Raspberry Pi as a music server?

[audiobomber]

5 hours ago, carlmart said:

Is anyone using any of this?

I am using the RPI 3 B+ and Volumio in one of my systems. Volumio can oversample but as far as I know it will not convert PCM to DSD. It does support DSD replay.  

 

I strongly suggest you break the 5V USB connection between the RPI and your DAC. I believe the D50 has its own power supply, in which case you can block the 5V pin on the USB A connector, or use a USB cable with no 5V power connection. This tweak will make a bigger difference than DSD conversion. The RPI USB bus is pretty poor.

[carlmart]

Does Volumio allow connecting with the ethernet network and see the files folders on the PC/Server?

 

For now it would be enough if it could play pcm, wav and DSD files with no conversion.

 

Can Moodeaudio play network files? I'm not planning to use any usb source to input files into the RPi. All cabled network.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

[franz159]

10 minutes ago, carlmart said:

Does Volumio allow connecting with the ethernet network and see the files folders on the PC/Server?

 

For now it would be enough if it could play pcm, wav and DSD files with no conversion.

 

Can Moodeaudio play network files? I'm not planning to use any usb source to input files into the RPi. All cabled network.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

Both Volumio and Moode allow to access network shares on the LAN, eg using Samba.
 

I use Moode and you can see below the "Sources" configuration file in Moode 4.4.

I'm using Samba shares, but as you can see it supports both Windows/Unix Samba shares and Unix NFS shares:

[carlmart]

I never used Samba. Is it easy to setup?

[carlmart]

1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

I strongly suggest you break the 5V USB connection between the RPI and your DAC. I believe the D50 has its own power supply, in which case you can block the 5V pin on the USB A connector, or use a USB cable with no 5V power connection. This tweak will make a bigger difference than DSD conversion. The RPI USB bus is pretty poor.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the +5V wire on the USB cable. I will certainly cut it from my audio USB cables. I'm using a very good linear supply on the Topping D50.

 

Pity it's so difficult to eliminate or bypass the RPi's DC-DC regulators. Even if you power it with a linear supply, the regulators will affect the audio quality. Of course, that's only important if you do any DAC conversion inside the RPi.

[franz159]

24 minutes ago, carlmart said:

I never used Samba. Is it easy to setup?

 

I installed Moode so that Samba is available "out of the box" with no configuration.

I then decided to "tweak" its configuration to make the share usable in read/write mode, adding a few lines in file "/etc/samba/smb.conf":

[Seagate2T-Music]
comment = USB Storage Music Folder
path = /media/Seagate2T/Music
read only = No
guest ok = Yes
writeable = Yes
create mask = 0777
directory mask = 0777
browseable = Yes
public = yes

 

[carlmart]

Please excuse my ignorance. Moode and Samba are installed on the PC or on the RPi?

[franz159]

4 hours ago, carlmart said:

Please excuse my ignorance. Moode and Samba are installed on the PC or on the RPi?

On the RPi, which is always switched on, no pc needed at all!

[carlmart]

For now I need the PC, as the fles are on it.

 

Then I will assemble a separate server on another computer, that will work as server for PC and RPi.

 

So the RPi will see the files folders wherever they are, through Samba? And Moode will play them?

[carlmart]

Another program I was recommended was Squeezebox, that uses Picoreplayer.

 

Has anybody used it? Apparently it can run DSD up to 256.

[Daverz]

35 minutes ago, carlmart said:

Another program I was recommended was Squeezebox, that uses Picoreplayer.

 

Has anybody used it? Apparently it can run DSD up to 256.

 

Yes, I've played DSD256 DSF files thru my piCorePlayer (RPi 3B) into my Vega DAC.  Currently I have it connected wirelessly to my LMS server, which is in my loft.  Works great, sounds great.

 

I haven't tried running LMS on the RPi.  I would be concerned about scanning speeds for a large library in that case, either with network or local storage.

[franz159]

7 hours ago, Daverz said:

 

Yes, I've played DSD256 DSF files thru my piCorePlayer (RPi 3B) into my Vega DAC.  Currently I have it connected wirelessly to my LMS server, which is in my loft.  Works great, sounds great.

 

I haven't tried running LMS on the RPi.  I would be concerned about scanning speeds for a large library in that case, either with network or local storage.

 

I have two RPI  systems:

1. in one I use Moode, connected to a USB dac
2. in the other I use squuezelite on Audio Linux or squeezelite PicorePlayer
   • I have not decided yet which one I prefer sonically....

I do a lot of streaming from Qobuz, but in both cases above, my FLAC music library resides on a third raspberry in my LAN, with a USB disk attached, about 45000 flac files / 3500 album, including some DDS 64 or 128.

 

When using Moode, the content of the disk is shared using Samba.

When using LMS, the content of the disk has been indexed and is then shared directly by LMS 

Both with Moode and LMS I can play DSD 64 or 128. I never tried DSD 256, but I suspect it will be near the limit if what you can do with a Raspberry.

 

[carlmart]

How do you proceed and what do you need to install Squeezebox (and its different alternatives) on the RPi for a cabled interface?

 

As I said, I won't be playing any directly plugged in usb source. USB only for output or operation.

 

Neither will I play anything wireless.

[franz159]

First of all, you need to install LMS (Logitech Media Server) anywhere in your network.

The installation on a Raspberry running raspbian would be something like this:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
sudo apt-get install libio-socket-ssl-perl libnet-libidn-perl libnet-ssleay-perl perl-openssl-defaults
cd
mkdir lms
cd lms
wget http://downloads.slimdevices.com/LogitechMediaServer_v7.9.1/logitechmediaserver_7.9.1_all.deb
sudo dpkg -i logitechmediaserver_7.9.1_all.deb
cd /media/
mkdir playlists
sudo mkdir playlists
sudo chmod 777 playlists/

Of course in slimdevices download folder for latest 7.9.1 LMS version

http://downloads.slimdevices.com/LogitechMediaServer_v7.9.1/

you can find also version of other OS (Windows exe, Mac OS pkg, etc....) should you prefer to install LMS on any of them.

 

Then you need to install the player part.

On a Raspberry,  Moode does also provide  (as one of its many functions) the squeezelite renderer,  but the easiest would be for sure to use  piCorePlayer,  downloading it from here and then burning a SD card to boot the raspberry with.

[skikirkwood]

I have several networked streamer setups in my house:

 

- Raspberry Pi with IQAudio DAC+ running piCorePlayer, with Logitech Media Server running on Pi with a USB drive of my local (23K track) library, mostly ALAC, some HD Flac

- Raspberry Pi (with touchscreen) connected to a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC running piCorePlayer

- Raspberry Pi (with touchscreen) connected to a Schiit Modi DAC running piCorePlayer, output to a Magni headphone amp

- Raspberry Pi with Allo BOSS I2S DAC running Volumio

 

They all sound great! I just got the Allo BOSS and I have to say it sounds remarkable, possibly better than the $250 Schiit Modi Multibit.

 

First, let me say I was the primary contributor to the latest version of the Volumio Spotify plugin.  I like Volumio, it's really come a long way since the rewrite in Node.js with Volumio 2.  I also like piCorePlayer - it's rock solid and the open source Squeezelite and LMS software are very evolved, with a great ecosystem of plugins for the LMS.

 

The nice thing about the IQAudio DAC+ is it has a really good sounding headphone jack, although I couldn't resist getting a Modi and Magni from Schiit for $99 each.  Add a Raspberry Pi and Touchscreen and you have an incredible headphone setup.

 

I know in the audiophile world there are a lot of beliefs about what can improve sound quality, and I believe many are simply wrong.  I've tested running these Pis on batteries and can detect no difference in sound from the $10 AC adapters I use. I trust Archimago:

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/12/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-b-as.html

 

I never got Volumio working well with my Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, and really like the power of LMS and Squeezelite running on the very small piCorePlayer Linux distribution.  It only took a few minutes for the Pi to scan my 23,000 tracks on a connected USB drive. Volumio's scanning of music libraries is slower, but you only do it once.  For someone who hasn't used LMS, Volumio is a simpler starting point.

 

The good news is the hardware we're talking about here is really cheap, and you can just buy a few microSD cards, flash them with piCorePlayer, Volumio, Moode - whatever you want - and try them out and compare them to each other.  I will say that the Allo BOSS definitely sounds better than the IQAudio DAC+, and it will take some more time (just got it yesterday) before I conclude how it compares to the Schiit Modi Multibit.

 

I also believe that all network streamers sound alike (no flames from those who just spent $20K on one), so you should be suspicious of anyone claiming otherwise.

 

piCorePlayer makes it very easy to set up a Samba share, so I did that with the Pi that has the local USB drive, and then it was easy to connect to it with Volumio.  Volumio also magically finds UPnP and DLNA servers. I have Plex running on yet a different Pi, and Volumio found the media on it automagically.

 

[Daverz]

19 hours ago, Daverz said:

 

Yes, I've played DSD256 DSF files thru my piCorePlayer (RPi 3B) into my Vega DAC.  Currently I have it connected wirelessly to my LMS server, which is in my loft.  Works great, sounds great.

 

I haven't tried running LMS on the RPi.  I would be concerned about scanning speeds for a large library in that case, either with network or local storage.

 

Aplologies for my confusion, but my Vega will only play DSD128, so I've never played DSD256.

 

In any case, I've decided to convert all my DSF files to PCM because they won't play with digital room correction.

[audiobomber]

3 hours ago, skikirkwood said:

I've tested running these Pis on batteries and can detect no difference in sound from the $10 AC adapters I use.

Have you tried separating the DAC power from the Pi USB 5V power? That is where the improvement is IME. Upgrading power to the Pi did not make a difference for me either. It was only when I used a dual head USB cord and a separate power leg for my iFi Audio DAC that I heard an improvement.

 

Regarding whether all these things sound the same, I would just mention that the higher the resolution of the system, the more differences appear. My secondary system is pretty forgiving of changes. My main system shows the differences very clearly. 

[skikirkwood]

21 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

Have you tried separating the DAC power from the Pi USB 5V power? That is where the improvement is IME. Upgrading power to the Pi did not make a difference for me either. It was only when I used a dual head USB cord and a separate power leg for my iFi Audio DAC that I heard an improvement.

 

Regarding whether all these things sound the same, I would just mention that the higher the resolution of the system, the more differences appear. My secondary system is pretty forgiving of changes. My main system shows the differences very clearly. 

 

Hi Audiobomber, hey, I don't want to start a flaming war here, I was just giving some friendly advice to a newbie that they should really research their options and do their homework before any tweaking of things.  I haven't tried separating the DAC power as you suggested.

 

Perhaps it would help, but I really doubt it. After reading all of Archimago's posts and the results of his testing I just don't believe that I would hear an improvement.  Yes, I'm 61 years old, I have only invested $18K or so in my stereo system, ... so it could be a lack of golden ears and not a high enough resolving system.  Or it could be my bias that I don't believe in the noise and jitter boogeymen that so many audiophiles fret over.

 

I posted this article on Medium a while ago, and you'll understand better where I'm coming from after reading it:

 

https://medium.com/@skikirkwood/truth-lies-and-fraud-in-the-audiophile-world-a365e56c97c4

[audiobomber]

6 hours ago, skikirkwood said:

 

Hi Audiobomber, hey, I don't want to start a flaming war here, I was just giving some friendly advice to a newbie that they should really research their options and do their homework before any tweaking of things.  I haven't tried separating the DAC power as you suggested.

 

Perhaps it would help, but I really doubt it. After reading all of Archimago's posts and the results of his testing I just don't believe that I would hear an improvement.  Yes, I'm 61 years old, I have only invested $18K or so in my stereo system, ... so it could be a lack of golden ears and not a high enough resolving system.  Or it could be my bias that I don't believe in the noise and jitter boogeymen that so many audiophiles fret over.

I read your blog. I don't always follow or agree with audiophiles or the audiophile press. Nor do I blindly follow Archimago or Amirm or other objectivists. My experience after decades as an audiophile is that measurements don't tell the whole story, but subjectivist views are subject to bias, as you note. Neither side is right all of the time.  I listen critically for myself in my system, with my music, for an extended period, and I cross-check whenever possible.

 

I suggest you try separating the RPI power from your DAC. It was fruitful for me. If you don't hear any difference, then fair enough, it's not useful for you. Not trying it and saying it doesn't matter because of measurements is not something I can agree with. 

[Miska]

On 12/16/2018 at 9:26 AM, March Audio said:

8kHz USB packet noise and a bunch of other spuria.

 

 

This is why one builds galvanic isolation into DAC's USB interface..

 

[chauphuong]

15 hours ago, skikirkwood said:

I have several networked streamer setups in my house:

 

- Raspberry Pi with IQAudio DAC+ running piCorePlayer, with Logitech Media Server running on Pi with a USB drive of my local (23K track) library, mostly ALAC, some HD Flac

- Raspberry Pi (with touchscreen) connected to a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC running piCorePlayer

- Raspberry Pi (with touchscreen) connected to a Schiit Modi DAC running piCorePlayer, output to a Magni headphone amp

- Raspberry Pi with Allo BOSS I2S DAC running Volumio

 

They all sound great! I just got the Allo BOSS and I have to say it sounds remarkable, possibly better than the $250 Schiit Modi Multibit.

 

First, let me say I was the primary contributor to the latest version of the Volumio Spotify plugin.  I like Volumio, it's really come a long way since the rewrite in Node.js with Volumio 2.  I also like piCorePlayer - it's rock solid and the open source Squeezelite and LMS software are very evolved, with a great ecosystem of plugins for the LMS.

 

The nice thing about the IQAudio DAC+ is it has a really good sounding headphone jack, although I couldn't resist getting a Modi and Magni from Schiit for $99 each.  Add a Raspberry Pi and Touchscreen and you have an incredible headphone setup.

 

I know in the audiophile world there are a lot of beliefs about what can improve sound quality, and I believe many are simply wrong.  I've tested running these Pis on batteries and can detect no difference in sound from the $10 AC adapters I use. I trust Archimago:

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/12/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-b-as.html

 

I never got Volumio working well with my Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, and really like the power of LMS and Squeezelite running on the very small piCorePlayer Linux distribution.  It only took a few minutes for the Pi to scan my 23,000 tracks on a connected USB drive. Volumio's scanning of music libraries is slower, but you only do it once.  For someone who hasn't used LMS, Volumio is a simpler starting point.

 

The good news is the hardware we're talking about here is really cheap, and you can just buy a few microSD cards, flash them with piCorePlayer, Volumio, Moode - whatever you want - and try them out and compare them to each other.  I will say that the Allo BOSS definitely sounds better than the IQAudio DAC+, and it will take some more time (just got it yesterday) before I conclude how it compares to the Schiit Modi Multibit.

 

I also believe that all network streamers sound alike (no flames from those who just spent $20K on one), so you should be suspicious of anyone claiming otherwise.

 

piCorePlayer makes it very easy to set up a Samba share, so I did that with the Pi that has the local USB drive, and then it was easy to connect to it with Volumio.  Volumio also magically finds UPnP and DLNA servers. I have Plex running on yet a different Pi, and Volumio found the media on it automagically.

 

Have you ever tried removing the SMPS converter on Pi2 or Pi3 and supplying linear currents of 5V, 3.3V and 1.8V directly to Pi boards ? And DigiOne powered separately by batteries? You will be more than surprised.

[carlmart]

17 hours ago, skikirkwood said:

I know in the audiophile world there are a lot of beliefs about what can improve sound quality, and I believe many are simply wrong.  I've tested running these Pis on batteries and can detect no difference in sound from the $10 AC adapters I use. I trust Archimago:

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/12/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-b-as.html

 

 

You are assuming that boxed batteries, those that are used to charge cellular phones and have USB outputs and inputs, provide "battery power", pure DC, but they do not. They have a DC-DC converter-regulator inside, so they should also be considered switching supplies. I added  this comment on the archimago review too.

 

If you want to compare external switching supplies to batteries you should get a 5v battery, assembled with a series of elements to get to 5v, add an usb connection and plug that.

 

But it happens that the "real" problem is not just the external power supply type, but that the Raspberry has an internal DC-DC supply, just after the power input, that provides all the voltages to the board. That is what should be changed. I don't know if someone did and provided noise and other results data.

 

From what I've seen elsewhere on this forum, one of the first things that is changed for "audiophile" computers is replacing the external usual switching supply with a multi-voltage linear supply. And all the external devices used, like streaming boxes and else, also carry linear external supplies. 

 

But seeing I can't do nothing on my RPi to change that, this discussion is only theoretical. I will only use an external linear supply to power the Raspberry, and that's all.

[carlmart]

1 hour ago, chauphuong said:

Have you ever tried removing the SMPS converter on Pi2 or Pi3 and supplying linear currents of 5V, 3.3V and 1.8V directly to Pi boards ? And DigiOne powered separately by batteries? You will be more than surprised.

 

Has anyone tried that? Parts are so small, that the chance of bricking the Raspberry is very high.

 

Once again, do not look at battery power as noiseless solution, except if using separate battery-series, capacitor bypassed. Battery boxes have DC-DC regulators inside, so they are not noiseless. They are just a different kind of switching supply.

[carlmart]

Now let's go back to implementing the Raspberry with different streaming systems.

 

To start with, I'm not familiar with Linux, and the only thing I know is that you boot it with an OS, using a CD or SD card. In the RPi we use an SD card. So please be patient with my effort to understand how to do things.

 

1) Which is the best Linux OS system to flash for this application?

 

2) What format should we use on the SD cards?

 

3) After flashing the OS, do we add the audio/streaming programs on each card? Why can't we put them all on the same SD card and run the one we want?

 

4) skikirkwood, which are the touchscreen you are using on your RPis?

 

Once again, please forgive my basic questions. In the past I just used Linux on my PC, running Linux from CD.

 

 

 

[chauphuong]

54 minutes ago, carlmart said:

 

Has anyone tried that? Parts are so small, that the chance of bricking the Raspberry is very high.

 

Once again, do not look at battery power as noiseless solution, except if using separate battery-series, capacitor bypassed. Battery boxes have DC-DC regulators inside, so they are not noiseless. They are just a different kind of switching supply.

Depends on skills, and not too difficult. By the way, I use Bakoon BPS 02 as batteries which I believe there is no DC converter inside.