The Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC

[Stereophilus]

I posted this in a different thread: 

probably more relevant to this thread.

 

 

[Stereophilus]

 

Another reviewer who REALLY likes this DAC.

[Stereophilus]

14 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

Very good review and excellent comparison of two high end DACs.
I really like the Mola Mola Tambaqui myself, but it's a shame it's only Roon ready and doesn't support other streaming services. And it doesn't have an analog volume control and not sure how good the digital volume control is, but Darko seems very impressed with the sound.
Now there's also the latest Terminator Plus DAC to consider, which also lacks volume control. Choices, choices...

There’s always the Makua if you need analog volume control.  The streaming choices are a bit thin, but Roon Ready is probably the priority for most.

 

I have heard the Terminator (not plus), the Dave and the Sonnet Morpheus.  All excellent DACs.  None of them are in the same league as the Mola Mola, IMHO.

[Stereophilus]

36 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

I only use digital source so I don't really need a preamp as such. It's just that so far I have used DACs with builtin analog volume controls and I don't like having a separate preamp. I am on the less is more camp regarding this issiue.
As I stated in my comment, since Darko was so impressed with the sound that digital volume implementation of Tambaqui must be very good.

In his review of the Tambaqui, Darko uses the PS Audio BHK preamp for volume control.  There is a point in the comments section where he states he doesn’t use digital domain volume control because he finds using a preamp “meatier”.  I’m sure you could compare Makua to Tambaqui for yourself if you really wanted analog volume control without a seperate box.

[Stereophilus]

35 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

Didn't he also say he used the volume control in Roon rather than the one in Tambaqui app? That means you don't really need a preamp with Tambaqui.
I thought he used the preamp to easily switch between Tambaqui and Bartoc during comparison.
Anyway, I can always keep my current Lindemann DAC which has a very good analog volume control and also a couple of analog inputs too.
 

The Roon app was controlling the Tambaqui’s volume setting in that video.  Roon does the same with the Makua when using the Makuas Roon ready input.  As @PYP stated, he was demonstrating how you can control volume with the Tambaqui.  He does mention that he matched the output voltage of the Tambaqui to the Bartok, and fed them both into the BHK preamp, but unfortunately I don’t think he mentioned where volume control was implemented.

[Stereophilus]

19 minutes ago, Ran said:

So, if I want to stream Qobuz with the Tambaqui, I have to buy a computer, install roon on it and pay monthly fee to roon on top of my Qobuz fee.

lol, of course not! You can hook up any streamer via USB (or whatever digital input you prefer) and stream that way.  It is just that the built-in streamer is limited to Roon.  I won’t list all the options for streaming here.... This forum has copious pages to help you decide which option will suit you best.

[Stereophilus]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

For 14k I expect this to support more than one network protocol. 

“For the price... I expect...” 

 

This phrase (or similar) gets replayed a lot on audiophile forums.  It seems to be the operating norm for undermining a product in terms of value or relevance.  Expectations of value are more related to personal circumstances than the product itself.  There are DACs costing many times what a Tambaqui costs that do not feature any streaming input at all.  And in contrast, you can find fully featured DAC+streamers that cost a fraction of what the Tambaqui does.  The Tambaqui is what is... For $14k you get a top shelf DAC, with an average headphone stage, a digital volume control and a basic streamer built in.  For many people that represents tremendous value.
 

 

[Stereophilus]

On 9/22/2020 at 10:56 AM, PYP said:

 

I agree that simply using the ethernet input as-is yields very good sound, but that it can be improved; therefore, there is an alternative to going the USB route.  The improved ethernet (simply adding an UpTone etherREGEN in stock form or using it as a platform for further upgrades, such as an external clock, etc.) sounds wonderful.  That said, I haven't heard the USB input with an excellent streamer, so have no idea how this combination sounds.

In my system I have the Makua DAC, rather than the Tambaqui.

I was using Antipodes CX (Roon core) to Antipodes EX (Roon Ready endpoint) to Uptone ISO-Regen (Powered by an Uptone JS-2) to the USB input.  There is an EtherRegen (also powered by JS-2) upstream of the CX.  The sound quality using this setup was awesome.

 

I upgraded the Makua recently to have the Ethernet streaming board added.

 

Comparing the original setup to using Antipodes CX directly (via Ethernet) into the Makua’s streaming input, the latter is a clear winner to my ears.  I would not go back to USB (even highly tweaked, regenerated, isolated and using high-end USB cables) having heard how good the streaming input is.

 

In what way better?  To my ears, the streaming input sounds more musically relaxed and yet with sharper focus and consequentially more apparent detail.  It’s not “night and day” different, but it was clear to me very quickly in back to back comparisons.  
 

Does anyone know if the Tambaqui uses the same USB board as the Makua?

[Stereophilus]

10 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

From the description of the sound - if part of an audio chain is not "transparent" then it becomes a weak link, most likely the weakest - if every part of the chain is '100% transparent', except the DAC, which is '50% transparent' - then no matter what you throw at the rest of the chain, it's doomed to always be only at the 50% mark ... so then, ignore everything else, and 'fix the DAC', 😉

 

IME, the D to A conversion area is the most important, the most subject to loss of the critical subjective SQ - get that part right, and losses elsewhere are nowhere near as important as far as long term listening satisfaction is concerned.

I think most of us have thrown around audiophile terms such as “transparency” and “accuracy” when we are searching for a way to describe what we are hearing.  And in general, most readers here know what you mean when you use those terms.

 

The problem with the terms “transparency” and “accuracy” is that they are relative to some arbitrary ideal (eg the studio performance, or a live performance). The person using those terms was almost certainly NOT present in the studio or at the live performance, and even if they were, can they remember the performance in perfect detail?  So how can we truly know if DAC A is 50% more “transparent” than DAC B? We cannot, because we cannot know the ideal to which we are comparing.

[Stereophilus]

17 hours ago, HH_miller said:

I have just received a Demo Tambaqui for my Susvara/Niimbus, it is setup and currently running warm. I do come from a Sonnet Audio Morpheus R2R and am curious to listen to it over the long weekend.

 

Initial findings, very different presentation. Especially from the dynamics the Mola Mola seems extremely transparent and resolving. The second one was a nice one, I am running them AES on the end of a series of Genelecs (including a big sub). I usually mute the Genelecs but sometimes I forget, it becomes obvious when the sub kicks in. This time again I thought that I forgot … but I did not! I was under the impression to even feel the base.

 

Richter: Dream 1 on Max Richter Sleep

 

 

I too have compared the Mola Mola DAC (Makua) to the Sonnet Morpheus.  They are very different.  I noticed the Mola Mola conveyed much more air and sense of space.  The Morpheus has that R2R timbre, but is, IMO, claustrophobic in comparison.

[Stereophilus]

11 hours ago, PYP said:

maybe not.  I think the sound improved a bit, but my theory is that unplugging everything is usually beneficial anyway, so cannot be sure the update was the cause.  Sounds incredible, as owners know...

 

Reminders for those who have not updated:

-- check for update on your mobile app first and update there first.  Then the instructions pop up at the end.

-- from your computer, download latest digin programmer for either Windows or Mac from the Mola Mola website

-- if you are a Mac user, you may get the "not trusted app" message when you try to open digin.  If so, go to System Preferences, Security and Privacy, allow app download from...Mola Mola - open anyway (click on this button).

-- when you connect to the Tambaqui to your Mac via USB, choose the USB input (ok, that one is obvious).  The input will blink.  Wait a bit and the digin app will look for update and tell you if the update is ready.   

 

 

It’s so hard to know if the update makes any difference to SQ… it’s not like you can ABX firmware in the Mola Mola gear!  FWIW I usually don’t notice any change to SQ, but with this update I did think there a slight improvement.

[Stereophilus]

16 hours ago, galanakop said:

I'm not sure if a device and pre amplifier and dac would have the same performance if they were two separate. I think in terms of catering it will definitely lag behind. What do you say???

in terms of power supply I meanI imagine that two power supplies compared to one like doing this on its own will make a difference.  what do you think ???

 

The real question is do you need a preamp for anything else apart from the DAC? 
 

If your only source will be the Tambaqui DAC, then save some money and use the Tambaqui direct into your active ATC loudspeakers.  The money you save can be better spent on other areas of your system, or music…

 

However, if you need a preamp for other sources, then the Makua offers an edge over the Tambaqui, albeit at a price.  The Makua has a very transparent analog volume control along with excellent current drive for overcoming the cable length losses to your active ATCs.  You may notice, as I did, that the Makua digs a bit deeper in the bass compared to Tambaqui direct.  Any interconnecting cables between a DAC and preamp will detract from the sound, which is why the direct connection within the Makua will sound the best if a preamp is needed.

[Stereophilus]

Bruno made a reference to using the DAC he designed for Mola Mola in the Kii’s in this interview:

He mentions needing to change some elements in the DAC to avoid Kii infringing on Mola Mola patents.

 

This thread is mainly for the Tambaqui, but I thought it worth expanding on the discussion about the Makua as a “Tambaqui + preamp” for @mevdinc.  I have been demo-ing different preamps to see if the Makua analog section can be improved on.  Preamps can add flavour / colour to a system sound, which is legitimate, but not my preference.  I am aiming for transparency and naturalness.  To get anything as transparent sounding, especially at low output level, the closest I have found is the Audionet Stern.  And even the Stern, as good as it is with delicacy, is not as dead quiet (at its output) as the Makua output at idle.  The Stern is USD $45k…

 

 

[Stereophilus]

52 minutes ago, zerung said:

I have a peculiar problem.

 

I am connecting my MMT to a power amp directly.

When I first start the unit, with the MMT as Roon Endpoint,  there is always this huge static noise.

 

I then use the MM App to toggle the unit off and on, which then has a resultant jumping back and forth on the Mac Mini Roon core Device, and then the noise goes away.

 

Is this because the MMT Roon endpoint catching something every time it is starting?

 

Thanks 

Could you describe the upstream network feeding the Tambaqui?  Do you have any other inputs connected?  Have you got the latest firmware installed on the Tambaqui?

[Stereophilus]

9 minutes ago, zerung said:

1. Uptone Audio ER fed to MMT

2. Mac Mini Roon control, via Wifi.

3. MMT directly to Wavac Tube Amp

4. MMT _ PC power isolated to remove ground loop

 

Yes! Latest firmware

 

Thanks 

I have not experienced anything like what you describe with my MM Makua, but I would consider the following things:

1. there could be a ground loop from ER to Tambaqui if you are using a shielded Ethernet cable.  Try using a basic Cat 5e cable from ER to Tambaqui to see if that works.

2. there may be an issue with ER or it’s power supply.  Try removing the ER from the chain.

3. is there an issue with the Roon core? Try powering up the Tambaqui with the Roon core switched off.  Then see what happens when you turn the Roon core on with the Tambaqui already on.

4. there may be an issue with your Tambaqui.  Ask your local dealer to help you.