Audiophile VS Musiphile - Your Thoughts?

[vmartell22]

9 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I would jettison all my gear and give up music completely if all I was allowed to listen to was Diana Krall, Shelby Lynne, and classic jazz.

 

 

 

Observation I made before - "female vocals" seems to be a constant... wonder why?... 

 

I also had the impression that when it comes to the classical audiophile,  only audiophile recordings, preferably new,  state of the art sound recordings were accepted, as opposed to older recordings... 

 

However - I realized that was a kind of prejudice; though I will say it was fed by the music reviews in many audiophile sites. However, that is an incorrect impression - upon visiting, for example, the music discussion forum in this site, I see that classical audiophiles in this forum seek most of the same recordings I seek, where interpretation and music making are king. 

 

Yes, it doesn't seem to reach all the way back to historical recordings, but, well, I know they are an acquired taste -  but classical audiophiles are.. hmm.. open enough that it made me see that I was mistaken. So, my apologies to the classical audiophiles.

 

Now - the popular music audiophile...  it seems to run the gamut from lovers of a particular kind of music, to people with very catholic taste and yes, to  people that seem to seek music just for the sake of exercising/testing/showing off the capabilities of the equipment - they seem to embody the "female vocals"/audio showroom music stereotype... 

 

Me? I am both a music lover and an audio enthusiast. VERY different from my musician friends. They tend to listen on the crappiest equipment and in a couple of cases they have no listening equipment at all - they experience music very differently from the way I do.

 

I call myself an audio enthusiast because, yes, I do not want listen on any crappy equipment setup; BUT, I distance myself simply because some of the things audiophiles believe re: sound can be pretty silly. I am also not obsessed about constantly upgrading or tweaking the setup.

 

So I think audio enthusiast works.  

 

I read somewhere that if you like all kinds of music you don't care enough about music. And I agree - I consider myself a music lover with a deep love for a few very deep genres ( that is, if you only liked ONE of those genres, you would be still be busy for a lifetime) but definitely I am not a "any good music in any genre" kind of guy, which is what I think "musicophile" means, in practical terms.

 

So music lover works.

 

Apologies for the meandering,  unfocused post - many things to consider...

 

v

[fas42]

12 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

I read somewhere that if you like all kinds of music you don't care enough about music. And I agree - I consider myself a music lover with a deep love for a few very deep genres ( that is, if you only liked ONE of those genres, you would be still be busy for a lifetime) but definitely I am not a "any good music in any genre" kind of guy, which is what I think "musicophile" means, in practical terms.

 

 

 

My experience is otherwise: the better the playback system, the more one understands the more "bizarre" variants in the music scene - as someone who appreciates the 'texture' of the sound, I find it particularly fascinating to experience the "vibe" of the music making - there's a thrill in "getting under the skin of the musician", so to speak.

 

Which is a long way of saying, any sort of music is fine by me!

[AudioDoctor]

I'll call myself a solid Melophile because I can get musical satisfaction from my car stereo, my home system, internet radio, etc... as long as the music is good, not how perfect it sounds. I guess my brain is possibly filling in the gaps, or I just don't care and enjoy the music. If music can't have an emotional impact on you unless it's perfect, I feel sorry for your soul.

[Rexp]

I enjoy certain music in the car too but the emotion in some music is only revealed by a high end system. I enjoy these subtleties and am prepared to pay to hear them, thats what makes me an audiophile. 

[AudioDoctor]

8 minutes ago, Rexp said:

I enjoy certain music in the car too but the emotion in some music is only revealed by a high end system. I enjoy these subtleties and am prepared to pay to hear them, thats what makes me an audiophile. 

 

I would argue that it isn't the music at all that is creating that reaction in that case. Maybe you just love your gear.

 

for example.  I don't need to listen to my SOs favorite slow dance song on my main home system to have an emotional reaction to it.

[vmartell22]

18 minutes ago, Rexp said:

I enjoy certain music in the car too but the emotion in some music is only revealed by a high end system. I enjoy these subtleties and am prepared to pay to hear them, thats what makes me an audiophile. 

 

hmm  - No

 

Emotion is in the music making - this:

 

https://www.discogs.com/Bruno-Walter-Conducts-Mahler-Vienna-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Symphony-No-9-In-D-Minor/release/9618396

 

is one of the most searing accounts of the symphony - and given that is a 1939 recording,  mid-fi, audiophile-fi or unnecessarily expensive-fi,  it won't matter.

 

Again emotion is in the music making - I remember seeing a video of the Concertgebouw principal flute talking about a Daphnis & Chloe performance he was in - the system was a crappy consumer grade system,  the kind that used to show up in Best Buy at around $400 bucks or less. Perfectly able to talk about and point out the details of the performance - not to mention the emotion in his voice. I think this is included in a documentary about the Concertgebouw that came out in the early 2000s.

 

No need to be "prepared to pay" for that - you don't need that much.

 

v

 

 

 

[Rexp]

11 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I would argue that it isn't the music at all that is creating that reaction in that case. Maybe you just love your gear.

 

for example.  I don't need to listen to my SOs favorite slow dance song on my main home system to have an emotional reaction to it.

Of course we all have music we're emotionally attached to but new music can move you too. 

[The_K-Man]

7 hours ago, audiobomber said:

I don't know if the sound men are functionally deaf, incompetent, inattentive or a combination of these. I've been to a lot of concerts where there was no excuse for what we heard.

 

As with the recording side of the music business, the live side is also customer-service oriented: give the client(in this case the live venue operators, church officials, wherever) what they want, or sell them what they think, or can be convinced of what, they want.

 

Our goals as end-users, end-consumers, is to not part with our money in the cases you have brought forward.  This includes not buying the physical media or attending venues/concerts where the only criteria is LOUD.

[The_K-Man]

6 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I'll call myself a solid Melophile because I can get musical satisfaction from my car stereo, my home system, internet radio, etc... as long as the music is good, not how perfect it sounds. I guess my brain is possibly filling in the gaps, or I just don't care and enjoy the music. If music can't have an emotional impact on you unless it's perfect, I feel sorry for your soul.

 

You and I = separated at birth.  The essence of what I'm saying.

 

And to paraphrase someone on here who said that music lovers listen on "crap":  Come to my place and tell me my 80w per ch. JVC receiver and DB Plus speakers are "crap" over the crescendos of the William Tell Overture - or the refrains of 'Sometimes A Fantasy' by Joel!

[Daccord]

31 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

Our goals as end-users, end-consumers, is to not part with our money in the cases you have brought forward.  This includes not buying the physical media or attending venues/concerts where the only criteria is LOUD.

 

Live performance is how most musicians earn their living. Without a paying audience you're going to run out of melo to phile.

[The_K-Man]

47 minutes ago, Daccord said:

 

Live performance is how most musicians earn their living. Without a paying audience you're going to run out of melo to phile.

 

But did you understand the context in which I commented?

 

The context of sheer loudness.

 

If that requires audience members to don earplugs or other forms of sound suppression to be able to tolerate the show, then something is wrong.

 

It is unfortunate that loudness is the prime criteria at live performances, whether by request of the performers themselves, by request of the venue providing the experience, or as someone else recently suggested, hearing-impaired or otherwise loudness-driven sound engineers.

 

Our biggest vote, one equally important to the one on election day, is the vote via our wallets.

[Daccord]

23 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

But did you understand the context in which I commented?

 

The context of sheer loudness.

 

If that requires audience members to don earplugs or other forms of sound suppression to be able to tolerate the show, then something is wrong.

 

It is unfortunate that loudness is the prime criteria at live performances, whether by request of the performers themselves, by request of the venue providing the experience, or as someone else recently suggested, hearing-impaired or otherwise loudness-driven sound engineers.

 

Our biggest vote, one equally important to the one on election day, is the vote via our wallets.

 

Sorry, I missed the "largely" in your opening post:

 

Audiophile: In love with how music sounds on their equipment.

Musiphile: Loves how music itself sounds - on any equipment.

I place myself largely in the latter category.  How about you?

 

Yes, concerts in bars are way too loud and compressed, but so are movies, and years of consistent wallet-voting on my part has done nothing to improve the movie theatre experience. I saw Soft Machine at a bar a few weeks ago. I knew it would be a foam earplug event, but it was a fun evening with friends and some great musicians. I think I lean to the first category. If you're avoiding live music because the sound isn't to your taste, it's a stretch to call yourself a melophile. However, I understand your original point, and frankly I'll be very surprised if anyone pops into the thread and confesses that their primary use of recorded music is testing their audio system (even though many of us know people like that).

[The_K-Man]

30 minutes ago, Daccord said:

 

Sorry, I missed the "largely" in your opening post:

 

Audiophile: In love with how music sounds on their equipment.

Musiphile: Loves how music itself sounds - on any equipment.

I place myself largely in the latter category.  How about you?

 

Yes, concerts in bars are way too loud and compressed, but so are movies, and years of consistent wallet-voting on my part has done nothing to improve the movie theatre experience. I saw Soft Machine at a bar a few weeks ago. I knew it would be a foam earplug event, but it was a fun evening with friends and some great musicians. I think I lean to the first category. If you're avoiding live music because the sound isn't to your taste, it's a stretch to call yourself a melophile. However, I understand your original point, and frankly I'll be very surprised if anyone pops into the thread and confesses that their primary use of recorded music is testing their audio system (even though many of us know people like that).

 

"If you're avoiding live music because the

sound isn't to your taste, it's a stretch to call

yourself a melophile."

 

 

Let's take apart the core of this statement ladies & gentlemen:

 

"...because the sound isn't too your taste.."

 

The sound of the instruments?  The sound of the vocals?  The sound of the Sound Reinforcement itself? The acoustics of the venue - be it indoor or outdoors?  Which shall it be, Mr. Daccord?

 

Again - CONTEXT.  My context is loudness, presentation volume.  The music itself might be perfectly composed and exquisitely performed.  The SR might even have excellent frequency response,  both in covered range and evenness thereof.

 

But once more, if myself and others must resort to protective measures(ear plugs, putting greater distance between ourselves and the stage, etc.)  to tolerate the volume level at which it is presented, let alone be able to enjoy the artwork and to empathize with the artist(s), then it's just TOO. DAMN. LOUD.

 

Learn to separate being a melophile/musiphile/whatever from incurring temporary or permanent hearing loss.  The two should not be accepted as part and parcel. 

 

Period.

[Daccord]

11 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

TOO. DAMN. LOUD.

 

I agree

[crenca]

"TOO. DAMN. LOUD."

 

 

This is not restricted merely to the contemporary live performance either.  A couple of months ago my wife and I attended a dress/tux "gala" fundraiser for my daughters school at $250 a plate minimum.  This means the crowd is older, successful, etc.  Quartet playing, glasses clinking, fine conversation....but the 'wedding DJ' with cheap  PA  (guaranteed 10% distortion!) is lurking in the background.  Sure enough just at the end of desert it fires up.  90% of the crowd just look at each other with numb expressions - how can we talk or even hear ourselves think?  Sure, a few get up and bump and grind it, but that vast majority are obligated to suffer.  Well not me, I insisted we leave.  My wife bitches a bit but admits it was intolerable...

[Kal Rubinson]

I went to a wedding where they provided ear-plugs at each table setting!  How is that for an admission of intent?  Between courses, sound levels were in excess of 95dB so we had to spend those intervals outside the ballroom.  

 

At another event, blue-tooth earphones were provided for the dancers and the rest of us were spared.  Moreover, we were often entertained by the antics of the dancers, gyrating feverishly in silence.

 

[rodrigaj]

"TOO DAMN LOUD"

 

My wife, her large family and her nieces and nephews weddings:

 

The wedding receptions after the ceremonies have gotten so intolerably loud thanks to these DJ driven events. It's what the kids think of as fun.

 

I leave.

 

The last one, we spent $2000 to travel to Boston. Never again. People were complaining the next day of ringing in their ears.

 

 

[davide256]

 I like milk. I don't like spoiled milk. As long as the system doesn't have a hint of "spoiled milk" I'm fine. I don't get into paranoia

over "is this the best possible milk" in home listening, I  enjoy it for the experience.  I may compare the  "milk" from better "cows"

from time to time, can readily remember their differences  but I don't let that sour my enjoyment at home.

 

 

[Summit]

I’m an Audiophile. Maybe not a politically correct answer, but that’s how it is. I of course love music, but am kind of spoiled, accustomed or whatever to listen to music live or on pretty good sounded systems. I mean used to listen to music that doesn’t make you think that they play on drums made of paper, trumpets that sounds like it they are made of tin cans or a grand piano that sound like my nephew toy piano. I can of course also listen to music in my car and I have some earbuds that I listen to while traveling on busses or trains. The difference is how I listen to music and to what type of music. At home, on my stereo, I will only listen fully focused and I do nothing else at the same time. I can’t really listen fully focused like that if the SQ is not good enough.

[AudioDoctor]

I agree about weddings being too loud. I am planning either a small string ensemble or small jazzy band at mine and not a DJ...

[Allan F]

On 11/18/2018 at 10:17 AM, Samuel T Cogley said:

I always thought that I was an "audiophile" until I realized that most who consider themselves audiophiles listen to what I can only describe as Audiophile Music.

 

I agree that it describes some but, really, most?! Would you care to tell us what evidence led you to this realization apart from your personal opinion.

[gmgraves]

16 hours ago, fas42 said:

Yes, keep it all away from classical performances - but there was one situation, before I got my first good dose of playback quality, where it "did help": at the time I was acquainted with a well known classical guitar player, and at a concert where he played a composition requiring orchestral backing, he was somewhat drowned out by the intensity of their playing. He knew this, and asked if it made sense to get some slight SR; I agreed, and just using a judicious amount made all the difference ...

 

Yeah, I can see the need for a amplifier on a solo guitar playing alongside a full symphony orchestra. It's too bad, but a fine Spanish Classical guitar is simply not able to play all that loud. When playing something like Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez, the guitar can get overwhelmed by the orchestra quite easily. If it's a question of not hearing the solo instrument al all, then by all means a single microphone in front of the guitar and a simple amplifier to make the guitar audible to the entire audience is more-or-less de riguer. 

[crenca]

13 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Yeah, I can see the need for a amplifier on a solo guitar playing alongside a full symphony orchestra. It's too bad, but a fine Spanish Classical guitar is simply not able to play all that loud. When playing something like Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez, the guitar can get overwhelmed by the orchestra quite easily. If it's a question of not hearing the solo instrument al all, then by all means a single microphone in front of the guitar and a simple amplifier to make the guitar audible to the entire audience is more-or-less de riguer. 

 

A couple of years ago my semi-local symphony premiered a modern composition that had a very jazzy movement, so a jazz drum kit, bass, etc..  They had to mic one of the regular double bass players for the movement however as he had to play jazz style.  I single mic and bass amp was enough, and the whole thing sounded pretty good.  The music/piece itself was not memorable, but they pulled it off well... 

[Musicophile]

6 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I agree about weddings being too loud. I am planning either a small string ensemble or small jazzy band at mine and not a DJ...

We had just that at ours. A pianist during the reception, a string ensemble during dinner, and a Jazz trio for the dance. Was just beautiful. The “DJ” only got to work after 1h30 pm when it didn’t matter any more. 

[ARQuint]

13 hours ago, crenca said:

"TOO. DAMN. LOUD."

 

 

This is not restricted merely to the contemporary live performance either.  A couple of months ago my wife and I attended a dress/tux "gala" fundraiser for my daughters school at $250 a plate minimum.  This means the crowd is older, successful, etc.  Quartet playing, glasses clinking, fine conversation....but the 'wedding DJ' with cheap  PA  (guaranteed 10% distortion!) is lurking in the background.  Sure enough just at the end of desert it fires up.  90% of the crowd just look at each other with numb expressions - how can we talk or even hear ourselves think?  Sure, a few get up and bump and grind it, but that vast majority are obligated to suffer.  Well not me, I insisted we leave.  My wife bitches a bit but admits it was intolerable...

 

I'm proud of myself for thinking of, and acting on, the following approach—and I attribute the idea to my devotion to multichannel music.

 

A few years ago, my daughter had her wedding reception in a way cool warehouse space in NYC. For the party, she had a friend who would DJ but was happy to let me supply the sound system. Instead of two of those tripod-mounted Pro Sound monstrosities, I rented four—and had them positioned at the four corners of the dance floor, facing inward. They were played at a volume that was invigorating to the dancers but not conversation-obliterating out in the room. Everyone was happy, especially the guy who paid for it.

 

I can't be the only person to have thought of this, but I've never seen it at anybody else's wedding, bar mitzvah, or prison-release party.

 

It's the same thing with multichannel playback in a typical domestic listening space: Because you have all those additional drivers moving all that additional air, plus a natural representation of space, it's not necessary to listen as loud to get an emotional connection to the music.

 

Andrew Quint

 

Senior Writer

The Absolute Sound