Tale of Two Dacs... we'll maybe three

[creativepart]

I listen to digital about 50% of the time. But that percentage is increasing mostly due to Tidal. The rest of the time I'm a vinyl guy. Hey, I'm going to be 69 soon, so what can I say.

 

I have had a Benchmark Dac1 USB for a dozen years or so. I liked it. As I got more and more into computer audio I used it more and more. Then to experiment with MQA (don't start) I bought a Meridian Explorer2. I didn't like it better than the Benchmark, but I did like MQA (as I said, don't start).

 

I got the itch to try something new but not too expensive. I bought a Pro Ject PreBox S2 Digital for $400. Woah, I like this one. Nice smooth sound and lots of capability.

 

Around the same time I started using Roon instead of Audirvana Pro. I like the Pro Ject even more. Then I bought a SoTM Sms 200 and stopped using the USB on my iMac.

 

I liked it all. It was all sounding good. Better much better in fact.

 

Then I wanted to try some more "cheap" stuff and bought a Schiit Modi Multibit a couple of weeks ago. I liked that too and it was only $250.

 

So, after two weeks in the Schiit I went back to the Pro Ject. Woah, it's as good as the Mimby maybe better.

 

Then today I went back to the Benchmark Dac1 USB. Ugh. Now I know it's not so great anymore.

 

Part of me wants to buy a Qutest, or a Brooklyn + or a Yaggy (!) but those are much bigger commitments, financially.

Oh, I know by posting this you folks will suggest 40-eleven other Dacs that I've never heard of. Maybe I'll just go back to one of my 3 Turntables and listen to some vinyl for a while.

[Ralf11]

iFi ??

[wanta911]

Why not stick with the S2? You seem to like it, there are positive reviews and it was designed by someone well known in the industry.

 

 

[creativepart]

6 minutes ago, wanta911 said:

Why not stick with the S2? You seem to like it, there are positive reviews and it was designed by someone well known in the industry.

 

 

Well, if $400 can do this. What can $2000 do that's better?

 

I guess that's why. But mostly I'm thinking out loud and wondering... Pre Box S2 Digital vs. Modi Multibit, two very different Dacs. One Sabre ES the other Ladder Dac. I should prefer one or the other because of their basic differences - at least it seems that way to me.

 

I wonder if other people have experience with these two dacs and can help clarify things.

[Ralf11]

Benchmark Dac2 used or ...3 ??

 

There are lots of choices under $2k

[wanta911]

33 minutes ago, creativepart said:

Well, if $400 can do this. What can $2000 do that's better?

 

Probably not a lot in my experience, especially if you're looking for huge difference. Of course there will be differences but will they be subjectively "better" or significant enough to justify the additional expenditure?

 

33 minutes ago, creativepart said:

Pre Box S2 Digital vs. Modi Multibit, two very different Dacs. One Sabre ES the other Ladder Dac. I should prefer one or the other because of their basic differences - at least it seems that way to me.

 

I own a Metrum Pavane NOS DAC that I have had for 3 years and recently acquired a Chord Qutest - 2 very different DACs that I have been comparing over the last 6 weeks. Yes it is easy to differentiate the presentation of each and they both do a great job according to their individual sound signatures. So which one is "better"? Well that depends on the material you are playing - the genre, the mastering etc. They both have their strengths & weaknesses. TBH if someone took one of them away I'd be quite happy living with the other.

 

I even have a Topping D50 that you can get for under 300 bucks and I'm amazed at how good it is for the price. Is it as good as the Qutest? The answer is no - not quite, but we aren't talking about night and day difference here. Is that cherry on the top worth another $1500?

 

There's a lot of enabling on these forums....I'm just trying to play devil's advocate ?

[creativepart]

Thanks @wanta911, that was helpful.

Many thanks

[4est]

12 hours ago, wanta911 said:

There's a lot of enabling on these forums....I'm just trying to play devil's advocate ?

I really think you ought to buy a 911...

[Norton]

14 hours ago, creativepart said:

Well, if $400 can do this. What can $2000 do that's better?

 

In my experience, what you are buying with a (well chosen) pricier DAC is a lower noise floor so more of the detail and nuance of the music comes through, plus better power supplies and output stage to provide a more substantial “3D” sound, giving more sense of reproducing a live musical performance in your listening room.

 

Percussion and large scale choral  music are particularly good tests of these attributes.

 

I owned the Project  for a while.  I can’t think of a better DAC for the money, but careful investment in a better DAC will certainly yield unsubtle improvements in SQ.  On the other hand, a pricier DAC  isn’t automatically a better DAC.

 

 

[Ralf11]

I now have to ask...

 

how (or to what extent) does a lower noise floor affect orchestral vs. non-orchestral music?

[creativepart]

You folks have been most helpful. Thanks so much.

 

No decisions yet, but more research to do.

Thanks!

[wanta911]

6 hours ago, 4est said:

I really think you ought to buy a 911...

 

....and if I still had my original B&W 685s being fed by my old CD player and AVR, I could probably afford to ?

[Ralf11]

7 hours ago, 4est said:

I really think you ought to buy a 911...

 

Definitely more fun than a 991, 997, 996, or 964  ?

[Miska]

If you want to stick with a DAC that has MQA things, and has similar sonic properties as the S2, I'd suggest trying out Mytek Brooklyn DAC+.

 

But for that, and the other DACs you listed, I'd strongly recommend to get test/loaner units at home and give them a listen against the DACs you already have and like...

 

[beerandmusic]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:48 PM, creativepart said:

I listen to digital about 50% of the time. But that percentage is increasing mostly due to Tidal. The rest of the time I'm a vinyl guy. Hey, I'm going to be 69 soon, so what can I say.

 

I have had a Benchmark Dac1 USB for a dozen years or so. I liked it. As I got more and more into computer audio I used it more and more. Then to experiment with MQA (don't start) I bought a Meridian Explorer2. I didn't like it better than the Benchmark, but I did like MQA (as I said, don't start).

 

I got the itch to try something new but not too expensive. I bought a Pro Ject PreBox S2 Digital for $400. Woah, I like this one. Nice smooth sound and lots of capability.

 

Around the same time I started using Roon instead of Audirvana Pro. I like the Pro Ject even more. Then I bought a SoTM Sms 200 and stopped using the USB on my iMac.

 

I liked it all. It was all sounding good. Better much better in fact.

 

Then I wanted to try some more "cheap" stuff and bought a Schiit Modi Multibit a couple of weeks ago. I liked that too and it was only $250.

 

So, after two weeks in the Schiit I went back to the Pro Ject. Woah, it's as good as the Mimby maybe better.

 

Then today I went back to the Benchmark Dac1 USB. Ugh. Now I know it's not so great anymore.

 

Part of me wants to buy a Qutest, or a Brooklyn + or a Yaggy (!) but those are much bigger commitments, financially.

Oh, I know by posting this you folks will suggest 40-eleven other Dacs that I've never heard of. Maybe I'll just go back to one of my 3 Turntables and listen to some vinyl for a while.

 

I have tried a dozen dacs, and still go back to my vinyl occasionally...not frequently but i do appreciate it every time i do.

If you don't care about DSD, i liked the schiit multibits, but my desire to include native DSD support won out.

The dac that I am most curious about in your list is the Qutest.  Miska also recommends the RME, so may want to add to your shortlist as well....good luck keep us updated....

 

EDIT TO ADD>>>i see Miska responded already, and suggested the mytek...i guess that is based on your higher budget than mine (wink)....either way, i would trust Miska.

[firedog]

If you like MQA you should check out the iFi iDSD Pro. It's a full featured (and more) DAC, and gives you a choice (unlike the Mytek, which requires you to manually change modes out of MQA mode) of whether to employ MQA filters or not. It even gives you the option of tube output if you want it. 
I'm guessing that if you liked the Project more than the other DACs, you will like the iFi more than some of the other ones mentioned. 

[beerandmusic]

6 hours ago, firedog said:

If you like MQA you should check out the iFi iDSD Pro. It's a full featured (and more) DAC, and gives you a choice (unlike the Mytek, which requires you to manually change modes out of MQA mode) of whether to employ MQA filters or not. It even gives you the option of tube output if you want it. 
I'm guessing that if you liked the Project more than the other DACs, you will like the iFi more than some of the other ones mentioned. 

+1 I forgot that one...that is also one that has my interest, especially since it has enet in!!

[creativepart]

Thanks to all. I've decided to take a wait and see approach. I've ordered a Schiit Eitr and will run my Mimby via SPDIF from the Eitr directly from my iMac's USB output. And, I plan to get a good power supply for the Pro-Ject.

 

That way, I'll have both dacs and can live with them - and compare them - for a few more months.

 

The Pro-Ject is supposedly improved by better power. Currently, I'm using USB power from the SoTM SmS200. I've looked at Sbooster, but they appear to be sold out at present with more coming in. Also, Pro-Ject is coming out with a number of new S2 power supplies. One is battery power (Accur Box S2) and the other (Power Box S2) has 3 power outputs - 5v, 15v and 20v. But they are not available yet. However, they are on the website already :https://www.project-audio.com/en/category/hifi-electronics/s2-line/power-s2-line/

 

By ordering the Eitr, I intend to hopefully improve the already good Mimby by using SPDIF instead of USB. The "internets" seem to think the Mimby is improved by using SPDIF.

 

I'll have both Dacs setup as Roon Endpoints and go back and forth between them until I'm nauseous - or do something else.

 

PS. The Benchmark Dac1 USB is going to be offered up for sale.

[arcman]

On 11/28/2018 at 4:49 AM, firedog said:

If you like MQA you should check out the iFi iDSD Pro. It's a full featured (and more) DAC, and gives you a choice (unlike the Mytek, which requires you to manually change modes out of MQA mode) of whether to employ MQA filters or not. It even gives you the option of tube output if you want it. 
I'm guessing that if you liked the Project more than the other DACs, you will like the iFi more than some of the other ones mentioned. 

I do not see where the iFi supports MQA. 

 

EDIT: Never mind..firmware update has it....iFi is just not promoting MQA on their product site yet

[buonassi]

I thought the iFi iDAC2 was excellent - more precise and more analytical than mimby - yet not quite analytical.  It had good dynamics/slam, and a very clean incisive sweetness to it.  Sold the mimby a couple weeks later.  Sorry I can't comment on the project dac you have.  But iFi makes a very low noise switching PS that could take it even further (for $50 bucks).  

 

To speak to eitr and spdif - this was a game changer for me.  When I moved away from feeding USB into the DACs I own, it was revelatory.  Every DAC I've tried, when fed by Eitr or a singxer SU-1 sounds better, period.  But that's not to say there aren't some DACs out there that can handle USB just as good - I just haven't heard one yet (but I've only heard about 10 dacs in my entire hi-fi lifetime, so take it FWIW).  Even my metrum Amethyst is noticeably better with spdif.  So the 'interwebs' aren't lying ... this time. 

 

So the iDAC2 would be awesome IF IT ONLY HAD A COAX IN!  sadly, it doesn't.  it has a coax out, but its an 'afterthought' feature and doesn't sound as good as other converters. 

 

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 11/27/2018 at 1:48 AM, creativepart said:

Then I bought a SoTM Sms 200 and stopped using the USB on my iMac.

 

 

One of our tech guys did the very same thing just recently. He married his Pro to this SOtM, enabled DLNA/UPNP on it and literally lost his head. Quite an improvement over his laptop. 

 

   

 

[Shangri-La]

Switching from my MacBook Pro USB -> Toslink -> DLNA/UPNP made a substantial improvement in sound quality. 

[John Fitzpatrick]

On 1/4/2019 at 2:16 AM, Shangri-La said:

Switching from my MacBook Pro USB -> Toslink -> DLNA/UPNP made a substantial improvement in sound quality. 

So is really USB inferior to streaming these days?

[Shangri-La]

2 minutes ago, John Fitzpatrick said:

So is really USB inferior to streaming these days?

 

Not really. It was more becuase of my poor usb connection: directly from MAC, long (10ft) cable. A usb reclocker would probably help quite a bit. In the mean time, uPNP does have very good sound quality.

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 1/14/2019 at 8:09 PM, Shangri-La said:

A usb reclocker would probably help quite a bit.

 

It could, yes.