First Question as a New Member

[JohnJo]

I've been slowly progressing with building my system to the point, I feel I can bring in to the system, a Computer Based Music Replay.

I have prepared for this during 2018, by purchasing my first DAC, it is a custom built Valve Regulated / Valve Output Stage model based around a 1541 Chip, it has a Coax and USB Input,

with standard RCA Coax  Output.

I have trialed a few Digital Coax Cables,  working down from a expensive Silver Custom Built type, to cheaper copper versions. A Mapleshade version got my vote of approval, and is the cable I use 

between CD>DAC.

At present I have a Lenovo Y510P Laptop in use, with FLAC Files used to replay music through 5KPlayer into a Anker Bluetooth Speaker.

In the short term I would like to use the 5KPlayer software as it is a free service, and is a marked improvement over the other free software's I have previously used. 

I would like to use a USB interface between the Laptop > DAC.

I had my mind set on a ISO REGEN with Hard USB Connections. The USB Hard Connections were just to put to one side any USB cable issues, as this is another broad area to work with.

Just recently the Gustard U16, has come under my radar.

I will require a USB Cable with this model, as I can not see how to get two USB Hard Connectors to work.

Is my basic aim for a USB Interface set up, a sensible method for a entry level version ?

Are there other options achievable for a similar outlay of monies ?

Are there other devices, cost not off a concern, that will offer a much improved performance, as I could look for a used device for sale during 2019.

As a further insight to my basic plan, in 2019,  I will be looking at a software like HQ Player to be used. 

 

Seasons Greetings

John 

[One and a half]

Much as it's tempting, I wouldn't bother with direct USB inputs to the DAC. The receivers and transmitters and the USB transmission are far from perfect. Considering how many USB fixers there are, it's not surprising a lot of them work and a few don't. A few DAC manufacturers keep USB out of the box (Berkeley Design for example).

 

So I would keep the existing DAC using the coax input, the course to select how USB to coax? Many solutions from a Schitt EITR (USD129) to Berkeley Alpha USB (~USD2800?), your wallet will decide, many here will vouch for the EITR as great value, note it will do PCM only. What worked for me in taming USB was the ifi Micro USB3.0, it works similar to the REGEN but is powered from the USB 3.0 port from the computer. I tried the Intona USB isolator, but found it generated false treble presentation, plus it has reduced output for hungry DAC USB front ends.

 

Maybe do away with USB altogether and consider an Ethernet solution, I'm very happy with a two box digital audio system after many years of experimentation.

[Solstice380]

USB can be great, and it’s getting easier and less costly to get there.  I agree with@One and a half, the two box solution over Ethernet is best.  WiFi can be used and some report good results.  There is great player software selection ranging from free to few hundred $.  There is also great hardware selection available ranging from a few hundred $ to thousands.  I’ve been running NUCs as endpoints for a couple years and also have the SOTM offering for high-end endpoint.  Bot are really good.  You will add the cost/complexity of some cables and a little effort to understand and setup the software, but you only need to go as deep as you are comfortable with.  

 

Some manufacturers are just starting to put the Ethernet endpoint into their DACs, but right now mostly high-end ones.  This indicates to me that it can be a good way to go.  It does take a little extra parts and effort to get it right.   

 

Start simple and lower budget and read up here at CA.  Welcome to the forum!

[JohnJo]

Thank you for your replies and support.

I will check out your suggestions, and see how to introduce a ethernet connection, this is a new consideration for me.

Maybe a ethernet port could be added to the DAC ? 

 

John

[Solstice380]

18 minutes ago, JohnJo said:

Maybe a ethernet port could be added to the DAC ? 

 

That’s a tricky proposition, especially on a DIY basis.  Some commercially available “streamers” with that, and some are not as $$$ as others.  Auralic, Lumin and Bryston come to mind but still $2K+.

[JohnJo]

I've looked at the higher grade DAC builds, produced by the EE who built my DAC.

I can not see any Ethernet ports on these models.

So without contacting the EE, I can't determine if a additional Ethernat Port Input is a option.

At present I am enjoying my new DAC, and I am not ready for a exchange of it for the foreseeable future. I hope this does not leave me too restricted with my plan. 

Even though a additional Ethernet Port built on to the DAC, would be great, if it were available.

In my mind, 'so I may be wrong on this' , the additional port would be a cost effective way to investigate how to get the best out of supporting devices, as well as allow for a more accurate comparison of a alternative DAC devices at a later date.

I am not ready to consider a multiple thousand $$$$ device set up at present. 

Does the two box solution ?? ( any device recommendations to achieve this are welcome) run into multiple thousands $$$.

Does the DAC require a Ethernet Port input, to achieve a two box solution over Ethernet ?  

What is required to get USB , that can be great, using the easier and less costly options ?

  

[Solstice380]

@JohnJo  Read up on the Intel NUC as an Ethernet endpoint (renderer) and use the USB out to the DAC.  A few hundred $ for the NUC and $49 for AudioLinux software to run it.   Then you can use your laptop as the server.   From that level it starts to take some effort, add ons and $$$ to make it a lot better.  Search for the thread about “massively improve computer audio”! NUC, or AudioLinux (AL).

[Blake]

My personal thoughts:

 

I would avoid direct USB connection to your DAC.  I'd go with an Eitr.  It is cheap and returnable if you don't like it.

 

I also would not go ethernet direct to your DAC (ethernet direct is still in the 'infancy' stage and sure to evolve in the future and may never be adopted wholesale by the industry).

 

I would not bother with a supposed "all in a perfect box DAC that includes a streamer".  One-box solutions guaranty obsolesence in a short time due to the rapidly evolving nature of digital.  The modular approach allows upgrading as things evolve and there is 100% certainty that the flavor of the month today will be considered outdated by next year (evidence of this is the "massive" thread- just ask those participants how many times they thought they reached "end game" status, only to reverse course again and again).

 

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

Sonore has some very easy ethernet to USB/Coax devices that would work great with your current DAC.

 

http://www.sonore.us

[JohnJo]

I've looked into NUC Silent Computers.

As a immediate model that grabbed my attention was the Kingdel N860, as discussed on here

in another thread.

I would say it was the price of less than $400 that grabbed me, as these types of Computers in their latest configurations are much more costly in the UK.

The next question from me, as I am not familiar with terminology. 

What is a two box solution ?

Is it a Computer>Ethernet Cable> Eitr> Coax Cable> DAC,

or  Computer> USB Cable> Eitr> Coax Cable> DAC.

I have been reading the replies, I feel I misinterpreted a earlier view that was offered. 

 The wording" I agree with the two box over Ethernet ", is a support for a two box solution, where a USB Cable would be the cable to use. 

I feel that is closer to what the member was trying to pass on to me.

Is the Gustard U16 and ISO REGEN, Eitr devices, as well as the Schitt Eitr.

A little bit off on a Tangent, if a NUC box was to be used, that has 4K resolution capabilities,

would using it for small work load Photo Editing compromise the usage of the set up for music replays. 

[bobfa]

When we are talking about multi-box solutions most of the time there are two computers in the system.  One computer is acting as the music server, it does the heavy lifting in the system.  The second computer has been typically a low power computer residing in the stereo system that "translates" from Ethernet to USB.

 

Server computer-> network -> endpoint -> DAC is a logical construct.  The network part is in general much more complex than a simple ethernet wire. 

 

The endpoint computer is mostly just a media/protocol translation device e.g Ethernet to USB.  The endpoint to DAC connection can get complicated and can be just about any interface type.  Very often it is USB and there are sometimes further "filtering/regeneration" processes in use there such as an ISOregen.

 

 

 

The above description is abbreviated  so do not take this literally.  You might study the Roon Labs music playback system to further expand your understanding.  Also we are not talking about video play back here only audio.

 

As a final note, you do not really talk about your output system.  How are you listening to music?    You mentioned a Bluetooth speaker system in your note and in general, the audio quality of a Bluetooth connection is shall we say low and may not warrant the extra expense. 

[JohnJo]

Hello Bob

                 Thank you for clarifying on the term 'a Multi-box solution',  is this the same as the Two Box solution, as you can see if the Two Box and Multi Box are the same set up, then I was interpreting  the devices required to create the set up incorrectly.

You are correct in your description that I am at present mainly using a Laptop > 5KPlayer > Bluetooth Speaker for much of my digital replays of music. It is convenient and allows to sample new music genre's so suits as a gap filler and insight into how a set up could function.

I have a very well thought out Vinyl Front End, that has been through a few incarnations to get to the one that will be in use very soon.

I am if you go by my HiFi System building experience, relatively new to CD, it has only been a  Source since 2017.

In 2018, I introduced a Custom Built, Valve rectified/Valve Output TDA1541 DAC to the system. The effect of the DAC is not small and I see it as a crucial device to be used in my wish to have a digital replay.

There is also a modified 1541 chip supplied by the designer as a upgrade to the one in the DAC at present. 

I have somehow refrained from going the Laptop > S/PDIF > DAC,  as I wished to give the DAC a good chance to perform at its best.

Hence my questions recently raised in this thread.

The overall system used is,

                                                     Vinyl Front End,                                                       

                                                                                     Slage AVC >    Custom Built 845 PP Monoblocks > Mapleshade Speaker Cable> ESL 57's

CD > Mapleshade Digital Ribbon > DAC Source,  

 

I now am looking forward to creating a digital replay set up, that will question the CD side of the system, as well as allow for numerous hours of mixed music replays that can be had without the need to exchange discs.