

  • 0.4 dB per kilometer
  • 0.4 dB insertion loss (LC-LC)

In other words, in home application do not expect to have significant losses with typical cable length.

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6 minutes ago, Arpiben said:

Keep in mind the losses range for monomode fibers:

  • 0.4 dB per kilometer
  • 0.4 dB insertion loss (LC-LC)

 

No losses over shorter cables can be ignored in this case.

 

So a -3dBm output and 0.4 dB loss in the connectors will set down the signal to -3.4dB and thus it shoud be safe with a -3dBm input.

 

When I looked at FS.com the SFP modules I have it had a range from -9dBm to -3dBm output how will it lower the output?


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC
-> Uptone etherREGEN ->  dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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42 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

LX modules are off the table then:)

 

All depends on the spec on the SFP module. For example if you compare a SX to a LX module the spec regarding output power is the same.

 

SFP1G-SX-31 have -9 to -3dBm output and max -3dBm input. 1310nm FP laser transmitter. 1km Reach for 50/125μm. 550m Reach for 62.5/125μm. Operating data rate up to1.25Gbps.

 

SFP1G-LX-31 have -9 to -3dBm output and max -3dBm input. 1310nm FP laser transmitter. 10km with 9/125 μm SMF. Operating Data Rate up to 1.25Gbps

 

As I see it in this case the only thing that makes the LX transmit over a longer distance with the same power is the use of single mode fiber.

 

 


Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC
-> Uptone etherREGEN ->  dCS Network bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree

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7 hours ago, vortecjr said:

We are considering it. However, be tween shipping, labor, cost of parts, and not much in common between them it’s going to be hard. 

 

Consider adding an opticalModule to the ultraRendu’s network.

 

I see. I’m not really considering getting two more boxes and PSUs for them just to get fibre, I already have too many boxes.

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17 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

I see. I’m not really considering getting two more boxes and PSUs for them just to get fibre, I already have too many boxes.

 

Same for me.

I am not interested at all to go the "fiber" path.

I hope that the Ultrarendu will get some upgrade next year.

 

Matt

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21 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

I see. I’m not really considering getting two more boxes and PSUs for them just to get fibre, I already have too many boxes.

In my case it doesn't add any new boxes. I need a switch in my living room and my switch has one open SFP port. 

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2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Same for me.

I am not interested at all to go the "fiber" path.

I hope that the Ultrarendu will get some upgrade next year.

 

Matt

No one should fee like that have to do anything. The ultraRendu is great on it's own and this is just another option.  

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