Possum Jenkins Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Pi use doesn't necessarily mean using its usb, there are a few i2s dacs which are pretty decent that slot on top, darko reviewed a few recently. Link to comment
qwak Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, beerandmusic said: OK, thanks for this information...yea, i never really looked at rpi solutions... curious why so many rpi users if they acknowledge it doesn't have great usb...and x86 is laying around free everywhere these days? is volumio the only linux distro w/web gui you know of that works on x86, as i personally don't want to look at going rpi unless there is an obvious reason over x86? Not sure about x86 with others than Volumio... My reasons why I like RPi (vs PC), first its very cheap - 35USD (+15for power + 15 for case), when you buy good HAT its 100-250 USD more, but still very reasonable price. 2. Its fanless - this is major point for me, I can put all my music on SD card and use it as server (and now Volumio can play Tidal directly- great) 3. it consume very little energy 4. I like to tinker :), try different OS, sometimes I use it as movie player...you can change it to tube headamp or whatever...its like LEGO Its not perfect solution for everyone (it has DIY look, some knowledge of computers and linux is very useful) but with those 502DAC or Allo HATs one can have serious sound quality, for reasonable price in very small and quite form factor...And Im very interested how far can this be pushed- few years ago there was only basic HATs and software (for “audiophile” playback) was lacking seriously. There is constant development there, both in hardware and software side...But If you are happy with x86 and dont find any benefits with those HATs thats perfectly fine...I would not say that RPi platform is better than x86 platform for music, it just different way of doing it. Im looking forward to your findings about Volumio on x86. BTW when on x86, did you ever tried Roon? While Im fan of Volumio, Roon is in different game - not in sound quality department but in the way how it can transform little bit dull digital playback in to fun (with its metadata, reviews, artist profiles, social networks and media connection...Im not aware of any other software that offer this kind of experience ) franz159 1 Link to comment
audiobomber Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, qwak said: how it can transform little bit dull digital playback in to fun (with its metadata, reviews, artist profiles, social networks and media connection...Im not aware of any other software that offer this kind of experience ) ?My Chrome browser does all this, especially when I go to allmusic.com or wikipedia. beerandmusic 1 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
davide256 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 played with moode and volumio on RPI3b+... my experience= "boring" AL Roon endpoint with RPI 3 is a better story if you overclock it... otherwise it doesn't have the horsepower Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Bikutoru Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 May be I like "boring" when it comes to all of hardware, my RPI3(not even +) with Volumio does its thing for the last 3 years, sounds great. I have tried a few much more expensive solutions but every time came back to my simple Volumio RPI3. Have tried Roon with it, again no overclocking here, it sounded just as great and played any rate I sent to it without a hitch, even tried upsampling in Roon to 768Khz, the highest PCM my dac supports with USB input, no hiccups there either. beerandmusic 1 my > overly > fancy > system > with > directional > interconnects > powered > by > ego & linear fusion reactor Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 hours ago, qwak said: Not sure about x86 with others than Volumio... My reasons why I like RPi (vs PC), first its very cheap - 35USD (+15for power + 15 for case), when you buy good HAT its 100-250 USD more, but still very reasonable price. 2. Its fanless - this is major point for me, I can put all my music on SD card and use it as server (and now Volumio can play Tidal directly- great) 3. it consume very little energy 4. I like to tinker :), try different OS, sometimes I use it as movie player...you can change it to tube headamp or whatever...its like LEGO Its not perfect solution for everyone (it has DIY look, some knowledge of computers and linux is very useful) but with those 502DAC or Allo HATs one can have serious sound quality, for reasonable price in very small and quite form factor...And Im very interested how far can this be pushed- few years ago there was only basic HATs and software (for “audiophile” playback) was lacking seriously. There is constant development there, both in hardware and software side...But If you are happy with x86 and dont find any benefits with those HATs thats perfectly fine...I would not say that RPi platform is better than x86 platform for music, it just different way of doing it. Im looking forward to your findings about Volumio on x86. BTW when on x86, did you ever tried Roon? While Im fan of Volumio, Roon is in different game - not in sound quality department but in the way how it can transform little bit dull digital playback in to fun (with its metadata, reviews, artist profiles, social networks and media connection...Im not aware of any other software that offer this kind of experience ) Thanks for sharing...I can see that rpi may be for many. I personally am not a tinkerer. My x86 boxes are fanless (vivo vm60 i5, have about 6 of them here). I have looked at and even tried roon...it is not for me...i like using file browsing and roon does not support that...and not willing to pay subscription or $500, but i understand it may be for many. I use foobar, jriver, audiogate, HEOS, and HQP....i have put volumio on my "todo" list. For SQ, i like audiogate and HQP, for gui, i prefer the other 2. For alexa support, i use HEOS. Most people that have tried roon and HQP prefer SQ of HQP, and configure ROON intfc to work with HQP for improved SQ...again ROON is not my cup of tea, and I certainly wouldn't buy into subscription based or high price. If they ever supported ALEXA AND file browsing, then it would be worth the $500, but not before then. Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Bikutoru said: May be I like "boring" when it comes to all of hardware, my RPI3(not even +) with Volumio does its thing for the last 3 years, sounds great. I have tried a few much more expensive solutions but every time came back to my simple Volumio RPI3. Have tried Roon with it, again no overclocking here, it sounded just as great and played any rate I sent to it without a hitch, even tried upsampling in Roon to 768Khz, the highest PCM my dac supports with USB input, no hiccups there either. I prefer 'boring' too inre music player...i really think i will enjoy volumio...have you ever tried recent versions on x86? When i download the software on my windows 10 box, do i make a bootable usb that can then be installed on ssd of a new box that i boot into from the usb? Probably takes just an hour to set up? Can you control it from it's desktop too, or only remote? I understand it likely be much better to use as headless, but just curious if i have the option? Link to comment
firedog Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 A used microRendu? Jud 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
qwak Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 8 hours ago, audiobomber said: ?My Chrome browser does all this, especially when I go to allmusic.com or wikipedia. For me its not the same experience but fair point... Link to comment
Cebolla Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 The OP didn't mention audio formats, resolutions, etc - so for up tp 24-bit/96kHz LPCM, the $30 (optical audio cable extra) Google Chromecast Audio deserves a mention. The Logitech Media Server software can provide the CCA with the required web browser controller user interface, as well its audio sources (including from internet radio & online services such as Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify & Deezer), via the Chromecast bridge LMS plugin & relevant online music service LMS plugin(s). The Chromecast bridge plugin can even overcome the CCA's issue of lack of gapless playback support, if you engage the plugin's transcoder with the Flow option set to provide a continuous lossless FLAC stream. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
DuckToller Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 hours ago, beerandmusic said: I prefer 'boring' too inre music player...i really think i will enjoy volumio...have you ever tried recent versions on x86? When i download the software on my windows 10 box, do i make a bootable usb that can then be installed on ssd of a new box that i boot into from the usb? Probably takes just an hour to set up? Can you control it from it's desktop too, or only remote? I understand it likely be much better to use as headless, but just curious if i have the option? All you need to know about Volumio on X86 ...http://bfy.tw/L5Ap Good luck, Tom Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Cebolla said: The OP didn't mention audio formats, resolutions, etc - so for up tp 24-bit/96kHz LPCM, the $30 (optical audio cable extra) Google Chromecast Audio deserves a mention. +1 can't beat the price.... Link to comment
Bikutoru Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 hours ago, beerandmusic said: +1 can't beat the price.... Chromecast Audio supposedly has a really awesome implementation as a Roon endpoint with optical out. Without Roon it does not support gapless playback. If you like classical music it might be a really bad experience. I have not tried Volumio on x86. As far as control, it is mainly controlled though a web page so it can be done on x86 if it has a monitor, there are mobile control apps too . As far as playback, Volumio has a few modes. It can play local files, play files on a NAS with a samba mount, play from DLNA server somewhere or have music pushed to it with AirPlay and as I already mentioned, you can install Roon bridge on the same RPI, but it has really nothing to do with Volumio. Roon install has to be done with logging on to it with ssh and executing a couple of commands. my > overly > fancy > system > with > directional > interconnects > powered > by > ego & linear fusion reactor Link to comment
franz159 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 10:06 PM, qwak said: From my experience, sound quality of Raspberry Pi streamer depend greatly on what HAT you use, as Dmitre mentioned 502 DAC is great (I haven't heard it personally). I like very much Digione Signature powered by batteries. If you plan to use straight path from raspberry USB to your DAC I dont think you will hear benefits compared to NUC... With great S/PDIF transport you should beat regular PC or NUC or even a lot of commercial streamers easily... Also it is very easy to change operating system in Raspberry Pi- you just swap micro SD card in few seconds- so you can very easily try Volumio, Mood audio, picore player, ropieee etc and choose one you like most. Volumio is great, probably best UI and feature set of all RPi systems - you can stream Tidal and Qobuz (but this is with 2,99€ subscription) but I was experiencing dropouts regularly with higher than CD quality streaming... So with Volumio you have best UI but regarding sound quality I would try picore player or Moode... Just FYI, MoodeAudio (now in version 4.3) supports direct stream from Tidal or Qobuz through upmpdcli and without the need to pay an extra 3€ monthly subscription. The "UI" for Tidal or Qobuz will be the one of the controller app you are going to chose (eg Linn Kazoo or Lumin App). You will use Moode UI directly for accessing your library, maybe through the album view ...or the pre-configured web radios (you may add yours) or maybe to pause/play or move to next/previous playlist item or change volume from the playback "cover view" These are all just examples... maybe have a look at moodeaudio.org for a better desc of all features asdf1000 1 Link to comment
franz159 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 10:31 PM, beerandmusic said: Most, if not all, would disagree with spdif...it reportedly has more jitter...it may be better if you have "noise issues" but my understanding is that it is not the ideal transmission method provided everything else is ok. I may try volumio anyway, because i like the idea of web interface!! plus it will also install on x86 hardware. I will see if i experience any issues with native DSD on x86 and volumio. You might have a look at these measurements for Allo DigiOne Signature https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-measurements-of-allo-digione-signature-and-diyinhk-pro3z.4660/ I'm not sure how it compares directly to other devices, but in my understanding, it shows that jitter is definitely not an issue on the Spdif output of this device Link to comment
franz159 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/17/2018 at 7:05 PM, beerandmusic said: ack, forget rune-audio...i just read last release was 2015...must have had a short life...but it did look promising? The web interface looks a lot like volumio...maybe they sold it to volumio, or joint effort with volumio? The interface resembles it too closely for it not to have a relationship between the two. I am sure volumio is still being developed as the pro-ject streamer was just recently made available for sale, and it is using volumio. Just for info, Volumio and Rune Audio derived from the same project (a group of people initially working together and they choosing different paths), Moode also derived from this work, as can b seen from Moode own contributors page (see Original Code): Contributions to moOde audio player User Interface @swizzle: moOde Adaptive UI and many other contribshttp://moodeaudio.org/forum/ Feature and Technical Walker Boyd, Brendan Pike: MPD/PHP configs for improved Library capacitydiyAudio moOde thread Steve Bennett: UPnP configurationdiyAudio moOde thread @Serverbaboon Ralf Braun: UPnP album art and metadata parsingdiyAudio moOde thread Bob Daggg: Clock radio and Playback history logdiyAudio moOde thread @DRONE7 Alan Finnie: Logarithmic volume control (pre-MPD 0.20 series)moOde Twitter Feed Dr. Panagiotis Karavitis: Playback panel with integrated PlaylistPart-Time Audiophile - Contributors Kent Reed: Numerous contributions to improve moOde and overall usabilitydiyAudio moOde thread @TheOldPresbyope Klaus Schulz: Numerous contributions for improved audio qualitysoundcheck's - audio@vise @lazybat: Inspiration for Album Panel, Chinese utf8 character filterhttps://github.com/moode-player/moode @jesset: arm64 detection and reportinghttps://github.com/moode-player/moode Mike Thornbury, Gordon Garrity: Access Point (AP) modediyAudio moOde thread @Zootalaws (Mike)http://iqaudio.com (Gordon) Sources and Configs Jean-Francois Dockes: upexplorer utilityhttp://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli Andreas Goetz: Moode3 Prototype, Coverart module, Airplay metadata engine and many other code improvementshttps://github.com/moodeaudio Rusty Hodge: founder of Soma FM, Soma APIhttp://somafm.com Yvon Landriault: Graphic Equalizer featureSelect from a variety of preset curves Clive Messer and Martin Sperl: Experimental Advanced Audio Kernel (4.4.y-simple branch)https://github.com/moodeaudio/linux Klaus Schulz: Adv Kernel builds, RT/LL audio tunings, Squeezelite, Bluetooth and many UI improvementssoundcheck's - audio@vise @Koda59: Moode OS Image BuilderdiyAudio Moode thread Richard Parslow: System config settings for keyboard and layout codesdiyAudio Moode thread Core Components Raspberry Pi by Eben Upton, Rob Mullins, Jack Lang, Alan Mycroft, David Braben, and Pete Lomashttps://www.raspberrypi.org/about Raspbian by Mike Thompson (mpthompson), Peter Green (plugwash) and the entire Raspberry Pi communityhttps://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianAbout Debian Linux created by Ian Murdock in 1993http://www.debian.org Auto-Shuffle by Josh Kunzhttps://github.com/Joshkunz/ashuffle BlueZ Bluetooth protocol stack by Johan Hedberghttp://www.bluez.org BlueZ ALSA backend by Arkadiusz Bokowyhttps://github.com/Arkq/bluez-alsa Bootstrap by @mdo and @fathttp://twitter.github.io/bootstrap Bootstrap-select by caseyjholhttp://silviomoreto.github.io/bootstrap-select Eq10X2 Graphic Equalizer by Tim Goetzehttp://quitte.de/dsp/caps.html#EqFA4p EqFA4p Parametric Equalizer by Tim Goetzehttp://quitte.de/dsp/caps.html#Eq10 Crossfeed by Boris Mikhaylovhttp://bs2b.sourceforge.net Dnsmasq by Simon Kellyhttp://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html Flat UI by Designmodohttp://designmodo.github.io/Flat-UI Font Awesome by Dave Gandyhttp://fontawesome.io Hostapd by Jouni Malinenhttp://http://w1.fi/hostapd/ jQuery Adaptive Backgrounds by Brian Gonzalezhttps://github.com/briangonzalez/jquery.adaptive-backgrounds.js jQuery Countdown by Keith Woodhttp://keith-wood.name/countdown.html jQuery Knob by Anthony Terrienhttps://github.com/aterrien/jQuery-Knob jQuery Lazy Load by Mike Tuupolahttp://www.appelsiini.net/projects/lazyload jQuery MD5 by Sebastian Tschanhttp://pajhome.org.uk/crypt/md5https://blueimp.net jQuery Pines Notify (pnotify) by Hunter Perrinhttps://github.com/sciactive/pnotify jQuery scrollTo by Ariel Fleslerhttp://flesler.blogspot.it/2007/10/jqueryscrollto.html jQuery TouchSwipe by Matt Brysonhttp://www.github.com/mattbryson Lato-Fonts by Åukasz Dziedzichttp://www.latofonts.com/lato-free-fonts MiniDLNA by Justin Maggardhttps://github.com/azatoth/minidlna MPD by Max Kellermann and Warren Dukeshttp://www.musicpd.org MPD Audio Scrobbler by Henrik Friedrichsenhttps://github.com/hrkfdn/mpdas PHP by the PHP Teamhttp://php.net Qix color-convert by Heather Arthur and Josh Junonhttps://github.com/Qix-/color-convert Shairport-sync by Mike Bradyhttps://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync Shellinabox by Markus Gutschke, fork by Luka Krajgerhttps://github.com/shellinabox/shellinabox SQLite v3 by the SQLite Teamhttp://www.sqlite.org Squeezelite by Adrian Smith and Ralph Irvinghttps://github.com/ralph-irving/squeezelite Udisks-glue by Fernando Tarlá Cardoso Lemoshttps://github.com/fernandotcl/udisks-glue Upmpdcli by Jean-Francois Dockeshttp://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/ WiringPi GPIO access library by Gordon Hendersonhttp://wiringpi.com Original Code Andrea Coiutti: WebUI design, HTML/CSS/JS coding Simone De Gregori: PHP/MPD/JS coding and OS optimizationshttp://runeaudio.com Michelangelo Guarise: RaspyFi/Volumio enhancements, OS image build - One and a half year of work more than Raspyfi's WebUI made by ACX and Orion - Work has been performed by me, Jotak and other Volumio community membershttp://volumio.org Joel Takvorian (jotak? Library Loader and Panel v1volumio forum post Jan Sandred (jansandred? Radio Station PLS Files (original set)volumio forum post szczemirek 1 Link to comment
franz159 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/28/2018 at 1:51 PM, Cebolla said: The OP didn't mention audio formats, resolutions, etc - so for up tp 24-bit/96kHz LPCM, the $30 (optical audio cable extra) Google Chromecast Audio deserves a mention. The Logitech Media Server software can provide the CCA with the required web browser controller user interface, as well its audio sources (including from internet radio & online services such as Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify & Deezer), via the Chromecast bridge LMS plugin & relevant online music service LMS plugin(s). The Chromecast bridge plugin can even overcome the CCA's issue of lack of gapless playback support, if you engage the plugin's transcoder with the Flow option set to provide a continuous lossless FLAC stream. ...and LMS is running where? To my understanding, you should factor in the price of another SBC for that (say a raspberry or the like) Link to comment
Cebolla Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 The OP did actually state that a computer would be used at all times to control the device (ideally via a web browser) - so the implication is that LMS would run on that computer. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
4est Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 5:26 PM, Possum Jenkins said: Pi use doesn't necessarily mean using its usb, there are a few i2s dacs which are pretty decent that slot on top, darko reviewed a few recently. I2S is available directly off the board too, although it should get reclocked somehow. Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
Cebolla Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 13 hours ago, franz159 said: Just FYI, MoodeAudio (now in version 4.3) supports direct stream from Tidal or Qobuz through upmpdcli and without the need to pay an extra 3€ monthly subscription. The "UI" for Tidal or Qobuz will be the one of the controller app you are going to chose (eg Linn Kazoo or Lumin App). The upmpdcli TIDAL & Qobuz access works perfectly with Linn Kazoo. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Lumin app - the upmdpcli's 'direct stream' / Openhome Streaming Services (for TIDAL & Qobuz access) feature needs to be switched off, otherwise the Lumin app cannot see upmdpcli (& therefore any devce that uses it, such as MoodeAudio) for some reason yet to established by its developer. So you cannot use the Lumin app's normal TIDAL & Qobuz screen views with upmpdcli and are restricted to the more cumbersome upmpdcli's (indirect) online services media server feature. BTW, did you factor in the potential cost of the hand held device, for running apps like Lumin, that the OP clearly wasn't happy using anyway? ☺️ We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
franz159 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 21 hours ago, Cebolla said: The upmpdcli TIDAL & Qobuz access works perfectly with Linn Kazoo. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Lumin app - the upmdpcli's 'direct stream' / Openhome Streaming Services (for TIDAL & Qobuz access) feature needs to be switched off, otherwise the Lumin app cannot see upmdpcli (& therefore any devce that uses it, such as MoodeAudio) for some reason yet to established by its developer. So you cannot use the Lumin app's normal TIDAL & Qobuz screen views with upmpdcli and are restricted to the more cumbersome upmpdcli's (indirect) online services media server feature. BTW, did you factor in the potential cost of the hand held device, for running apps like Lumin, that the OP clearly wasn't happy using anyway? ☺️ Touché ??? Link to comment
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