Gigabit ethernet fiber Media Converters

[beerandmusic]

Can you create a functional music player using a pc with 2 nics (one nic to a nas via a switch) and the other nic to a gigabit media converter to fiber and then to the 2nd gigabit media converter at the dac end?

 

And if so, wouldn't this minimize noise as much as possible?

 

And if not, what would be the "SIMPLEST" e.g. least hardware that similar can be accomplished.  (i know jabbr's clearfog to usb idea sounds great, but trying to minimize hardware and eliminate usb altogether if possible).

[jabbr]

The best way to do it is to get an SFP switch — SFP modules exist for RJ-45 copper if you prefer. Then use a single FMC as suggested in the optical network thread — one that accepts SFP module is most flexible.  Connect all your devices to switch using copper or fiber.

 

You don’t even absolutely need a fiber NIC for your PC.

[beerandmusic]

35 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The best way to do it is to get an SFP switch — SFP modules exist for RJ-45 copper if you prefer. Then use a single FMC as suggested in the optical network thread — one that accepts SPF module is most flexible.  Connect all your devices to switch using copper or fiber.

 

Are you saying like a switch that has for example 24 RJ45 and 2 SFP at the server end and then use the FMC at the dac end.

I want 2 separate nics on 2 different networks to separate traffic..i want the server and dac on one network separate from everything else.

 

i guess i could have 2 switches...not as though i don't have a dozen switches around here....just need to get SFP switch.

[Miska]

You don't need to have two separate networks or separate traffic. That will typically cause a lot of headache on routing tables...

 

I use just a single network. For some things I use separation with VLANs at the switch level, but that is for non-audio related things. (tagged switch-to-switch connections, untagged ports to clients)

 

[Superdad]

18 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

Can you create a functional music player using a pc with 2 nics (one nic to a nas via a switch) and the other nic to a gigabit media converter to fiber and then to the 2nd gigabit media converter at the dac end?

 

And if so, wouldn't this minimize noise as much as possible?

 

Just be careful about the power supply you use for the downstream end media converter.  If you use the SMPS they come with you will introduce AC leakage back into the copper Ethernet output, thus somewhat defeating the isolation gained by the optical fiber.  Ideally a battery or battery-like isolated supply.

[beerandmusic]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

You don't need to have two separate networks or separate traffic. That will typically cause a lot of headache on routing tables...

 

I use just a single network. For some things I use separation with VLANs at the switch level, but that is for non-audio related things. (tagged switch-to-switch connections, untagged ports to clients)

 

 

If you have a lot of network traffic from the internet, couldn't this possibly cause collisions and retries, that could be avoided by having your server and dac on their own dedicated network? 

[beerandmusic]

54 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Just be careful about the power supply you use for the downstream end media converter.  If you use the SMPS they come with you will introduce AC leakage back into the copper Ethernet output, thus somewhat defeating the isolation gained by the optical fiber.  Ideally a battery or battery-like isolated supply.

so you wouldn't need to worry about the PS from the server or streamer or anything on the other side of the fiber, right?

So if you use the mfr spec'd ps for the dac and a decent ps for the media converter, you should be fine inre power?

 

I have read varying opinions inre necessity of LPS over SMPS ....another something for me to look at closer, but either way, power on other side of fiber shouldn't matter, right?  (seems a lot cheaper to buy a fiber network than a $2K PS) and probably cleaner too....??

[jabbr]

31 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

If you have a lot of network traffic from the internet, couldn't this possibly cause collisions and retries, that could be avoided by having your server and dac on their own dedicated network? 

 

If you have a reasonably good switch, it should allow 1 Gbe bandwidth between server & DAC connections and not interfered with by bandwidth on other ports. No benefit to separate networks. Just get a switch that you can plug in and forget about.

[Miska]

These are about cheapest decent unmanaged switches that have SFP slots in some models:

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/gs1100_series.shtml?t=p

And have all the mandatory features supported.

 

Just don't get the cheapest 10-port model, specs look like too high heat production and power consumption plus external PSU.

 

[Ralf11]

the -24 is $50 to $120

 

who wants to explain how to hook it up?

 

" which PS to order for the end point?

[beerandmusic]

9 minutes ago, Miska said:

These are about cheapest decent unmanaged switches that have SFP slots in some models:

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/gs1100_series.shtml?t=p

And have all the mandatory features supported.

 

Just don't get the cheapest 10-port model, specs look like too high heat production and power consumption plus external PSU.

 

Zyxel...wow i haven't heard that name since i used to be a sysop of a BBS system back in the 80s...they were the best modem to get at the time for operating a BBS until US robotics came along.

 

Thanks....i was contemplating a used cisco enterprise switch, but didn't want something that big, so that may be a goood plan.

[Miska]

...and if you want something fancier, my personal preference goes to:

https://www.hpe.com/us/en/product-catalog/networking/networking-switches/pip.overview.hpe-officeconnect-1920s-24g-2sfp-switch.1009690317.html

 

Which still doesn't cost arm and leg, but needs some configuration unlike the Zyxel GS1100-series unmanaged one.

 

[beerandmusic]

23 minutes ago, Miska said:

These are about cheapest decent unmanaged switches that have SFP slots in some models:

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/gs1100_series.shtml?t=p

And have all the mandatory features supported.

 

Just don't get the cheapest 10-port model, specs look like too high heat production and power consumption plus external PSU.

 

what sfp modules?

 

[beerandmusic]

20 hours ago, jabbr said:

The best way to do it is to get an SFP switch

 

I am serious about doing this, but I am curious, what is advantage of buying a switch over just connecting one of these modules to an existing switch via an enet cable? 

[jabbr]

less clutter

[Miska]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

what sfp modules?

 

I don't have any particular preference on those, just something that fits the fiber....

 

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, jabbr said:

less clutter

 

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

I don't have any particular preference on those, just something that fits the fiber....

 

thanks......

[beerandmusic]

20 hours ago, Miska said:

These are about cheapest decent unmanaged switches that have SFP slots in some models:

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/gs1100_series.shtml?t=p

And have all the mandatory features supported.

 

Just don't get the cheapest 10-port model, specs look like too high heat production and power consumption plus external PSU.

 

 

I was very close to buying an enterprise cisco gigabit sfp switch (cisco 3560 G SERIES), but decided it likely would be a noisy switch (fan) so I decided on 2 of these...price hard to beat (taiwanese special)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Open-Slot-Cat5e-Copper-Ports/dp/B078LW6B9F/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1543250332&sr=8-14&keywords=ad-net+converter

 

Anyway, How would one measure the noise that may exist on the conversion back to copper at the dac end and even know if the el-cheapo ps is fine or not?  e.g. what is acceptable that would not affect the DAC?

 

[beerandmusic]

22 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

the -24 is $50 to $120

 

who wants to explain how to hook it up?

 

" which PS to order for the end point?

where did you see zyxel 24 gigabit switch (WITH SFP PORT) for $50-$120?

 

nvm...found one the lesser expensive ones did not have sfp

did you ever find out a ps for endpoint?

but this seems like great deal here....i ordered this one instead of the other one.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1009115-REG/zyxel_gs1100_24_34_ports_gigabit_rackmountable_switch.html/?ap=y&gclid=CjwKCAiA0O7fBRASEiwAYI9QAuHQOgQijxyZCIiauxiecMDJFrjVCe-LOUBI_9WhIt_F9LGvKOpE_xoCxSoQAvD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

 

 

[jabbr]

On 11/25/2018 at 2:50 PM, Ralf11 said:

the -24 is $50 to $120

 

who wants to explain how to hook it up?

 

" which PS to order for the end point?

 

Get 2 SFP modules: https://www.fs.com/products/75332.html

Get a cable: https://www.fs.com/products/41730.html

 

Plug the SFPs onto the cable. Plug one SFP into the switch and the other into the endpoint (device or FMC). Plug the rest of your stuff into the switch (its not managed so plug and play).

 

PSU: get a 5V battery and a USB to 2.1mm cable. Does it sound better than the SMPS? If yes, either use it or get a cheap LPS like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-65VA-Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-Power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-etc/121970182193?hash=item1c65fd4831:g:VCsAAOSwT6pV3oqJ:rk:12:pf:0 or something like it (I don't use this but look for r-core).

 

There will be infinite debates on PSUs, but first try a battery and if the SMPS sounds like the battery, using a fancy supply in your system is unlikely to make a difference for you.

[Miska]

And once again, do NOT use shielded cables (like STP) between networking gear and audio equipment!

 

[wklie]

On 11/25/2018 at 7:11 AM, beerandmusic said:

what would be the "SIMPLEST" e.g. least hardware that similar can be accomplished.

 

This is the simplest in terms of component count (ignoring cost):

 

NAS - (Ethernet cable) - SFP Ethernet Switch (e.g. Cisco SG112-24 Compact ~ USD99) with SFP module - (LC-LC duplex fiber) - Lumin X1 with SFP module

 

Edit: I think this Cisco switch is fanless.

[beerandmusic]

10 minutes ago, wklie said:

 

This is the simplest in terms of component count (ignoring cost):

 

NAS - (Ethernet cable) - SFP Ethernet Switch (e.g. Cisco SG112-24 Compact ~ USD99) with SFP - (LC-LC duplex fiber) - Lumin X1 with SFP

are you sure you got part# correct for Cisco SG112-24

That lumin i am sure would sound GOOD!  wish i could afford one....i contemplated the D1.

[beerandmusic]

3 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

are you sure you got pn right on Cisco SG112-24

That lumin i am sure would sound GOOD!  wish i could afford one....i contemplated the D1.

 

5 minutes ago, wklie said:

 

This is the simplest in terms of component count (ignoring cost):

 

NAS - (Ethernet cable) - SFP Ethernet Switch (e.g. Cisco SG112-24 Compact ~ USD99) with SFP - (LC-LC duplex fiber) - Lumin X1 with SFP

 

Also, why SFP LC?  I see both LC and SX recommended?

[wklie]

5 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

are you sure you got pn right on Cisco SG112-24

 

https://www.amazon.com/SYSTEMS-24-Port-Gigabit-Switch-SG11224NA/dp/B00VPT8XSQ/

 

In Amazon it's SG11224NA but the actual shipped product is the Compact version instead of the wide rackmount version shown in the Amazon photo.  Note that it is End-of-Life and Cisco hardware support for it ends in December 31, 2020.

 

LC-LC refers to the connector type for the fiber required between two SFP modules.