barrows Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 On 12/26/2018 at 7:48 PM, Music Enthusiast said: Impressive looking OCXO on that digital board: That XO looks like a Crystek module which is not ovenized. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 On 12/26/2018 at 7:46 PM, Music Enthusiast said: Compared to the Makua, looks like we are eliminating a volume pot, along with some relays, connections and likely some gain stages as well. Should be a leap up in sound quality for less money. The Makua preamp does not use a "volume pot". The pot controls the gain of the circuit and has no influence on the sound quality: it is an adjustable gain preamp design and the signal does not pass through the pot. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said: So in other words it's a digital encoder? So is the volume control a ladder resistor type with relay or CMOS switch control? No, it is a standard pot, but the music signal is not traveling through it. The pot is used to control the gain, so it is an adjustable gain preamp: the pot does not attenuate the music signal directly, it changes the gain of the preamp. Doak 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted December 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2018 @Music Enthusiast, I am sorry, I guess I am not explaining how the Makua works well enough for you to understand. I'll try again. The Makua preamp uses a standard pot to control the gain of the circuitry. Unlike the traditional way of controlling volume, where either a pot or a stepped attenuator actually applies resistance to the music signal itself (in which case the pot is directly in the signal path) the Makua only uses the pot to change the gain of the circuit (hence changing how loud the signal is, without attenuating it). The music signal is not going through the pot, as it would be with a conventional approach. For more details on how this works see this thread at DIYaudio, the preamp circuit here uses a very similar approach (although I believe the Makua uses discrete circuitry vs. the IC pampas used in the DIY version). https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/279382-bppbp-bruno-putzeys-purist-balanced-preamp-balanced-volume-control.html There are other preamps which use a similar approach, with adjustable gain rather than just directly attenuating the signal, from Ayre and PS Audio. Superdad and Ralf11 1 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 15 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said: That's a pretty large unit for a Crystek. I wasn't aware that Crystek made SC cut oscillators. Please share a link to the SC cut unit's in their catalog. The oscillator pictured on that board looks very much like a Crystek 957 or 950 series, same size: 14.2 mm x 9.14 mm. As to whether it has an SC cut crystal one would have to ask Crystek that. One thing, if we had a picture of the board from above we could easily confirm this as the Crystek oscillators are well marked. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said: It’s larger than the Crystek 950 series. And the case looks different as well. The top printed looks laser etched. Where Crystek stamps the printing into the case. Have you seen another picture than what you posted? I certainly cannot see any of what you describe in the picture here. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said: I understand the approach. But the literature provided by Mola Mola says this: “The relay-based volume control directly controls the gain of the output stage.” You can’t use an analog pot to control relays. You use an encoder for that. OK, so they use a stepped attenuator instead of a pot, it really makes no difference here as the point is the stepped attenuator is not in the signal path, it is controlling the gain of the circuit, and as such does not add any noise/distortion to the signal (the signal does not pass through the relays or resistors of the attenuator). Point being being that there is not anything more in the signal path as far as the volume control of the Makua vs. Tambaqui is concerned. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Davidny said: Given this internal processing, which seems unique and to my ears makes the Tambaqui sound very special, I doubt that pre processing the digital signal with add anything, and more likely will subtract from the end result. But if you try HQP let us know what you hear, one never knows unless you try it for yourself. While you are certainly entitled to having an opinion, your conclusion that the Tambaqui's oversampling is responsible for its "special" sound quality is just mere speculation on your part. I would suggest that it is even more likely that the Tambaqui's conversion stage, and analog output stage is responsible for its "special" sound quality, as that portion of the design is particularly unique, running a discrete converter at 100 MHz and 1 bit (and any analog stage which allows the noise spec of the Tambaqui is special). Albrecht 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted May 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2019 On 5/5/2019 at 3:24 PM, Ralf11 said: lemmee see now.... analog output stages are important in pre-amps and amplifiers, so .... In any DAC, the analog circuitry is an order of magnitude less accurate than the digital circuitry (OK, with the exception of some very old DAC tech), so the sound quality of any DAC is very reliant on the implementation of the analog circuitry (I/V stage and/or output buffer circuitry). marce and Matias 1 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 On 5/10/2019 at 4:24 PM, musicfirst said: So can someone tell us how the "lossless volume control" on the Tambaqui works and how it differs from the Makua/DAC? Other than switching functions, why would one choose the Makua over the Tambaqui if one's system is dedicated to a single digital source? The Tambaqui uses a digital volume control, exactly how it works is only known to the engineers who developed it, and the Makua preamp uses an adjustable gain stage to control the volume (which is an analog volume control, as would-be required for its analog inputs). IMO, if one does not need analog inputs, it would make no sense at all to choose the Makua over the Tambaqui. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted January 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2020 There are some engineering similarities between Mola Mola's and EMM's approach to D/A conversion. Both do the final conversion using a discrete, single bit, converter architecture, at very high sample rate. 100 MHz rate for Mola Mola, and EMM at 45.1584 MHz. Of course both use different approaches for the oversampling engine: Ed Meitner's approach seem to adapt the digital filters on the fly, which sounds like an approach which is rather unique. And then there is the very important analog output stage, both use discrete circuits oof their own design. I have not heard the latest EMM gear, but sure would like to hear the DV2 sometime, i suspect it is right up my alley sound wise! I already know that I love the sound of the Mola Mola DACs... DuckToller, skatbelt, Matias and 1 other 3 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Ran said: The Tambaqui Ethernet input supports only the roon protocol which is a deal breaker for me. One does not have to use the Ethernet input of course. One is free to use a separate Renderer which does support one's preferred streaming protocol, and subsequently the USB input of the Tambaqui (or Makua, whatever). There may even be a sonic improvement by using a separate Renderer (I have no experience testing the Tamabaqui's Ethernet input). I would also suggest that complaints aside, I think most will find the asking price for the Tambaqui is quite reasonable (even if it had no Ethernet input at all), as the DACs which it competes with sonically are often quite a bit more expensive. PYP 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, PYP said: when a reviewer calls gear captivating and beguiling, you know he hears something special. Hopefully he means the music, as presented by the Tambaqui, is captivating and beguiling! I have loved the Mola Mola DACs every time I have heard them... PYP 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 There is another possible reason why Mola Mola chose to only include Roon RAAT support for their Network interface: perhaps they found that the Roon RAAT format was technically superior to other Networking formats for audio purposes. After all, there is a reason the Roon folks decided to develop their own Networking protocol rather than just implement existing standards (DLNA, etc). It also should be considered, that the built in Ethernet input in many DACs does not perform as well as the best external Renderers. By no means am I suggesting that this IS the case with the Tambaqui (as I have no direct experience with it here), but I have heard reports from some users that the Tambaqui performs better via a top level external Renderer via its USB input than by using its onboard Ethernet interface. This is no criticism of the Tambaqui, indeed I would own one if I could! Point being we are in the early days of network interface DACs, and making a really good Network interface is not a trivial endeavor. In the rush to add Networking capabilities to their DACs, many manufacturers are taking short cuts right now: this is no different than what we saw during the early days of USB interfaces. yyz 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted August 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, yyz said: I have not investigated if it would on the Tambaqui but on the Denafrips Terminator (and Plus) the I2S by-passes a conversion that all other inputs go through to get the signal to the DAC engine. This results in a different sound on the I2S that most folks seem to think is better. Yeah, not really... I2S is the native, internal data path to a DAC conversion stage (chip or discrete). But the I2S between box connection is not that same I2S. The I2S between box connection (carried on an HDMI cable) is actually a balanced version ( AKA LVDS) of the normal I2S signal as is used by the DAC conversion stage. So, for example, if one uses the I2S input on say, the Denafrips, this would be the path with conversions (I will keep this example to a USB source for simplicity, but one could use any source): USB receiver-single ended I2S-LVDS chip (converts single ended I2S to balanced)-I2S on HDMI cable-LVDS chip (inside DAC, converts balanced I2S back to single ended)-DAC conversion stage (chip or discrete). Note that in the above example, we have a D-D converter which creates the original I2S signal from the USB input. Now, let's consider the path when we use the USB input inside the DAC: USB cable to DAC-USB receiver (converts USB audio to single ended I2S)-DAC conversion stage. As one can see, there are LESS conversions by using the USB input inside the DAC, because the signal has no need to be converted to and from a balanced format to a single ended one. Also note that the LVDS chip conversions add jitter, typically in the three digits of pS range. Rune, PYP and Matias 2 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted October 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2020 13 hours ago, Davidny said: I use an Audionet Stern preamp. I think the Tambaqui’s performance can be enhanced significantly depending on the equipment and cabling used to accompany it. Here is a good video on the impact a good preamp can have on a DAC To be fair, before PS Audio introduced the BHK preamp, they recommended going DAC direct to amp. Then, totally coincidentally, once they had a preamp in their product line, they suddenly experienced a tectonic shift in their approach, and started insisting that a preamp was a necessity for the best sound. I would suggest engaging one's own intelligence before blindly believing all "expert" commentary regarding the "need" for a preamp when that commentary comes from a source which has a vested interest in selling a (often entirely unnecessary) preamplifier. sb6 and Ran 1 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Agree. Even rooms made for audio have issues :~) My only thing is this - how can one be certain they are hearing the DAC, the amp, etc... without knowing the characteristics of the room? More than likely one is hearing the room's effects on the DAC and that doesn't translate to my room, your room, or any other room. It's all good though. This is a fun hobby and as long as we're having fun and enjoying it, that's what counts. I would suggest, that in the case of a reviewer making comparisons, the room stays the same and only the DAC(s) change, so the comparison should still be valid as for the difference between the DACs... In any case, no one shopping for a 5 figure component should rely on third party reports to make a purchase decision, no matter who that third party may be. I suspect that for most people, a 5 figure component is a considerable investment; one needs to hear the component in question in their own room and system, to have any chance of making a fully informed decision. DACs at this level are available for in home trials, yes, it might take a little research to find the right dealer for this, but it can be done. Please do not rely on third party advise when making critical sound quality decisions like this. PYP 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted November 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 5, 2020 6 hours ago, fds said: Still wondering about the use of SMPSs in the Tambaqui (and Chord DAVE). From my understanding, the two-box solution with a sophisticated LPS in a separate housing as offered with the Holo Audio May for example seems to be the much better way to go. Look at the measurements for the Tambaqui first: It is one of the absolute best measuring DACs in the world with no noise on its output. Then listen to the Tambaqui: it is one of the most effortless, detailed, natural sounding, dynamic, true to timbre DACs you will ever hear. Your concern regarding the presence of a SMPS is unfounded. While it is true, that poorly implemented, cheapo wall wart style power supplies can affect sonic performance of audio components negatively (of course so can poorly implemented linear power supplies), with good engineering there is no need to hold onto an irrational fear of SMPS. When well implemented, SMPS can even offer some advantages over linear power supplies. And remember the engineer here is Bruno Putzeys, who is a master and designing circuits which are unaffected by high frequency noise (hence his success with class D amplification circuits). Two of the very best DACs I know of, the Tambaqui and EMM Labs DV2 both use SMPS, and neither suffers any "problems" because of such. Good engineering solves any inherent SMPS issues in these products. TerryO, PYP, Sam Lord and 1 other 4 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 minute ago, yyz said: @Barrows I have the impression you have heard a lot of DACs. Have you heard the Benchmark DAC3 too? If the Tambaqui is a 10/10 in an arbitrary scale where would the DAC3 fit in from your perspective or anyone else who has heard both. I have not heard the DAC 3. I have heard the previous Benchmark models and have not been impressed-to me they have sounded like a lot of ESS based DACs: highly resolved with low noise, but lacking in tone and timbral accuracy. I have also built a number of ESS based DACs, and have experienced that there are ways to get better sound out of them, but few companies (besides Ayre) appear to use the ESS chips in the best ways... In any case, the Tambaqui is better than any of the ESS based DACs I have heard, including my own DIY efforts. After many years of listening to a lot of different DACs, and building about a half dozen or so DIY efforts (including a DSC-2, discrete DSD DAC based on Jussi's approach), I have come to the conclusion that there appear to be real advantages to DACs which use discrete conversion methods (as opposed to DAC chips) and DACs which do their conversion to analog on a DSD bit stream (I am not suggesting that such an approach is always the best though...) DACs like the Tambaqui, EMM labs, Playback Designs, PS audio DS, Holo audio (DSD section), Bricasti (using their discrete DSD section) and others which use a discrete DSD conversion approach often seem to have an advantage to me. I guess this makes sense from an engineering perspective as well: why use a multi-purpose DAC chip, designed to suit numerous commercial applications, with many unnecessary features (internal DSP), when one can just design a really good, discrete conversion stage, which does exactly what the designer wants it to, without having to adapt one's approach to the various "features" included in the the DAC chips from the major providers (although I do think it may be possible to engineer a really good DSD based DAC using the newish AKM 4499 chip, using its "direct DSD" conversion path, which skips all the onboard DSP of the chip-hopefully the fire at AKM will not cause a shortage of chips for too long). SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, yyz said: You should add the non-chip based Rockna (sp?) and AudioByte from the same guys out in Romania. Nope, those are PCM DACs, not DSD. They use multibit R2R conversion schemes which are inherently flawed (although some have learned how to compensate for those flaws adequately in some DACs). My preference is for conversion stages which operate on single bit streams (DSD) with a discrete conversion approach. yyz 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 2 hours ago, MikeJazz said: Hi Barrows, how does your DSD-2 compares to the DAC's you mentioned? Would you say it can get you 80% of the qualities of the other mentioned DSD DAC's or is it much further away? And is there a clear path to bring a DSD-2 closer, or it just makes sense to go for a complete solution instead of the DIY path? I agree with you, most ESS implementations sound "accurate" for the first listenings, but lack tone and timbre, and some color "saturation" like the LH Labs dac I have at home (I rarely listen to it). I am not certain as to this comparison right now. My DSC-2 implementation has never been "perfect", and every implementation is different. I will say, that the DSC style approach is what I would go with if I were the product development leader on a team trying to produce a new DAC design for commercial purposes. The question for me is: there are a handful of DSC DAC PCBs available for DIY here and there, but many of them have some "problems", and there are also some measurements for some of these boards, and these measurements also appear to show some "problems" which would really need to be ironed out to make it "perfect". When one is dealing with DIY, the boards are often developed by hobbyists, who, not being professionals, may not have enough experience and knowledge to produce the best implementation of the DSC concept. My feeling after listening to a handful of DACs using the DSC style approach, is that this approach may be the one most likely to produce the sound qualities I am looking for, but I am still waiting for a "perfect" implementation to appear for DIY. So, long story! My DSC-2 version is still under active development, and does sound really good, but it still has some practical limitations right now, and I am not knowledgable enough on my own to make it "perfect". Right now I am really loving my Bricasti M3... I use it only via its discrete single bit DSD conversion path, using the M3's onboard analog volume control, and with DSD 256 input only. I would love to hear a Holo Audio May sometime, but it has no volume control, and does not really have enough output level to use in my system via its DSD path, without a preamp. I have thoroughly tested the preamp/no preamp situation, and am fully committed to the advantages of going amp direct. If the May had at least 4 V output with DSD I would give it a shot here with software volume control, but the low output with DSD is just not enough in my system. MikeJazz 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 2 hours ago, yyz said: If you get the chance, try the Benchmark LA4 or HPA4 preamp into your chain. They have a 30 day home trial for those people who are curious. I found it was a better sound than direct to amp. It is quiet as the Mola Mola Makua but cost$ 2500. I think it is an incredible component that will help most DACs. It will not make your DAC noisier and likely make you volume control sound better. Nope, I have thoroughly and exhaustively tested this and have absolute zero interest in going backwards here. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Yikes! SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted December 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just about any component can be improved by some degree of modification or another, and certainly the sound of any component can be changed (not necessarily improved) by modification. But that does not mean that one should go ahead and pursue these things. In my time working in CS and tech support I have seen some horrific things done to perfectly good electronics, by people who clearly had no business messing around inside a well designed and constructed piece of electronics. Including changes which killed the component. Everyone should note that any changes will almost certainly completely void your warranty, so do not get pissed at the manufacturer when something goes wrong with a modded piece of gear. fas42 and PYP 2 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted December 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, PYP said: The Tambaqui is $13,400. It includes a Roon endpoint streamer and preamp function. It costs less than the Soulution 760, that has the same functions, and costs $72,000. Of course, if you are looking for only a DAC, there is always the Wadax reference DAC, which costs $145,000. And if you are an analog guy, there is the TechDASAir Force Zero Turntable at $450,000 (according to one source, the median cost of a house in the US is $200,000). I believe @plissken has not actually listened to a Tambaqui, and is of the belief system (based on no listening experience of the Tambaqui) that there is no DAC which could possibly sound better than, say, a Benchmark. Of course anyone who actually heard these two DACs would immediately notice the difference in sound, unless the system context was total crap. Belief systems are funny this way, when they keep one from actually having a real experience with which to back up their assertions. On standard measures, the Tambaqui also outperforms a Benchmark, but I think most of us can agree that the standard measures of both reveal no audible "problems". Here is Bruno Putzeys on why he made an original design rather than using an OTS chip: "It's kinda funny, it feels almost like a blast from the past as I did this DAC design in 2013... It wasn't a single handed job btw. I did the schematics and prepared all the algos in MATLAB and my mate Bart van der Laan then rolled the circuit boards and did some heroic assembly language coding. In case anyone's wondering why I decided to go discrete, I actually started testing existing sigma-delta DAC chips first but could find none that didn't have idle tones. I suspect that is still the case. Chip manufacturers usually manage to move these out of the band at mid-scale (i.e. zero or small signal), but they show up in a THD vs level graph as a small increase in apparent noise typically starting at -20dBfs. Basically this "noise" are tones that are swept in and out of the audio band, frequency modulated by the signal. The simplest way of testing for this is to do a noise level vs DC input plot. The tones, when they appear, are well above the noise floor, even as integrated over the audio band. Using PWM as a conversion format solves this tone problem, but nobody is doing that on an IC. Hence the discrete design. I won't speculate on the audibility of this phenomenon but anything that is measurable is fair game for me. If people are going to shell out serious moolah for a DAC, least thing you can do is show an objectively provable benefit. Low jitter is also something I like to that's why we ended up coding our own ASRC algorithm." The above quote is excerpted from Bruno Putzeys' comments on the ASR review of the Tambaqui. Perhaps the idle tones Bruno speaks of are responsible for the relatively obvious (to me) sound quality advantage of the Tambaqui vs. common SDM chip based DACs, perhaps it is something else. What is clear from the above is that all aspects of DAC performance cannot be expressed by a few common measurements: if one is looking to produce a superior product, one has to explore beyond the standard single tone responses. PYP, Matias and Superdad 2 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now