PeterSt Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 29 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: I am confident that you have a high power computer have optimized for noise I am sorry Beer, but this is not so at all. I wouldn't even know how to accomplish that. It's actually the contrary, if anything. The current Audio PC we provide lacks filters towards the mains. All right, it's a Linear PSU in there, but still the filters should be there. They are not in order to increase "speed" (PSU response). Yes, I am into controlling noise all over the place. But with USB not that I am aware of. And btw, don't take my approaches for granted - I am just someone else. Or, someone else trying to convince you of the subject not being legitimate. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
PeterSt Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 15 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: archimago found no errors with a $10 belkin cable and even with 50' extension cable....again, i would like to see if crc errors can be increased by injecting noise on system doing quad dsd processing. Same here, if that is what you like to hear. Now trust me on not wanting to sell anything ... Why is it so that a single USB cable with different shielding options sounds totally different for each of such a configuration ? they ALL show now errors anywhere, which is the least YOU would expect. Right ? So the sound of a USB cable is not about that. Probably it isn't even about the USB cable at all but merely about what it may cause to its environment. It also would nicely explain what otherwise is the most difficult to explain. USB errors do not cause a different in SQ unless at a relatively high rate (like once or more per second). You will hear them though, as ticks or scratches or dropouts. That too is SQ related but it is not what you are talking about. elcorso 1 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: again, i would like to see if crc errors can be increased by injecting noise 25 minutes ago, PeterSt said: The answer is Yes. So if crc errors can be increased by injecting noise, then, in a non-optimal solution (unlike yours), then it is feasible that there can be many crc errors dependent on how much noise in the system. Cleaning noise is not always cheap...i see some threads talking about using Paul Hynes power supplies costing thousands. If noise can be isolated by running fiber between server and dac, this can be done very inexpensively comparatively.....not everyone has a lot of money. Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 34 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: archimago found no errors with a $10 belkin cable and even with 50' extension cable... 22 minutes ago, PeterSt said: Same here, if that is what you like to hear. Why is it so that a single USB cable with different shielding options sounds totally different for each of such a configuration ? I would love to hear your answer...i don't know so i would love to hear your answer...my guess is that it minimizes noise some how, because I still haven't heard that there is anything besides music and noise being transferred to the dac. Link to comment
PeterSt Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: So if crc errors can be increased by injecting noise, then, in a non-optimal solution (unlike yours) No. Only with flat tires. Take a break or a burn-out will be yours. Superdad 1 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Popular Post PeterSt Posted December 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: If noise can be isolated by running fiber between server and dac It is the greatest misconception that fiber isolates noise. Keep in mind: the noise is not there to begin with (no matter you have wet dreams over it). Any noise which is there (DAC side) is created there. This is how fiber sounds the worst of all - it creates the most noise because it requires the most processing (to convert back to copper). Have fun ! numlog and Superdad 1 1 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, PeterSt said: It is the greatest misconception that fiber isolates noise. Keep in mind: the noise is not there to begin with (no matter you have wet dreams over it). Why do people buy expensive power supplies like Paul hynes if there is no noise to begin with? Even you said you use lps in your server? So you are saying low power media converters have a lot of noise measured on them, like the one in picture? (more noise than a generic pc doing quad dsd upsampling w/stock ps?) Truly trying to learn, and am listening. My goal is to create optimal solution in very low budget, and am currently buying parts to create ethernet over fiber system, and using parts similar to ones suggested by Miska and Jabbr. PS- i would 'take a break' if people quit replying (smile)...i am way past burned out on topic and even asked Chris to delete it a couple of times... Link to comment
mansr Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 12 hours ago, sandyk said: Most recent DACs use an asynchronous sink coupled with an adaptive source (the host computer) ? Name one DAC using synchronous mode. Link to comment
yamamoto2002 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I have only one isochronous synchronous USB audio device (while technically this is not a DAC). Isochronous PCM data size = 48000Hz * 2ch * 2 bytes (16bit) / 1000 = 192 bytes / 1ms Sunday programmer since 1985 Developer of PlayPcmWin Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Beer, just buy some run flat tires and be happy beerandmusic 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 9 hours ago, mansr said: Name one DAC using synchronous mode. My understanding is that the USB inputs of earlier Oppo players such as my Oppo 103 weren't Async. However, I could be incorrect about this, Async was mentioned in the blurb for the 105. The discussion at the attached link by Graham Slee may be of interest to some. https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/isochronous-or-asynchronous_topic1887.html How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Teresa Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 14 hours ago, PeterSt said: ...The Lush USB cable we make, is not guaranteed beyond 3 meters and I actually don't like to sell even the 3 meters (ask @Teresa who owns (or owned) one of the two I ever put out). It deliberately voids the USB spec and thus this comes from it. Problem ? no, because it is anticipated... Yes, Peter I am still using your 3 meter Lush USB cable. ? In case anyone is interested in my listening impressions of it see USB audio cracked... finally! page 93 PeterSt 1 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
fas42 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 13 hours ago, beerandmusic said: Why do people buy expensive power supplies like Paul hynes if there is no noise to begin with? Even you said you use lps in your server? So you are saying low power media converters have a lot of noise measured on them, like the one in picture? (more noise than a generic pc doing quad dsd upsampling w/stock ps?) Truly trying to learn, and am listening. My goal is to create optimal solution in very low budget, and am currently buying parts to create ethernet over fiber system, and using parts similar to ones suggested by Miska and Jabbr. Your questioning is like asking whether a computer program is a better one if something arbitrarily, randomly alters a bit of the code to junk, and the user can't then see the program crashing. What you want is for the audio system to work correctly under all reasonable conditions, and the USB connection is part of that system. So, work towards getting optimal SQ with whatever you happen to own; deliberately 'sabotaging' part of it to see if it "sounds worse" is pointless, really ... Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 this thread needs some frame-shift mutations... beerandmusic and esldude 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, sandyk said: The discussion at the attached link by Graham Slee may be of interest to some. https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/isochronous-or-asynchronous_topic1887.html He's got the terminology all wrong (synchronous, asynchronous, and adaptive are all subtypes of isochronous endpoints). I wouldn't trust anything that man has to say. Arpiben and Rt66indierock 2 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, mansr said: He's got the terminology all wrong (synchronous, asynchronous, and adaptive are all subtypes of isochronous endpoints). I wouldn't trust anything that man has to say. Who can you trust if you can't even trust well known E.Es ?. ( He was originally a BBC Engineer before going into business for himself) How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 44 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: this thread needs some frame-shift mutations... This thread, like most threads, needs less mindless Ralf 11 gobbleydegook. They contribute NOTHING of value to the threads. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 if you are not capable of understanding something, sandman, just keep your yap shut beerandmusic 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, sandyk said: Who can you trust if you can't even trust well known E.Es ?. ( He was originally a BBC Engineer before going into business for himself) I don't care if he's the Pope himself. When he can't get basic terminology right, he loses all credibility. esldude and wgscott 2 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, mansr said: I don't care if he's the Pope himself. When he can't get basic terminology right, he loses all credibility. That wasn't my point. Misinformation is spread by many Professionals. It then comes down to who can you trust, or is it because you need to source this information from Professionals who work specifically in these areas, and aren't Electronic " Jack of All Trades" ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post yamamoto2002 Posted December 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, sandyk said: My understanding is that the USB inputs of earlier Oppo players such as my Oppo 103 weren't Async. However, I could be incorrect about this, Async was mentioned in the blurb for the 105. BDP-103 's all three Type-A USB ports support only USB Mass storage class devices such as USB memory and USB hard disk. those devices are bulk transfer, not isochronous transfer. BDP-103's DAC will work with its own local clock when sound source is placed on USB memory. BDP-105 have additional Type B USB port called "USB DAC" , it connect to PC and BDP-105 behaves as an USB DAC. it supports isochronous asynchronous transfer and BDP-105's DAC clock will be fed from local clock. If you use S/PDIF, TOSLINK or HDMI input, sender becomes clock master and receiver's (BDP-10x) audio DAC will operate as some sort of adaptive mode. pkane2001 and Kyhl 2 Sunday programmer since 1985 Developer of PlayPcmWin Link to comment
mansr Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, sandyk said: That wasn't my point. Misinformation is spread by many Professionals. It then comes down to who can you trust, or is it because you need to source this information from Professionals who work specifically in these areas, and aren't Electronic " Jack of All Trades" ? Regarding USB, the best source of information is the actual spec. It's free to download. yamamoto2002 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, yamamoto2002 said: BDP-103's DAC will work with its own local clock when sound source is placed on USB memory. Thanks for the explanation. I only use USB with my Oppo 103 from USB memory sticks, or occasionally a USB SSD. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 15 hours ago, PeterSt said: It is the greatest misconception that fiber isolates noise. Keep in mind: the noise is not there to begin with (no matter you have wet dreams over it). Any noise which is there (DAC side) is created there. This is how fiber sounds the worst of all - it creates the most noise because it requires the most processing (to convert back to copper). Proof that the fiberoptic (internet) does not isolate noise, rather lets it sail right through to our browser Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, jabbr said: Proof that the fiberoptic (internet) does not isolate noise, rather lets it sail right through to our browser And adds a little of it's own ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now