Sonore opticalRendu

[TubeLover]

Given all of the above commentary and discussion, it might be helpful to have an established description of the optimal recommended configuration of the opticalRendu and associated optical, and related components in one's system. It's become clear that two power supplies are needed. However, I would hope that I need not also extend this as far as needing two expensive data switches as some have reported is ideal. So, I believe that a leaves the following as the necessary components:

 

1) Sonore opticalRendu

1) Sonore optical module

2) SFP Fiber Transceivers (either bundled from Sonore or another brand known to work well in this system)

1) fiber optic cable (either bundled from Sonore or another brand known to work well in this system)

2) Sonore approved external power supplies

 

Am I correct in the above? I'm trying to determine the actual cost. Thanks.

 

JC

[kukiman]

Hello! 

 

Just received my opticalmodule and opticalrendu. The unit is stuck at orange led. I plugged the whole set in place of my microrendu unit. Microrendu can register orbiter just fine. It is plugged to an Apple airport express.

 

OM is using 5v (Tried 7V as well), light is green. The Ethernet port doesn’t have green or orange flashing at the Ethernet cable port. But the airport express is functioning with microrendu fine.

 

OR is using SGC 7v supply and turns from red to orange and never green. I know it could mean it’s stuck at having no Internet access?

 

I checked the optical cable, both side can see one red light from the two ports. I suppose it’s one way in one way out.

 

Power cycled my router and airport express and then turned off my OR unplugged SD card and plug it back in. Turned off my firewall gadget. Still stuck at orange.

 

anything I can do?

 

thanks in advance! Really eager to get it going 🙇🏻‍♂️

 

[kukiman]

Happy to report that Optical module is working now. Changed to another Ethernet hub and immediately got lights at the Ethernet port. 🙇🏻‍♂️ For some reason optical module doesn’t work with airport express.

[Puma Cat]

On 6/4/2019 at 5:07 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The understanding of "isolation" in digital audio has been my passion for at least 10 years. There is a LOT of misunderstanding on the subject floating around in audio circles.  Here is a quick summary of my current understanding and how the current products fit in with this.

 

There seems to be TWO independent mechanisms involved: leakage current and clock phase noise. Various amounts of these two exist in any system. Different "isolation" technologies out there address one or the other, but very rarely both at the same time.  Some technologies that attenuate one actually increase the other. Thus the massively confusing information out there.

 

Leakage current is a property of power supplies. It is the leakage of AC mains frequency (50/60 Hz) into the DC output. It is usually common mode (ie exists on BOTH the + and - wires at the same time, this makes it a bit difficult to see. There seems to be two different types, one that comes from linear supplies and is fairly easy to block, and an additional type that comes from SMPS and is MUCH harder to block. An SMPS contains BOTH types. They are BOTH line frequency.

 

Unfortunately in our modern times where essentially all computer equipment is powered by SMPS we have to deal with this situation of both leakage types coming down cables from our computer equipment. There are many devices on the market (I have designed some of them) for both USB and Ethernet, most can deal with the type from linear supplies but only a few can deal with the type from SMPS.

 

Optical connections (when the power supplies are completely isolated from each other) CAN completely block all forms of leakage, it is extremely effective. Optical takes care of leakage, but does not deal with the second mechanism.

 

Clock phase noise

 

Phase noise is a frequency measurement of "jitter", yes that term that is so completely mis-understood in audio circles that I'm not going to use it. Phase noise is a way to look at the frequency spectrum of jitter, the reason to use it is that there seems to be fairly decent correlation to sound quality. Note this has nothing to do with "pico seconds" or "femto seconds". Forget those terms, they do not directly have meaning in audio, what matters is the phase noise. Ynfortunately phase noise is shown on a graph, not a single number, so it is much harder to directly compare units. This subject is HUGE and I'm not going to go into any more detail here.

 

Different oscillators (the infamous "clocks" that get talked about) can have radically different phase noise. The level of phase noise that is very good for digital audio is very difficult to achieve and costs money. The corollary is that the cheap clocks used in most computer equipment (including network equipment) produce phase noise that is very bad for digital audio.

 

The important thing to understand is that ALL digital signals carry the "fingerprint" of the clock used to produce them. When a signal coming from a box with cheap clocks comes into a box (via Ethernet or USB etc) with a much better clock, the higher level of phase noise carried on the data signal can contaminate the phase noise of the "good" clock in the second box. Exactly how this happens is complicated, I've written about this in detail if you want to look it up and see what is going on.

 

The contamination is not complete, every time the signal gets "reclocked" by a much better clock the resulting signal carries an attenuated version of the first clock layered on top of the fingerprint of the second clock. The word "reclocked" just means the signal is regenerated by a circuit fed a different clock. It may be a better or a worse clock, reclocking doesn't always make things better!

 

As an example if you start with an Ethernet signal coming out of a cheap switch, the clock fingerprint is going to be pretty bad. If this goes into a circuit with a VERY good clock, the signal coming out contains a reduced fingerprint from the first clock layered on top of the good clock. If you feed THIS signal into another circuit with a very good clock, the fingerprint from the original clock gets reduced even further. But if you feed this signal into a box with a bad clock, you are back to a signal with a bad fingerprint.

 

The summary is that stringing together devices with GOOD clocking can dramatically attenuate the results of an upstream bad clock.

 

The latest devices form Sonore take on BOTH of these mechanisms that effect sound: optical for blocking leakage and multiple reclocking with very good clocks. The optical part should be obvious. A side benefit of the optical circuit is that is completely regenerates the signal with a VERY low phase noise clock, this is a one step reclocking. It attenuates effects from upstream circuits but does not completely get rid of them. This is where the opticalModule comes into play, if you put an opticalModule in the path to the opticalRendu you are adding another reclocking with VERY good clocking. The result is a very large attenuation of upstream effects. It's not completely zero, but it is close.

 

The fact that the opticalRendu is a one stage reclocking (which leaves some effects from upstage circuits) is why changing switches etc can still make a difference. Adding an OpticalModule between the switch and opticalRendu reduces that down to vanishingly small differences.

 

So an optical module by itself adds both leakage elimination and significant clock effects attenuation. TWO optical modules in series give you the two level reclocking .

 

An opticalRendu still has some significant advantages over say an ultraRendu fed by a single opticalModule, the circuitry inside the opticalRendu has been improved significantly over the ultraRendu. (it uses new parts that did not exist when the ultraRendu was designed). In addition the opticalRendu has the reclocking taking place a couple millimeters away from the processor which cuts out the effects of a couple connectors, transformers and cable. The result is the opticalRendu has some significant advantages.

 

An opticalModule feeding an ultraRendu does significantly improve it, but not as much as an opticalRendu. So you can start with an opticalModule, then when you can afford it add an opticalRendu, also fed by the opticalModule and get a BIG improvement.

 

I hope this gives a little clarity to the situation.

 

John S.

 

 

 

 

This is a terrific "article", John, and clearly explains why I can very clearly hear the (sonically adverse) impact of placing an el cheapo Ethernet switch into my digital streaming configuration when if its placed in front of (upstream) of my "fiber network", even when that switch is powered by a decent regulated Jameco LPS. It also leads to the conclusion that using an OpticalModule for the upstream FMC (in addition the OM that is downstream just before the µRendu) would be better than the TP-link MC220L FMC that I am using, even with the SystemOptique-certified SFP optical transceiver: 'cause the MC220L still has a sh*tty clock in it! Doh! 

 

 'Course, all these problems would be obviated by use of the EtherREGEN.

 

Hmmm....lots of food for thought. 

[Puma Cat]

19 minutes ago, kukiman said:

Happy to report that Optical module is working now. Changed to another Ethernet hub and immediately got lights at the Ethernet port. 🙇🏻‍♂️ For some reason optical module doesn’t work with airport express.

👍

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, kukiman said:

Happy to report that Optical module is working now. Changed to another Ethernet hub and immediately got lights at the Ethernet port. 🙇🏻‍♂️ For some reason optical module doesn’t work with airport express.

Remember the opticalModule and opticalRendu are 1000 speed internet devices. The Apple Airport Express is 100 speed and will not work with our gear. 

[R1200CL]

13 hours ago, TubeLover said:

2) Sonore approved external power supplies

 

You do not have to follow Sonore recommendations. (It’s not an approval). 

 

Given that  the USB specifications states up the 500mA Vbus draw, you could in theory get into problem with any supply where capability is below 1,5 A. 

 

Any power supply on the market will state maximum power draw and Voltage out.

It’s as easy as that.

 

BUT as probably a majority of USB DAC’s and USB to SPDIF converters draw something from the USB power, you’re highly likely to get into trouble, and for sure Sonore can’t deal with these issues.

 

Also, since manufacturers only following USB specifications, you normally don’t find any information about if or how much Vbus power is used. (I expect the opticalRendu can feed 500mA)

 

This is also why it’s a good idea to follow Sonore recommendations. 

[R1200CL]

8 hours ago, kukiman said:

OR is using SGC 7v supply and turns from red to orange and never green. I know it could mean it’s stuck at having no Internet access?

 

Can you remove usb interface and tell us what happen with the OR ?

 

Is this the PS you are using?

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories/products/5v-15v-linear-power-supply-15w?variant=12730870792226

 

What is attached to USB ?

 

Or is the OR working also now, after your ethernet issues is fixed ?

[sgr]

Hi,
Have ORendu installed.  It does sound better I think. More clarity. But......
I can only get it to work with ROON. Not as HqPlayer NAA. I’ve tried many different filters (probably not every possible combination that would be impossible I think) and working with Legacy Audio Wavelet DAC and PCM only  get it to play without stuttering with the filters set to none. The music will play a second or to then stop start again. 
The Ultra Rendu worked fine with exact same equipment and the same settings in HQPlayer 4.4 but they won’t work on ORendu.

I’d be glad for some help or ideas. 

[sgr]

Reposted as I wanted to add more info and was not allowed. 

Hi,
Have ORendu installed with the Sonore kit of optical cable, power supply for ORendu and an LPS1.2 powering the optical module. All components have powered up correctly and are stable.  First observations the ORendu has a clarity that I’d not experienced with the URendu. I believe it does sound better and has sure improved the longer its been electrified. But......
I can only get it to work with ROON. Not as HqPlayer NAA. I’ve tried many different filters (probably not every possible combination as that would be impossible I think) and am using Legacy Audio Wavelet DAC for PCM only  and can’t get it to play without stuttering or playing at all. Music will play a second or two then stop start again. 

I’ve rebooted the pc many times, used the sonic orbiter app to select HQPlayer Naa, done the same with ROON. Hqplayer is connected to the ORendu and sees it as a device as it did see URendu.  Nothing seems to work. The URendu is unplugged and not in the system at all so I know it’s not interfering. I also did ipconfig and reconfigured the ORendu in ROON just in case and it used the same address as the URendu did so that didn’t matter. 
My Ultra Rendu worked fine with exact same equipment and the same settings in HQPlayer 4.4 but they won’t work on ORendu.

I’d be glad for some help or ideas. 

[sahmen]

This is probably a dumb question, but I saw it coming from more than a mile away...  For those using an Opticalmodule with the ultrarendu, how do you connect it (the OM) to the ultrarendu, given that the latter is not equipped with an SFP cage / SFP optical transceiver for network connection unlike the opticalRendu, which is?  The RJ45 connector on my OM is receiving the signal directly from my router with my existing regular ethernet cable, leaving the SFP optical output as the only option for the Ultrarendu.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that I may need a second FMC unit armed with its own transceiver to make the .connection work.  If this is the case, then I have a TP-link MC220L unit with its own SFP transceiver on standby, which I can use, at least temporarily while I continue to sort the situation out.  Now if this is indeed the case, then which of the two (The OM or the TP-LINK FMC unit) should be positioned immediately before the ultrarendu in the chain, in order to make the noise isolation work optimally?  I am assuming that the OM should come immediately before the ultrarendu, but if I am mistaken in any of the above assumptions, kindly let me know.  Nothing is connected  as yet, since I am awaiting responses and any possible corrective input from this forum before I proceed, but here is the chain I am envisaging:

 

Router==>Existing cable Ethernet==>>TP Link MC220L/SFP Tranceiver==>> New Optical Ethernet ==>>OM/SFP Transceiver ==>> New Cable Ethernet==>>Ultrarendu.

 

Any helpful suggestions/corrections are wholeheartedly welcome.

 

Thanks.

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, sahmen said:

This is probably a dumb question, but I saw it coming from more than a mile away...  For those using an Opticalmodule with the ultrarendu, how do you connect it (the OM) to the ultrarendu, given that the latter is not equipped with an SFP cage / SFP optical transceiver for network connection unlike the opticalRendu, which is?  The RJ45 connector on my OM is receiving the signal directly from my router with my existing regular ethernet cable, leaving the SFP optical output as the only option for the Ultrarendu.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that I may need a second FMC unit armed with its own transceiver to make the .connection work.  If this is the case, then I have a TP-link MC220L unit with its own SFP transceiver on standby, which I can use, at least temporarily while I continue to sort the situation out.  Now if this is indeed the case, then which of the two (The OM or the TP-LINK FMC unit) should be positioned immediately before the ultrarendu in the chain, in order to make the noise isolation work optimally?  I am assuming that the OM should come immediately before the ultrarendu, but if I am mistaken in any of the above assumptions, kindly let me know.  Nothing is connected  as yet, since I am awaiting responses and any possible corrective input from this forum before I proceed, but here is the chain I am envisaging:

 

Router==>Existing cable Ethernet==>>TP Link MC220L/SFP Tranceiver==>> New Optical Ethernet ==>>OM/SFP Transceiver ==>> New Cable Ethernet==>>Ultrarendu.

 

Any helpful suggestions/corrections are wholeheartedly welcome.

 

Thanks.

The opticalModule is bidirectional. You connect the opticalModule to a ultraRendu or microRendu via RJ-45. The optical side most connect to another opticalModule or a switch with optical output.

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, sahmen said:

This is probably a dumb question, but I saw it coming from more than a mile away...  For those using an Opticalmodule with the ultrarendu, how do you connect it (the OM) to the ultrarendu, given that the latter is not equipped with an SFP cage / SFP optical transceiver for network connection unlike the opticalRendu, which is?  The RJ45 connector on my OM is receiving the signal directly from my router with my existing regular ethernet cable, leaving the SFP optical output as the only option for the Ultrarendu.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that I may need a second FMC unit armed with its own transceiver to make the .connection work.  If this is the case, then I have a TP-link MC220L unit with its own SFP transceiver on standby, which I can use, at least temporarily while I continue to sort the situation out.  Now if this is indeed the case, then which of the two (The OM or the TP-LINK FMC unit) should be positioned immediately before the ultrarendu in the chain, in order to make the noise isolation work optimally?  I am assuming that the OM should come immediately before the ultrarendu, but if I am mistaken in any of the above assumptions, kindly let me know.  Nothing is connected  as yet, since I am awaiting responses and any possible corrective input from this forum before I proceed, but here is the chain I am envisaging:

 

Router==>Existing cable Ethernet==>>TP Link MC220L/SFP Tranceiver==>> New Optical Ethernet ==>>OM/SFP Transceiver ==>> New Cable Ethernet==>>Ultrarendu.

 

Any helpful suggestions/corrections are wholeheartedly welcome.

 

Thanks.

Yes, your diagram is correct. Two things you need to be sure of: the two SFP modules are compatible, the optical cable is compatible with the modules and the upstream FMC is gigabit.

 

If you want to use the SFP module that comes from Sonore the other one must match:

850nm; multimode fiber, LC connector

The fiber cable must match the above.

 

Just make sure both SFP modules match this and the cable also matches the above and you should be fine.

 

John S.

[JohnSwenson]

3 hours ago, sgr said:

Reposted as I wanted to add more info and was not allowed. 

Hi,
Have ORendu installed with the Sonore kit of optical cable, power supply for ORendu and an LPS1.2 powering the optical module. All components have powered up correctly and are stable.  First observations the ORendu has a clarity that I’d not experienced with the URendu. I believe it does sound better and has sure improved the longer its been electrified. But......
I can only get it to work with ROON. Not as HqPlayer NAA. I’ve tried many different filters (probably not every possible combination as that would be impossible I think) and am using Legacy Audio Wavelet DAC for PCM only  and can’t get it to play without stuttering or playing at all. Music will play a second or two then stop start again. 

I’ve rebooted the pc many times, used the sonic orbiter app to select HQPlayer Naa, done the same with ROON. Hqplayer is connected to the ORendu and sees it as a device as it did see URendu.  Nothing seems to work. The URendu is unplugged and not in the system at all so I know it’s not interfering. I also did ipconfig and reconfigured the ORendu in ROON just in case and it used the same address as the URendu did so that didn’t matter. 
My Ultra Rendu worked fine with exact same equipment and the same settings in HQPlayer 4.4 but they won’t work on ORendu.

I’d be glad for some help or ideas. 

Given that Roon works it is probably not a bad connection issue. Dropouts etc could be happening because of the extra two devices the packets are going through, that's about the only thing that can be different from the uR setup. How many network devices do you have between the computer running HQP and the oM? If the HQP computer is connected to the same switch as the oM, one thing to try is to temporarily put it on the same switch and see if that makes any difference.

 

I don't use HQP so I can't give any specific advice on that, I can just ask some general questions. Is there any options in HQP having to do with buffer size or number of buffers? If yes that is good place to start.

 

John S.

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, sgr said:

I’d be glad for some help or ideas. 

 

Go to HQPlayer thread. It’s a known issue. 

[Musikfan]

Hi, I bought the OpticalRendu and am very satisfied.  I've been reading some of the posts about the OpticalModule and am a bit confused about the need to add the OM to the setup.  Currently I'm using the optic fiber switch and SFP Module that came with the SystemOptique bundle.  I connected the OpticalRendu into the switch via the SFP Module, and the OR via USB into the DAC.  My question is whether I need (or can use) the OM into this setup and if so, where do I plug the OM into the switch - into the SFP Module or into one of the non fiber optic ports?  And do I then plug the OM into the OR? I hope I've explained correctly.... (I did mention I'm a bit fuzzy/confused)....thanks very much!!  

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, Musikfan said:

Hi, I bought the OpticalRendu and am very satisfied.  I've been reading some of the posts about the OpticalModule and am a bit confused about the need to add the OM to the setup.  Currently I'm using the optic fiber switch and SFP Module that came with the SystemOptique bundle.  I connected the OpticalRendu into the switch via the SFP Module, and the OR via USB into the DAC.  My question is whether I need (or can use) the OM into this setup and if so, where do I plug the OM into the switch - into the SFP Module or into one of the non fiber optic ports?  And do I then plug the OM into the OR? I hope I've explained correctly.... (I did mention I'm a bit fuzzy/confused)....thanks very much!!  

You should be good to as is. However should you choose to experiment further you can connect cable Ethernet from the switch to the opticalModule and then connect fiber optic Ethernet to the Rendu.

[JohnDonaldson]

9 hours ago, sgr said:

Reposted as I wanted to add more info and was not allowed. 

Hi,
Have ORendu installed with the Sonore kit of optical cable, power supply for ORendu and an LPS1.2 powering the optical module. All components have powered up correctly and are stable.  First observations the ORendu has a clarity that I’d not experienced with the URendu. I believe it does sound better and has sure improved the longer its been electrified. But......
I can only get it to work with ROON. Not as HqPlayer NAA. I’ve tried many different filters (probably not every possible combination as that would be impossible I think) and am using Legacy Audio Wavelet DAC for PCM only  and can’t get it to play without stuttering or playing at all. Music will play a second or two then stop start again. 

I’ve rebooted the pc many times, used the sonic orbiter app to select HQPlayer Naa, done the same with ROON. Hqplayer is connected to the ORendu and sees it as a device as it did see URendu.  Nothing seems to work. The URendu is unplugged and not in the system at all so I know it’s not interfering. I also did ipconfig and reconfigured the ORendu in ROON just in case and it used the same address as the URendu did so that didn’t matter. 
My Ultra Rendu worked fine with exact same equipment and the same settings in HQPlayer 4.4 but they won’t work on ORendu.

I’d be glad for some help or ideas. 

Same thing going on here. Over the last few days @vortecjr and I have been discussing and troubleshooting my system. In the end vortecjr suggested I contact Jussi the author of HQPlayer to get his input. When Jussi answers my email I will let you know.

[cat6man]

4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Go to HQPlayer thread. It’s a known issue. 

 

i installed my opticalRendu just before leaving on a trip and had no problem with using it as an NAA.

could you summarize the 'known' issue please? (that's a long thread)

 

i did have one annoying problem (which i repeatedly relive since i usually forget it) and that was losing connectivity when the IP address changed on me, so i had to go to my router and assign a static IP

[Sonic77]

My Hqplayer version 4.0.4 works, I had to pick client then pick desk top, then it worked, weird.

[vortecjr]

5 hours ago, JohnDonaldson said:

Same thing going on here. Over the last few days @vortecjr and I have been discussing and troubleshooting my system. In the end vortecjr suggested I contact Jussi the author of HQPlayer to get his input. When Jussi answers my email I will let you know.

I emailed Jussi about sending him a unit. Im not having any issues here. T

 

This my network setup:

BellSouth router to NAS

BellSouth router to opticalModule to opticalRendu to DAC

[sahmen]

Setting up the opticalmodule to work with the ultrarendu was relatively easy and straight-forward. The setup works well, and playback--- using the Ultrarendu as a roon endpoint in this configuration--is smooth, for the most part, except for a few intermittent but short audio dropouts, which do not occur on other Roon endpoints on the same network...  Regarding these dropouts, I do not want to be too hard on the opticalmodule per se, in assigning blame, because I have had to pair it with the TPlink MC220L, which serves as the second FMC in the chain, and I am aware that might not be a necessarily ideal pairing...  

 

I am just reporting these dropout incidents here, in case anybody has also experienced them, and knows about some troubleshooting remedies that might useful...

 

Thanks.

[Puma Cat]

2 hours ago, sahmen said:

Setting up the opticalmodule to work with the ultrarendu was relatively easy and straight-forward. The setup works well, and playback--- using the Ultrarendu as a roon endpoint in this configuration--is smooth, for the most part, except for a few intermittent but short audio dropouts, which do not occur on other Roon endpoints on the same network...  Regarding these dropouts, I do not want to be too hard on the opticalmodule per se, in assigning blame, because I have had to pair it with the TPlink MC220L, which serves as the second FMC in the chain, and I am aware that might not be a necessarily ideal pairing...  

 

I am just reporting these dropout incidents here, in case anybody has also experienced them, and knows about some troubleshooting remedies that might useful...

 

Thanks.

I'm using my OM with a TPlink MC220L as my upstream FMC also, and while its not "ideal", per se, I haven't experienced any dropouts with it. Its important to use it with a good LPS, though. I'm using mine with an $11 Jameco 9V LPS. 

 

[sahmen]

15 minutes ago, Puma Cat said:

I'm using my OM with a TPlink MC220L as my upstream FMC also, and while its not "ideal", per se, I haven't experienced any dropouts with it. Its important to use it with a good LPS, though. I'm using mine with an $11 Jameco 9V LPS. 

 

Interesting. Could you kindly provide me with a link to this particular Jameco 9V LPS?  Thanks.

[Puma Cat]

1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Interesting. Could you kindly provide me with a link to this particular Jameco 9V LPS?  Thanks.

Sure! http://bit.ly/2Wo6Pwp

 

A friend also used this LPS on an TPlink Ethernet switch and told me he was "floored" at the improvement it brought over the POS TP-link supplied wall wart. Its also much better-sounding that using an iFi iPower for powering a microRendu, so if you are using that to power your OR...order two.