Raspberry Pi as a music server?

[Giuanniello]

Hello everybody,

 

long story the shortest (...), I have a very vintage stereo system to whom I am finally going to add a DAC within xmas, got it as my present, the idea was to use an old MacMini as a music/movie server but found out that iTunes is very poor sound quality wise and the Mini is too old to run a recent software able to play lossless music (even tho there must sure be but I didn't look too much for one) and the Mini is a little bit noisy, no big deal but if I could take less space and less punch in the eye and being able to use a higher quality sound output software to then stream the music to the DAC I'd be happier.

 

I know the Pi is a little powerhouse and saw many projects but the vast majority includes a DAC which I won't need so, to summarise, I only need a device capable to play music both locally (through a micro SD I suppose) and/or through a NAS and a software which can take advantage of high quality lossless music; I played with Audirvana for a little and I like it enough even tho some quirks, I haven't found a version to run on an old Mac OS but I'd like something similar whose interface can be run off a smartphone.

 

Hardware wise, what does it take to arrange such a thing? Besides the Pi, which so far I seem to understand being on a Rev 3+, I guess a sound card with either optical/usb/output, is that correct?

 

Any discussion to point me at so I can start and learn about it all?

 

Grazie

 

 

Giovanni

[Giuanniello]

Good morning everybody,

 

first off I learnt that what I am looking for is called a "transport" which makes things already easier when browsing through the many hardware producers's websites, the majority of the gear seems being oriented at DACs which I won't need since, after long wait (to collect funds and to find out which hardware could have fit my needs), I finally ordered a Beresford Caiman SEG with the dedicated power supply, I plan onto connecting to it a TV screen SPDIF output and to the computer or, if and when I will get one, a transport, it will also serve to convert the signal from the CD player eventually.

 

My listening chain, at the moment, consists of a Michell Gyrodec turntable with a Rega RB300 tonearm and Audio Tecnica AT3200XE pickup, Audio Research SP9 preamp, Aeron (chinese) twin KT88 tubes AP890, Sony X505ES CD player and JBL4311B speakers (being teased by a couple of JBL L220 which need restoration...), computer wise i either plug a MacBookAir to the SP9 through an RCA to mini DIN cable or same cable solution to an old MacMini which I thought I could use as a media server but found out that iTunes sounds amazingly bad and that the Mini is probably too old to run a more modern software to better take advantage of the FLAC/ALAC quality and as such the need of a transport to make things easier (not more complicated!!!).

 

A Pi would also mean smaller footprint, so far I understand I will still need a power adapter to feed the Pi, reading your above posts seems that 5V 3A is what it takes and many of the kits already include it, then I gotta focus onto a transport and an audio board, so far I understand the USB being shared along with the ETH on the Pi and as such a dedicated board would fix the issue, I will need an audio board with the SPDIF output and/or a clean USB one, dunno which would allow better sound quality and flexibility given I am going to use an external DAC.

 

Yes, an enclosure with a touch screen would make things even easier but using a mobile or a laptop to control the box would not be big deal, still better than to have to switch the TV on and using a mouse to control the Mini.

 

I have seen Volumio's store, nice gear and ready to play ones.

 

Well, let me know if I got it right till now, a transport being what I need, a Pi at the bottom and a sound card on top, still need of that board to get rid of the jitter on the USB/ETH?

 

Player wise I think no big deal to have a couple SDs to try different ones.

 

Music wise I'd like to have it stored locally, won't like to have another box with another power adapter and more cables, other way round, I want to make it all easier with the less possible cables and plugs, I have a NAS onto which I can put the music to be streamed if the process is not too complicated but was wondering if possible to have music being read off the SD card itself.

 

Thank you all for the patience

 

Have a nice Sunday

 

 

Giovanni

[Giuanniello]

@March Audio So, to start on the simple RPI3+ should do the job, is that correct? Then if I want I can add a board with the SPDIF output, again, correct?

 

@Thuaveta I checked Roon for NAS but my old TS212P is not supported, slow CPUs and poor on RAM too, too bad, it would have been interesting to find out.

 

By the way, to start with I'd need an RPI and a power supply, I am looking at a linear 5v 3+ Amps one to be future proof, will then look up for the RPI and a few micro SD cards as to be able to try different softwares.

 

I have the router very close by so I could run an ETH cable and then plug the USB into the DAC, will then have to figure how to stream the music to the RPI, NAS, memory card...

[Giuanniello]

@Thuaveta I found out Roon wants a subscription even tho there is a 2 weeks trial, I am not into this, not at the moment, I don't want to bother with registrations and so on, wanna first test hassle free ones and once I have a running Pi might want to try other solutions and a NUC is not on the plan, I wanna be wiser with money, already ordered the DAC which got me already out of budget so I'd like to keep things the simplest and with the better price/quality ratio to begin with, I already thought the MacMini could serve the purpose but didn't imagine iTunes might sound so bad ? and I am not aware of softwares which play FLAC music which can run on a so old OS as Mountain Lion which is what my Mini runs.

 

@March Audio Great! At this stage what would be the easiest route to buy the Pi, going for the usual Amazon and get the Pi with a power supply or go through one of the sellers who assembly plug and play hardware to make sure all the needed is there?

[Giuanniello]

19 hours ago, left channel said:

The free LMS (Logitech Media Server, formerly Squeezebox Server) will run on your Mac Mini, and supports FLAC libraries as well most streaming services including Hi-Res from Qobuz. No additional hardware required, but you can put clients on RasPi and other boxes if you wish.

 

Ok, I downloaded and install the LMS on my Mini which, by the way, runs a Core Duo 2 CPU which I upgraded from a Core Duo so it won't install any other OS higher than Snow Leopard but I am fine with it if it does what I wish it to do which is simply to act as a media streamer for music, movie wise I have them on the NAS and use Infuse to stream over the Apple TV4.

 

Now, once I have the server up and running, how can I control it off an iPhone to make things easy, I guess there is an iOS app but I can't manage to find it.

 

Grazie

[Giuanniello]

14 hours ago, March Audio said:

 

I would buy the Pi, case, Psu and an 8Gb micro Sd card (one with a micro to standard size SD adaptor so you can plug it into your pc / laptop to write the software). You can buy starter bundles. 

 

It is very easy to get this running. Download the Volumio image. Write it to the SD card with the recommended free software. Plug sd card into Pi. Turn on. Access Volumio through Internet browser, set up media library and start playing music.  15 minute job. 

 

I'll sure get one, be it to stream music or something else (I am also a HAM so another Pi related project was to arrange a digital radio receiver, that tiny thing seems to be able to do a lot of things), I don't want to overload my pocket for xmas, still have to find out what to get my son as a present, I got the dog a nice bunch of food and a brush and myself that DAC I was thinking of since quite a while, now I will keep making treasure of all of your suggestions (as well as those onto an Italian hifi forum) and next going to give it a try.

 

Grazie a tutti

[Giuanniello]

I'm giving up the idea of the Mini as a music server, too noisy, a Pi "disco" will be the path past xmas then eventually HAT boards to add cleaner output or being relegated to something else if even this solution doesn't fit.

 

Grazie

[Giuanniello]

@left channel I was referring to the fan's noise not to mention the SQ out of iTunes isn't that great, not worth to keep that much space occupied to get this much frustrated, I do sure want to play with a Pi and you'll sure see me back asking a ton more questions about it.

 

 

[Giuanniello]

Just a question, is it possible to also have music files on the SD card along with the OS and transport software?

 

Grazie

[Giuanniello]

19 hours ago, March Audio said:

I believe it should be possible but probably easier to use a USB thumb drive. 

 

Well, I thought so, I will try with a thumb drive and then move onto the NAS hopefully if I manage to make it work.

 

Grazie

[Giuanniello]

Hello,

 

I wouldn't want to start a new thread so I try to continue on this one, I am evaluating to order a Pi 3B+ (or whatever is called the newest one) along with a case and a couple microSD to try different players, the DAC is already home so no DAC HAT needed, the only other thing I'd need is a power adapter and I am running short of AC outlets ? I will of course get another multiple AC adapters (I don't know how are they called in English but you know what I mean) but I was thinking, does it make sense to get a power bank to power the Pi or just go ahead with a wall PSU (does a linear one make so much of a difference? I guess not but I rather hear from who has first hand experience). I know a power bank will be an extra expense and also need a wall charger so one extra brick which I'd rather avoid so what would be the best (and cheapest) way to power it?

 

Grazie and happy new year everybody

[Giuanniello]

@franz159Hello Franz, good morning,

 

I understand the Pi not needing that much power at all that's why the thought of a power bank but rather than to add another brick I'd prefer to save space and cables, already too many around and with the arrival of the DAC (the Caiman SEG) and its dedicated power supply it is getting too complicated with too many cables but, unfortunately, whilst the DAC needs 12-15v the Pi only needs 5 and as such two adapters are needed.

 

I don't expect a cable to "increase" sound quality so go figure a power supply, I mean, they can sure detract if not properly made but to increase quality I see it hard of a duty for a cable or a power supply, at least in my case where the remaining part of the chain is not what you would probably call "revelatory".

 

This said I don't even want to fork out 100 bucks to power a 35 euro tool given that will be its only use so forget about branded stuff still made with Chinese circuitry (and probably also built in China and rebranded) so the choice will sure fall onto a linear PSU but nothing "audiophile" and maybe will be my first attempt at buying through Ali ?

 

Back to the Pi I was reading the 3B+ needing 5.1V, I understand a .1 won't make a difference but just to make sure I eventually get the right tool, 5Vcc and 3A should do pretty well uh?! 

 

I got a radio HAM license when I was in my 20s and used to play with radios for quite a while, I still have a power supply from that age, what a monster, 12v variable and 30Ah output, it took 20 years old age strength to move it around, when recently I got again the idea to play with radios I didn't want such a heavy (and expensive) thing and got a switching one, it sure is small but noisy, very very noisy and if I am gonna get a Pi rather than my old Mac mini (which would be perfect for the intent) is because I don't want to even hear the cpu cooling fan spinning...

 

Grazie Franz, wishing you to jump straight into a better new year than the one we are saying good bye to, not sure Italy will be doing better than the past year but let's keep fingers crossed and enjoy music (till it's free ? )

 

Giovanni

[Giuanniello]

@chauphuong that's an interesting point so either the wall power supply or the multimillion-dollar one won't give much difference for the stock Pi, is the removal of the converter an easy DIY thing?

 

@franz159 @chauphuong The IanCanada projects are very interesting but since I already got a DAC (and didn't read the whole thread on the DIY forum) would it make sense to get the Pi with a normal power supply and then, eventually, upgrade by removing (if DIY feasible by a noob) the converter and upgrading to the IanCanada board?

 

To me the idea of the Pi gotta be simple, if connection with the NAS or memory device to store music is simple and reliable along with a way to control the player through an iOS device (ideally the iPhone) and the sound is equal or better than the MacBookAir connected via USB to my DAC then I'd sure evaluate dropping the computer and investing in an upgraded Pi but simplicity and audio quality gotta be on par of the MBAir at least and upgrades not costing like a high end piece of equipment.

 

Your hints very interesting and fun to find an Italian member on here (as well as on the Italian boards where we met ? )

 

Please go ahead with your suggestions, the Pi project is gonna take place somewhere after second week of the coming new year so if you give me hints at where to start from it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best

 

Giovanni

[Giuanniello]

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

@Giuanniello Ciao Giovanni, thanks.

 

@franz159 Ciao Franz, buongiorno.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

 

I'll try to answer based on my personal experience.

 

How I get to know Ian Canada

After reading a lot about the improvements you can get with a better, less noisy power of the source, I stumbled into Ian  Canada projects. My DIY abilities are limited, so I started simple: I bought from Ian the IsolatorPi and on eBay a cheap 50$ linear 5v PSU:
IsolatorPi is a Single Board Computer (SBC) HAT for RaspberryPi’s or ODROID’s that provides galvanic isolation for I2S, I2C, ID and power between the SBC and the digital audio card. It prevents transmission of SBC EMI noise via the ground and signal connection. 

Without having "bat ears", it was easy to empirically verify the benefit of using the IsolatorPi.

This latest project of "clever" battery PSU with different voltages goes beyond my personal DIY skills, but it seems very promising IMHO. But if you are interested, have a look at the group buy thread, which has been already in progress for a month or so.

 

This Canadian project sounds like able to add a lot of improvements, I'll try and read more about it, the interesting bit to start with would be the IsolatorPi to check if separate power supply can really add improvements, I think that no matter how good it can be it always depends on the rest of the chain if differences might be audible, at least dunno how would it be in my case since my chain is pretty old with JBL4311b at the bottom of the chain and Audio Research SP9 at the top with a Beresford Caiman SEG as a DAC and almost only main input source since my beautiful and improved Sony CD X505ES sees little to no use at all and the fabulous Michell Gyrodec doesn't have room to constantly sit next to the preamp and as such does it as a beautiful (and bulky) dust collector.

 

I found the Twitter page about the Canadian boards, do they also have a website to read specs?

 

 

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

 

The idea of the Pi gotta be simple

I completely marry this point of view and this is why I have been using Moode  software distro on raspberry for a few years now.

All the points you mention are met in my opinion:

1. connection with the NAS or memory device to store music is simple and reliable
   • yes, my "NAS" is another raspberry with a 2Tb disk attached, shared on the LAN, but of course, you can use your QNAP, SInology or whatever real NAS you do have

 

I actually use a QNap to serve as a file storage so I can stream movies to the AppleTVs, I would then move the FLAC music onto it to stream to the Pi and then to the DAC.

 

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

1.  a way to control the player through an iOS device (ideally the iPhone)
   • you can control Moode on raspberry "headless" with whatever browser you have on iPhone, iPad, Android device, PC, MAC....  the most difficult part is probably to find out the IP assigned by the DHCP service to the raspberry!

 

 

Isn't it any of these players having ain iOS app and not having to use a browser instead?

 

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

1. the sound is equal or better than the MacBookAir connected via USB to my DAC 
   • I used to have with Audirvana on my MacBook Air, but the sound I get with Raspberry now is virtually indistinguishable

 

The thing which does a difference is the possibility to use a sound equaliser, especially when playing electronic music (...) I often have to pull down the lower end of the audio spectrum, I think they believe that the boom boom makes music (...) more attractive 😎

 

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

1. dropping the computer
   • that was my main reason to start experimenting with the raspberry, I use my MacBook for many other things (mainly for work!) 
2. upgrades not costing like a high end piece of equipment
   • when talking of raspberry related pieces the single upgrade is generally not costly... but please be advised that the game can become addictive because it is "so inexpensive" you start experimenting with a lot of different things   
     Mentioning a few examples from my experience
     • how does Volumio sound, is it better or worse than Moode?
     • let me try the HiFiBerry i2s/SPDIF transport into my new Chord MoJo Dac
       • Nice comparable with Audivana!
     • As a simple HAT (Hardware on Top) Dac, Allo Boss 1.2 is really good, probably one of the best dac for raspberry currently available
     • But Allo Boss allows for separate powering of Raspberry and Dac....maybe a relatively inexpensive Linear PSU from Audiophinics will work magic
     • When using USB, they say USB on raspberry is noisy, maybe Uptone USB Regen will help to improve
       • I tried this and sold it, not that much of a difference in my case.
       • I do not know if other devices of this type (Uptone ISO Regen, Intona USB isolator, IFI iGalvanic or iPurifier...) might be better, but I felt as if they make the audio chain too complicated. I like simplicity (Occam razor reminiscence?)
     • HiFiBerry Digi was really good but maybe AlloDigi One is less noisy the HiFiberry....
       • Allo DigiOne Signature is expensive but surely even better....
     • According to that guy in that forum if you use HdPlex 200 to power the dirty and clean side of DigiOne Signature the result is jaw dropping.... 
        

The last two items with DigiOne have not happened yet for me but......

 

Where to start?

If you already have an external DAC either you start with a plain raspberry through USB, or by adding a transport like Allo DigiOne (Signature version if budget allows) through COAX.

And then you start playing with power options....

 

Good luck!

 

Franz

PS: where are you based? Giuanniello also sounds Italian....

 

It sounds Italian but it rather is Neapolitan 😉

 

19 hours ago, franz159 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Well as usual there is a lot of room for improvements but I'd go back to the limitations of my sound system and ask those who, like you, have first hand experience which are the ones which would add evident improvements; I tend to avoid overcomplicating (with no results apparently...) things so I'd like to hear from you guys once I get the Pi (gonna order it within couple days because a tube off of my power amp is gone and have to get a couple new ones so I'd place just one order for it all to have toys to play with onto delivery...) and the power supply (please confirm it gotta be 5v, would an extra volt make damage?) what would be a tangible improvement to add to it to give me SQ my ears would notice?

 

Also, since I am also buying mSD card to host the OS how many different ones would you advise to test, I understand from your experience Moode would make it but I also read a lot about Volumio, is there any other I should give a try and which size mSD would make it, 8GB or what it the minimum to host the OS?

 

Well, weather forecast was pretty spot on, nice bright and sunny day but freezing cold wind blowing from North which also smashed one of my plants vases on the floor so as soon as it cools a bit I will power on some music and take care of the plant.

 

You all have a great day!!!

 

 

Giovanni from the gulf of Naples (that's not the view out of my house, I wish...)

[Giuanniello]

Going to somehow partially reply to my own above post re input voltage for the Pi, it gotta be 5V, period! So no other voltages  are allowed but I just found out I have an Apple A1357 power supply which is rated 5.1Vcc 2A max, given to begin with I would only use the Pi as a music server with no HATs would it suffice? Seems so from the Raspberry website but I rather hear from you if I can delay adding a dedicated PSU.

 

Grazie